At the time that worked out in that way where that every German citizen had to have a labor booklet. According to regulations he was only allowed to be used at a specific profession which was contained in that booklet.
Now, if somebody's labour booklet, which was issued before he entered the concentration camp, showed that he was a worker or a messenger on a bycycle or delivery boy then he was used as such regardless of the fact that he was trained at something else in the concentration camp. Therefore, all the things which he learned in the concentration camp were lost. That was the reason why we carried out those negotiations with the Reich Labor Ministry at the time. The difficulties which afflicted inmate labor assignments were, first of all, caused by the fact that Commanders transferred trained specialists and used them for their own purposes, furthermore, a disinclination on the part of the Commandants to help out Reich industries, etc. Those difficulties were set down in a memorandum and sent to Pohl. Pohl, thereupon, took the following measures by going through Himmler that a special order be sent to the Commander advising the Commander on the importance of this training, so to say. That document was also introduced by the prosecution as Document NO-385, Exhibit 54 in Document Book No. 3.
Q. Witness, would you take a look at Document Book No. 16, please, and so take a look at document introduced as No. 427, which is contained on page 1 of the Organizational Chart therein. The exhibit number is 427, Your Honor, That is the first document in the book of No. 16.
A. I would like to look at the organizational chart on page 14 there. It is contained on page 14 of the German, page 13 of the English Document Books. I would like to discuss that chart. The Department which I joined at the time, was called the Department for Inmate Labor Assignment. The tasks of that Department was established in 1940, just exactly as they were to be developed, and as they were fixed in this organizational chart before me now. Approximately in October 1941 Scharnweber resigned from his position in the DEST. The soldier who was employed there on leave from the Army, had been called back to the Army, and the third civilian employee was in a sanitarium for "TBC." When Scharnweber resigned from his position I was appointed business manager, and I was told that I was in charge of that department; that I had to be in charge of that department. Thereupon we used German workers on those particular jobs at the time. We discussed those various things with the Department which thereupon was called the Labor Assignment Office, because Inmate Labor assignment, or, rather the form of Inmate Labor Assignment no longer applied. In this organizational chart for the Department of Inmate Labor Assignment is also contained the labor assignment for foreigners. I can not recall that foreigners were used anywhere in that Department after I joined. The racial German workers came much later, as I had mentioned before. In the Departmental Labor Assignment outside of the framework of this organizational chart, we worked on the program training of civilian apprentices, that is to say, young people who had been released from school to learn stonecutting, in other words, we devised to recruiting measures we worked on a program of accommodating of these young people and the Department took care of all these basic things.
Q. Witness, you are now holding Document Book No. 16 in your hands. Please take a look at Document NO 789, Exhibit No. 434, on page 31 of the German Document Book and page 32 of the English Document Book. I would like to ask you now about this exchange of correspondence which was introduced by the Prosecution here, and it is signed by you. Did it have anything to do with Inmates?
A. No, it did not. This concerned welfare of racial German workers which one had become sick due to the TB" and he had to report to the army hospital, and there the driver who was supposed to send that letter to the business manager did not bring it to him.
Q. Witness, during your activity with the DEST, did you ever enter a concentration camp?
A. During my activity with the DEST during the German assignment of Earth and Stone Work, I once entered the sphere of a Kommandantur of a concentration camp. However, I never did enter a Protective Custody Camp.
Q. I can recall that you told me at one time that you were sent to a camp commandant on special orders. Will you please tell us now what was the reason for that, who was the camp commandant, and what were the negotiations about?
A. The man in charge of the Stone Works in Oranienburg called up the business management of DEST one day and complained about the fact the commander of the concentration camp at Sachsenhausen, Loritz, had suddenly withdrawn four carpenters from the camp, and, that, therefore, he could not proceed with his work. He said that the labor of these four carpenters was absolutely urgent, and Dr. Salpeter, who was business manager of DEST ordered me to drive up to Oranienburg in order to speak to Loritz, and I was to try to have these four carpenters returned to their original place of work. Thereupon I drove to Oranienburg, reported to the adjutant of the camp commandant, and I was not received very well, due to the fact I was civilian. They looked at me in a bad way. I spoke to the adjutant about those various things of which I had been told, and he passed them onto the camp commandant and the camp commandant told me through channels that he did not have time to see me about those things, and I had to return to Berlin without having achieved anything.
Q. Was that a single occurrence, or did DEST have several complaints of this nature?
A. The DEST did have frequent complaints, that is to say, to the effect that trained and skilled specialists no longer appeared for work and that in a few weeks had come back to the original place of work, in the meantime they had worked for the camp commandant. Most of the time these complaints were sent in writing to the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camp, Department 1-5 there. In this particular case it was tried to take care of that thing immediately and directly, because the business manager there said the whole matter was rather of an urgent nature. Apart from all here were several complaints that inmates were still being used in the camp after they had returned from their work, and that they would appear to work the following morning in a very tired condition, but an additional factor was the sudden release of skilled workers who simply did not appear at the working place, and of course, there was a decrease in production, as a result. In this connection I would like to refer to Document NO 1972, Exhibit No. 429, in Document Book No. 16. It is contained on page 19 of the English Document Book, Your Honor. In this document it is stated that inmates who are engaged as skilled workers, and who represented important workers, and who should thereby be released, from that would create a decrease in production, were to be reported to the camp commandants; who would then inform the Reich Security Main Office. This letter which was introduced by the Prosecution as a document under their number, is of Branch Office. 1-5 in Buchenwald, and refers to orders issued by the Inspector of Concentration Camps. The idea was that inmates were not to be used or employed outside, or in excess of the time in which they were supposed to serve in the camp, or otherwise the Gestapo had to report their release to the concentration camp fourteen days in advance, and then they would have to shorten, or to give an order to the effect that the release contained therein be shortened.
The way it worked was when a release slip came from the RSHA, the Reich Security Main Office, the inmate would then be withdrawn from the general camp, and therefore he didn't know what was going on, and then he would be placed in a release quarantine for four weeks. The reason for the release quarantine was that the smuggling of information from the camp was to be prosecuted. In other words, if, the RSHA knew, for instance, that this or that inmate was classed as skilled labor and issued an order for his release they then shortened the period of time in which a man had to serve in the release quarantine, and that it would not have any effect upon the time served by the inmate. The camp commandant did not like the idea very much because they said that from the position of the inmate they would know they would be released at that particular moment when he was to teach somebody else what the idea of his work was. Thereupon while studying these documents here, I asked myself why we had such great difficulty at the time, if the Main Department 1-5 would have been subordinated to the Main Office Construction and Budget. It would have been very simple for us if we would have gone either Loerner or Pohl, and, let's say, raised hell against the man in charge of 1-5; Burboeck. But how it really worked out was that we had to go to Oranienburg with our troubles and here Burboeck did not show us much sympathy with our difficulties.
Q.- Witness, can you tell us even today details about the question of the treatment of inmates with the BEST? By that I mean with reference to food and release.
A.- I stated before that the DEST -- the German Earth and Stone Works -- received a special training order in addition to its normal labor order. Those inmates who were to be trained were to be induced in some way or other to volunteer for the training because that training necessitated the work on the part of the inmate outside of the normal labor time. That is to say, he did not have to work for a longer period of time, but he had to learn the theoretical questions of his training in the evenings for instance.
As far as the training itself was concerned, civilian stone cutters were employed as teachers. These men actually built up a regular school. The thing that DEST did in order to induce the inmates to work was to give them additional food -- not, to be sure, the usual one-pot-stero but potatoes, soup, and something else, separated. I can recall that at the time we purchased enormous quantities of potatoes in addition to the normal foods and that one of the racial German workers went to Berlin every day to one of those large butcheries to get some sausage soup there. That was a soup that was very fat and which, generally speaking was issued to the Women in Berlin. We secured those sausage soups in Berlin, and they were taken to Oranienburg daily and issued to the inmates. I myself went to the Reich Tobacco Agency -- that is to say, the Reich agency that was issuing the tobacco to civilians -- and I had several negotiations there and finally succeeded in receiving large amounts of tobacco for our inmates for the purposes described before.
Apart from that, we had our own vegetable plots, and in most of the DEST factories vegetables were issued to the inmates as bonuses.
The inmates were fed in accordance with the Reich Food Ministry regulations, which had been issued by them. How far they received heavy workers' and very heavy workers' ratios we did not know because when we wrote to the administrative department of the concentration camps and also the administrative officers inquiring as to what they received, we did not receive any information whatsoever about it.
Inmates who worked particularly well were reported by those enterprises to the Reich Criminal Police and the Reich Security Main Office in order to obtain their release. I myself had negotiations with the Gestapo office, to be sure, with Dr. Berndorf, who was the man who was in charge of the protective custody inmates, in order to receive their release as inmates and their use as civilian employees by the DEST.
Unfortunately I can recall only very few names, that is to say, only those names of the inmates whom I met later on. I would like to describe to this Tribunal very briefly what I went through on one occasion. The manager of the Earth and Stone Workers at Oranienburg had submitted in writing an application for the release of a man by the name of Schenk because that man was being used as a foreman with the Earth and Stone works and because he was a very good worker. The manager expected to have more profit from that man if he was assigned to them as a civilian employee. He told me by telephone to please effect the release of that man. What he meant by that was that I should make a social application to the Gestapo. As I had no knowledge whatsoever about that inmates and his background and as I had to gain some sort of a picture of that man before I could go and negotiate for him, I went to Oranienburg and had this inmate come to see me.
The innate was wearing a green triangle. That is to say, he was a professional criminal, and his camp number was One. I started speaking to him, and I asked him why he was in the concentration camp. He told me, looking very much surprised, that he did not know that himself. He told me that he was simply picked up by the Gestapo and was then taken to a concentration camp.
The impression that I gained of this man was a very good one, I went back to Berlin and made an application in writing, and I had this application signed by the business manager. I went to see Dr. Berndorf personally. I told him all about the case. He wanted to see the files on that inmate, but there were no files. I had to tell him that the man was wearing a green triangle. I found out then that the Gestapo was not responsible for these men with the green triangle but the Criminal Police. Dr. Berndorf called up the man in charge there and asked him to see me. I thereupon went to the Reich Criminal Police Office, to Dr. Andechser.
When I arrived there, the man had that inmate's record on his desk. I told him what I had come to see him about, and I told him that I had a very good impression of that inmate, that inmate had told me personally that he did not know, why he was in the concentration camp. Dr. Andechser opened that inmate's record, and he read me 30 previous convictions which that inmate had gone through. They ranged from theft to rape, and he told me that it was impossible to release that man during the war, in his opinion. I thereupon asked him please to release was actually carried out. That inmate became a civilian foreman with the DEST.
Approximately ten days after that he was then to report back to work. I believe that he returned on the 12th or 13th day. He apologized saying that he had gone to Berlin, had met some old friends there, and that they had got drunk together. That was the reason he had borrowed some money from a number of workers in the DEST.
I did not see that man again. All I know is that a half a year later he was returned to the concentration camp because of another violation of the law.
I can recall in connection with inmate's release just the name of Kranebuhl, who was a foreman in the brick works of Oranienburg, and who was later on also sent back to a concentration camp because of the black market slaughtering.
Then I can recall the name of Fischer, who was a technical draftsman in the main department of the DEST in Berlin, and also a Stabinger, who was working in the -
BY JUDGE MUSSMANO:
Q.- What do you want us to draw from this long story that you have told us about the individual who was released and then returned six months later? What do you prove by that long recital?
A.- Your Honor, it has been repeatedly mentioned here that the inmates were sent to the concentration camps without any reason and were not guilty and that we were supposed to know that.
Q.- Then you conclude that this individual was really a criminal?
A.- Yes, indeed.
Q.- Well, if he was such a criminal, why did you advocate hie release when the Police Chief showed you the record on the table of the various crimes that he had committed, running the whole gamut from thievery to rape; yet you recommended his release. How do you explain that?
A.- Your Honor, due to that restriction to the area of Oranienburg and due to the fact that man made a very good impression upon me personally, I believed that in spite or his record -- or due to his record and due to his stay in the concentration camp, he would behave differently in the future. I mentioned before that was not the case and that later on he was again punished.
Q.- Very well, then; from this incident and two or three others that you adverted to, you conclude that those who were in the concentration camps should be there because of their criminal records?
A. Your Honor, those were not only two or three instances, but there were quite a few instances.
Q. Yes, but from those which you had occasion to investigate, you now conclude that there were no innocent people in concentration camps, that is what we are to draw from this story?
A. Well, I shall come back to that later on, your Honor, also my conclusion that these people were either sent to the concentration camps due to punishments, or then because they were endangering the security of the Reich as it said in their protective custody order.
BY DR. BELZER:
Q. Witness, can you tell us anything about the comparison in numbers between the inmate labor and free labor which was employed at the DEST?
A. The number of inmates is no longer known to me. I only know that the number of the skilled workers with the DEST was a very low one, and in order to increase that number we currently tried to get more personnel by releasing inmates all the time, since no labor was available in the open market.
Q. Witness, during your activity with the DEST did anything change in your position or your relationship towards the SS?
A. I stated before that my membership with the SS had rested since the first of April, 1936. After my release from the Wehrmacht sure I tried and after I was a member of the DEST. I didn't serve any longer in the SS. Approximately in July, 1941, Mummenthey saw me wearing a uniform of a lieutanant of the army one time, and that was on the occasion of a luncheon in the officers' mess. On that particular evening I had agreed to participate in one of the regular conferences of reserve officers.
That was the reason why I was wearing a uniform. Mummenthey started speaking to me, and he asked me if I had ever been a member of the General-SS at any time, and I confirmed that fact, and I said that I was a Rottenfuehrer. Thereupon Mummenthey told me that it would be appropriate if now, as I was an officer of the army, I would receive a rank in the General-SS also. Thereupon he applied for my promotion as a SS leader, and in august 1941, I was promoted from an NCO Rottenfuehrer to an Untersturmfuehrer of the General-SS, to assimilate it to my Wehrmacht rank. In January, 1942, I then became an Obersturmfuehrer of the General-SS. I didn't serve in the General-SS during all that time though.
Q. Neither before nor after the assimilation of rank?
A. Yes, that is correct, neither before nor after that rank assimilation. All I saw in that was an honor on the basis of my rank in the Wehrmacht.
Q. When was it that you met Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl for the first time?
A. That must have been towards the end of 1941 or early 1942. At the time most of the civilian members of the DEST were ordered to as to take WVHA to the main office building. We met there in a large hall. The officers were up front, of the two main offices, wearing their uniforms, and the civilians were sitting in the back. Pohl then held a long speech concerning the corruption case of Sauerzweig, S-a-u-e-r-z-w-e-i-g. During that occasion he threatened everybody that they would be placed before a court martial and have them shot who would try to get more food than the actual allocation was, and who, by committing some sort of a corruption, would become conspicuous. It was on that occasion that I saw Pohl for the first time.
Q. When did you meet Standartenfuehrer Mauer for the first time who became your chief after that?
A. It must have been in the middle of March, 1942, when Mummenthey asked me to accompany him on some conversation which he had to have with the WVHA, that is to say, when we had to go and see Sturmbannfuehrer, at the time, Maurer, M-a-u-r-e-r. Maurer at the time was chief of Staff I in the personal office of Pohl, and he told us that the entire correspondence concerning the labor assignment of the inmates in the concentration camps no longer would run between the main offices of the economic enterprises and the inspectorate and would no longer be dealt with by those two agencies, but was only to be channeled through him, Maurer. Then inmate labor assignment was discussed for quite a while on that evening, and I told Maurer at the time that I thought it impossible to reach a somewhat normal inmate labor assignment so long as his commanders were the only men in charge within their own sphere of authority, as long as they were the bosses of that organization that they wouldn't help the industrial enterprises at all. On that occasion I also mentioned a case which had become known to me where commanders of the concentration camps had made meatballs out of horse mean and were selling them to the inmates for a mark and half in their cafeterias. I told Maurer that was a clear case of corruption. Maurer at the time asked that all such cases that became known were to be reported to him immediately, and that he would then instruct the camp commandants, or rather that he would take care of them all right, as he said.
When I had a short discussion with Mummenthey a few days later, he told me that according to Maurer's order, all the mail from the enterprises could be sent to Maurer directly, and that therefore the department inmate labor assignment actually had become superfluous as all the other tasks would also be decentralized, and he told me that he intended to then appoint me as assistant, or assisting business manager as he called it.
Q. Will you tell us how you joined the Department D for "Dog" II of the WVHA?
A. A little while after that conversation with Maurer the Inspectorate of the Concentration camps was incorporated into the WVHA as Amtsgruppe D for "Dog". Maurer became chief of Office D for "Dog" II, that is to say Department Labor Assignment of Inmates.
Mummenthey asked me to come and see him one day, and in the presence of Opperbeck, who was an assistant manager there, asked me the rather surprising question, "Do you want to become a main office chief"? He told me then that Maurer had asked him, to use me as a collaborator in Department D-II, that is to say, to have me released from the DEST, the German Earth & Stone Works, and he would leave it up to me if I wanted to collaborate with Maurer or not. I asked him to give me twenty-four hours' time to think it over, and on the following morning I asked Mummenthey to help me to speak to Maurer personally. I then went to Oranienburg; I reported to Maurer, and he told me approximately the following: I knew all the trouble of the economic enterprises with reference to labor assignment, and he would appreciate it if I would help him to create clearer and much cleaner conditions of of labor assignment. He intended to have me released from the DEST and and employ me as a civilian employee in his organization. I would like to point out explicitly here that at the time during that conference we only mentioned the fact that inmates were to be used in the economic enterprises.
We didn't speak about any labor assignment in the armament industry, because according to my knowledge there was no such thought at the time. At least, as far as my conference with Maurer was concerned, we didn't discuss any such thing.
Q. When did you start your position in Office D for "Dog" II?
A. The department labor assignment with the DEST was dissolved, and I started working with D for "Dog" II on the 5th of May, 1942.
Q. Up to what time were you a member of Office D for "Dog" II?
A. Approximately up to the capitulation. Office D for "Dog" II, practically speaking, had ceased existing towards April, 1945, because there was no connection whatsoever with the concentration camps then. That was about mid-April 1945.
Q. Where did you live at the time?
A. At the time I lived in Berlin, and I drove daily from Berlin to Oranienburg, and I returned to Berlin in the evening, and did that approximately up to the 23rd of August, 1943. On that day I was bombed out in Berlin and I had to move out to Oranienburg.
Q. Would you give this Tribunal a sort of description of the organization or work of Amtsgruppe D for "Dog"?
A. Amtsgruppe D for Dog was at the time inspectorate of the concentration camps, and in addition to that, or rather as an extention to that, had Office D-II, labor assignment of inmates. Amtsgruppe D consisted of Office D-l, the central Office, which was always used as a liaison office for us between the RSHA and the concentration camps.
We had Department D-2, Labor Assignment of Inmates; Office D-3, which, according to the Organizational Chart, was the medical inspectorate of the concentration camps, which we, however, also considered the chief physician of the concentration camps. We had Office D-4 which was administration of concentration camps, which was deactivated towards August 1942, and which was then re-established in the middle of 1943.
Q. Would you tell the Tribunal a synopsis concerning the organization of the fields of task of Office D-2?
A. The organization of Office D-2 corresponds to the organizational chart introduced by the Prosecution in NO111, Exhibit 38, in Book 2. Office D-2, in May of 1942, consisted of the Chief of Office and three experts. The name of Office D-2 was Labor Assignment of Inmates; and Special Department D-2-1 was Inmate Labor Assignment. D-2-2, Training of Inmates; and the Department D-2-3, Accounting and Statisttics.
Office D-2 was Pohl's instrument, so to speak, for the guidance of labor assignment of all the concentration camp inmates within the Reich area; and later on also, in addition to that, of the concentration camp Herzogenbusch. Then the concentration camps of the Occupied Eastern Territories were added and the concentration camps in the "Eastland", that is to say, in Riga, Kaunas, and Waigara, in the Baltic territories--they were immediately subordinated to the SS Economist of the Higher SS and Police Leader, and that directly.
The conditions in the Government General were not very clean ever since the beginning, and they were only established slowly and subordinated to the SS economists.
There was no written order through the Office D-2. The work of Department D-2, in detail, is approximately the following.
That office had to deal with the wishes of the business managers of the SS enterprises concerning labor assignments and then by channeling it through the camp commandants, who at the same time were the business managers. They had to receive all those things.
Furthermore, they had to take care of the wishes of the SS Construction Agencies, and only at the beginning--only to a very small extent-- they had to take care of private enterprises. The wishes had to be submitted to Pohl, and Pohl decided if the transfer of the inmates should be effected provided that there were inmates in the camps.
In the end of summer, 1942, there were also negotiations with agencies with Reich authorities in Berlin upon Pohl's orders. Then there were negotiations with the members and agents of the self-administration of the German economy, also in Berlin, Furthermore, instruction of the commanders and their experts by drawing their attention to the necessity of the importance of the labor assignment of inmates. Then there was a current checking-up on the labor assignment of the inmates with the industrial firms by the Chief of Office Maurer. Then we had to pass on basic orders of Himmler's and Pohl's, and also from Gluecks, to the camp commandants as far as they were concerned with questions of labor assignment. Then the writing of periodical reports concerning labor assignment of inmates. We also had to compile reports on the number of inmates to Pohl and Himmler, current control of labor assignment on the basis of reports which were sent in by the camp commandants--and that to Office D-2.
Then guidance of auxiliary and skilled workers. If there ever was a lack of such skilled workers, or surplus of such men somewhere--that went to Gluecks.
Furthermore, we had to take care of all procedures which dealt with the labor assignment, and thereby taking care of them in an official way.
THE PRESIDENT: We will take the usual recess.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will recess for fifteen minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. BELZER:
Q. Witness, before the recess you described to us the field of tasks of the Office D II. If you want to give us any details on that question, please do it now.
A. In the Office D II beyond the tasks that I have already described, the supervision and the direction of the training of the inmates was also carried out. That was the training of the inmates which went beyond the training of the stone cutters and masons in the Dost; there it dealt with the training of carpenters, locksmiths, roof workers, and other professions. Then the Office D II exercised control over the demands which were raised by the administrative officers of the concentration camps with regard to the payments for the inmates, which payment was to be made by the enterprises; that is to say, with regard to the figure on the compensation and the number of inmates who had been furnished. This control over the sum of the working bonuses which was paid by the enterprises was ordered, as well as the particular evaluation of the controls over the allocation of labor with regard to the allocation of labor.
Q. Does the Office D II represent the continuation of a department which had previously existed in the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps?
A. No. Before in the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps we had the Main Department I/5. It had the designation The Commissioner for the Allocation of Labor. This agency had so-called branch offices in the concentration camps. They were directed by the chief of the branch of I/5, who was also called Protective Custody leader "E". The man in charge of the branch agency was immediately subordinated to the Main Department I/5 with the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps. These men were responsible to that man for their work. Leave and official trips had to be approved by the Main Depart ment I/5; and the men in charge of the branch offices had to submit regular activity reports to the Main Department I/5.According to the Document NO-2167, which has been presented by the prosecution, being Exhibit 87 in Document Book IV, on Page 36 of the English text, the Inspector of the Concentration Camps Gluecks on 20 February 1942 ordered the dissolving of these branch offices.
He ordered that the execution of the entire labor allocation in the camps was to be transferred to the camp commander. After the establishment of the Office for the Labor Allocation of the inmates nothing changed as regards this regulation. With the establishment of the Office D II there appears for the first time the designation Labor Allocation Officer. That title had not existed previously. This labor allocation officer was the expert of the camp commander with regard to labor allocation matters. He was subordinated exclusively to the camp commander; and he received his instructions from the camp commander. He only had the responsibility toward the camp commander to submit to him the reports about his activity.
Q. What official contact did the Office D II have to the other offices of the Office Group D?
A. The four offices of the Amtsgruppe D were only connected with each other through the person of the Chief of Amtsgruppe Gluecks. Conferences between the offices, as far as I can recall, unfortunately never took place. A change of orders hardly ever took place. I should like to point out that the prosecution has submitted 550 documents. Among them there are forty-seven orders of the Office D I, which was the central office. These orders were addressed to the concentration camps and dealt with basic matters. Of these fortyseven orders, according to the distribution list, the Office D II received only seven. The Office D II itself only informed the Offices D III and D IV of the establishment of new labor camps. That is, the branch agencies were all Amt forms which were subordinated to the con centration camps.
As far as I can recall, that was the only official contact which the offices had among each other.
I must say today that this fact is very regrettable in my opinion. After all, with the closest collaboration, things certainly might have turned out differently. However, the procedure was that when D II was established within the Office Group D, the members of that particular office were received with a great amount of distrust. This distrust became increased when Pohl in the late summer of 1942 dismissed a large number of camp commanders, among whom was the Camp Commander Loritz, to whose case I shall refer later on and by whom the chief of Office D I Liebehenschel was also compromised to a certain extent. In addition to that, we have the completely different opinions of the office chief, which, in my opinion, resulted in the fact that no mutual conferences took place. The individual members of the various offices therefore gained only a very superficial insight into the tasks of the other offices.
Q. Who were the chiefs of the Office D II?