So I reported to the authorities concerned in the Reich Air Ministry. I applied for the job. The application was granted; and on 1st September 1936 I took over the Department Dwelling and Settlements in the Air Ministry.
Q Your activity in the Air Ministry was the reason why later on you were transferred to the Waffen SS and the WVHA. Therefore, I want to ask you a few questions about your activities in the Air Ministry. Would you please tell us briefly the position and duties you had in the Air Ministry?
A From 1st September 1936 until 1st September 1941 I was in charge of that department. From 1938 onwards I was called "Baurat", a building councillor. under me there was the entire settlement business of the Luftwaffe with the exception of settlements for workers, which was looked after by the industry. I said before that when I joined this department it did not actually exist and that I had to built it up. Thus I had to furnish all the basis for that department. I worked on the various legal orders for that type of task. Then came the basis for large settlements of the Luftwaffe in connection with the building and planning of cities and large settlements, and in the end the basis for the economic buildings of the Luftwaffe in those settlements.
I wish to say that the last two points were recognized in circles far beyond the Luftwaffe and were even made part of the standard work about the building of German cities. In the period between 1936 and 1941 there were under my direction for building about 20,000 dwelling places, according to my directives. In 1938 I also took over the Department for Arts within the Luftwaffe. When war broke out, the building of dwelling houses was discontinued. At the beginning only those buildings were allowed to be completed which had already been started. This lasted until about 1941. That then was the end of that chapter, too.
Meanwhile, the Fuehrer Order had been issued about the building of houses after the war, this happening in September of 1940. A large building program for the whole of the Reich to the tune about five million dwelling houses was to be appointed for the program. I myself was given the order in collaboration with the dwelling experts of the navy and the army to represent the interests of the Luftwaffe with that Reich Kommissar and to adapt the peace-time program of the Luftwaffe to the newly planned program. We discussed and worked on all the preliminary plans for this; but when I left the Luftwaffe in September of 1941, that work had not been completed yet.
Q Who were your superiors in the Reich Ministry?
A The chief of the whole building administration was Galwitz. The Chief of department 11, of which I was part, was Oberregierungsbaurat Dr. Kammler until about May 1940. From 1940, to 1941, Regierungsbaurat Kollert.
Q What was Kammler's position in the Reich Air Ministry?
A Dr. Kammler was chief of Special Task Number 2, that meant hospitals, settlements buildings, art monuments and intelligence buildings. That is four department altogether.
Q Did you have much or little contact with Kammler in the Reich Air Ministry?
A Yes. He was an immediate superior. I had to tell him about everything. In all important matters, I had to obtain his signature. This was done in the form usual with any Ministry namely that you reported orally and personally. However, in view of the vastness of my tasks, it did not happen too frequently. When we were most busy, it happened about once a week. During Kammler's time, I went to see him once or twice a month.
Q Did you have any contact with Kammler outside of his house?
A No. Relations between Kammler and we were entirely formal throughout that period of time. He was quite ordinarily regarded as a comparatively unsocial man. In 1937, I had a fairly grave argument with him and offered my resignation. This avoided when the highest chief asked me to stay on. I finally said I was quite prepared to go on with my department. During my period with the Reich Ministry, therefore, I had no personal contact, with Dr. Kammler, nor was I anxious to have it. He did not seem anxious to see too much of me. He never invited me to his house and I had no personal meetings with him.
Q When and why did you leave the Air Ministry?
A I left the Air Ministry not in the actual sense of the word, in August 1941. I was asked to report to Army District 6 in Berlin. When I went there I was told that the fact that I had been indispensable in the Ministry had been rescinded because the Army wished my services as a reserve officer of the Old Army.
The men in charge of this Army District Command, when I showed them my pass from the Air Ministry, which said among other things, that no other authority must avail themselves of my services without the permission of the Air Ministry, told me I would be called up. A position as adjutant with the battalion had been provided for me. I would have to wait until that agency contacted me.
Q At the same time I was told that my call-up might occur very quickly, and I should make myself available by telephone. A few days later I was told to report again. I had a medical examination and a card index was filled out about me.
Then, again, I was told I might expect I might be called away any moment now by telephone. Then one day I was given a sealed envelope addressed to the Personnel Office of the Reich Air Ministry. I never learned the contents of this envelope.
Anyway, the Reich Air Ministry told me and the personnel office in particular that as I had been called up, my contract with the ministry was no longer applicable and had to be validated while I was in the Army. The arrangement made was that after I had done my service with the Army, I was to take over the department without any formality. I resigned from the Ministry on 31 August 1941.
Q Can you please describe to us, if you can, the events which lead to your transfer to the Waffen-SS?
A My explanation for this process is very difficult for me. I was sitting at home waiting to be called up on the telephone a few days later when I received a letter with the so-called Red Army letters on it which said that I had been called up as a Lieutenant in the Reserve, at the disposal of the Army. There was a footnote to the letter which officially started my term of services with the Army.
A few days later, I received a registered letter from the personnel department of the OKH which said that I had been transferred to the Waffen-SS, and I had to report immediately to the headquarters of the Waffen-SS in Berlin; which I did.
Q Would you have been in a position to refuse to obey the order to report to the Waffen-SS?
AAs far as I know I had no possibility of that sort because the order said clearly I had been transferred and that I had to report to the agency concerned. A refusal would have been tantamount to a conscientious objection and I would have been subject to relevant punishment.
Q When was this that you reported to the Waffen-SS Agency?
AAs far as I can recall that today, it must have been about the middle of September, 1941.
Q Were you before then active in any sense with the SS Administration?
A No. Neither as a fulltime job nor as an honorary occupation, nor in any other sense of the word.
Q So, it was by the middle of September when you first joined the SS administration by order?
A Yes.
Q What were the orders given to you by the headquarters of the SS?
A When I reported to the Main Operational Office, the Fuehrungshauptamt, I was given a little slip of a paper, and I was taken to the recruiting depot of the Waffen-SS.
There I had another medical examination. Cards were filled in. Then I was told that I had to wait until the Fuehrungshauptamt, the Main Operation Office, would contact me. That happened very quickly, after a few days.
I reported to them and I was told that I had been detailed for the technical service of the Waffen-SS, and I should report to the Office.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead.
A This I did on the same day, and so for the first time since 1940, I was re-united with Dr. Kammler who was in charge of the Office Budget and Building in the Main Office.
THE PRESIDENT: The recess please.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess for 15 minutes.
(A short recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. McHANEY: I have been advised that during this afternoon's session the Tribunal ruled that the Defense witness Arnold Ertel should not be heard "in the face of the present record" on the food experiments, with respect to which the Prosecution has heretofore submitted evidence. I am not clear just what the Tribunal meant by "in the face of the present record", but I must conclude, and I think Defense Counsel has also concluded, that the Tribunal has ruled in effect that the Prosecution has made out no crime with respect to the food experiments. The Prosecution therefore feels compelled to request the Tribunal to reconsider its ruling and to permit the witness to be heard on this point.
I would like to point out that in Document Book No. 8 the Prosecution introduced Document NO - 003 as Prosecution Exhibit 260. It is on page 10 of the Document Book. It is a letter dated 9 September 1942 from Pohl to Himmler in which he suggests experiments on concentration camp inmates with poisoned food. We have introduced Document NO 1422 -
THE PRESIDENT: Where does it say that? Where does it say that, Mr. McHaney, in Exhibit 260, or are you referring possibly to the statement on page 12 of the English document book?
MR. McHANEY: Yes, indeed, Your Honor, under the reference "to 16".
THE PRESIDENT: That's right.
MR. McHANEY: "We shall have to make two groups of food experiments.
"First, such which cover the examination of poisonous ingredients of our food or such as are slowly growing poisonous.
"The prisoners can very well be used for those experiments."
The next document is NO 1422, which is on page 15 of the same document book and which was introduced as Prosecution exhibit 261. This is a letter dated 20 March 1943 from Pohl to Karl Brandt, replying to a letter in which Brandt had suggested that concentrated foods be tested on concentration camp inmates, and in this letter in reply Pohl indicates that he has no desire to see such experiments carried out and remarks to Brandt that he--that is, the defendant Pohl--was carrying out food experiments of his own.
On page 18 of the same Document Book-
THE PRESIDENT: Well, don't leave that document for a minute. In what part of the document is there any intimation of criminality?
MR. McHANEY: Well, there is not necessarily any indication of criminality in this particular document, Your Honor. It does prove, however, that the defendant Pohl was at this time carrying out food experiments of some sort. Now, the rest of the proof, I think, indicates quite clearly what food experiments were then in progress. In other words, I think no single document among the series which we have introduced in and of itself makes out the complete crime.
THE PRESIDENT: It is not disputed that experiments in nutrition were carried out. They have been described by the Defense from the witness stand.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, if Your Honor please, if we come to the affidavit of Antres, which is in Document Book 21--
THE PRESIDENT: We are familiar with that. We have just inspected it.
MR. MC HANEY: I think, if the Tribunal please, the affidavit of Antres certainly established the commission of a crime. He talks of food experiments by Dr. Schenk, and that these experiments resulted in death, and I submit that these four or five documents taken together certainly establish a crime.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Antres, of course, does not disclose the source of his knowledge nor any details.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, that may be, Your Honor. I will not at this point, unless the Tribunal wishes me to, undertake the argue the weight which should be given to the affidavit of Antres, but as the record stands, Antres, who certainly was no curious interloper, but was, in fact, the commander of the Mauthausen concentration camp, states that the experiments were carried out and that people were killed. This is a crime which occurred in concentration camps. It is a crime in which Dr. Schenk participated. It is a crime which, the prosecution submits, the other documents prove the defendant Pohl was connected with. We will also maintain, at the proper point in the proceedings, just what effect we think this evidence should be given with respect to other defendants, including the defendant Tschentscher, who called the witness Ertel, who was a subordinate of his and worked in an adjoining office, to testify about Schenk's experiments, which on its face indicates that Tschentscher and his subordinates knew something about the work of Schenk. So that we submit--
THE PRESIDENT: Tschentscher admits he knew something about the work of Schenk. That is a long ways from knowing that Schenk was engaged in criminal activities and participating in them, or even condoning them.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, if the Tribunal please, I think that the prosecution has submitted proof on literally thousands of crimes which occurred in concentration camps.
It is certainly premature, I think, to require the prosecution, or for the Tribunal to rule that this or that crime, to which a microscope is suddenly placed, does not apply to any defendant in this dock and cannot be used against him. The whole theory of the prosecution is that crime systematically occurred on a great scale in concentration camps by and large, that these defendants are the men who ran the concentration camps and who drew sustenance from them, and we therefore base a theory here that these defendants are responsible for those crimes, but then in this or that case this or that defendant did not even know that the crime had been committed.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, this involves the res gestae, Mr. McHaney. This involves the prerequisite proof that this particular crime was committed. In the absence of that proof we are not concerned with the multiplicity of other crimes, are we?
MR. MC HANEY: No, but if Your Honor please, if we can be very clear about the basis of the Tribunal's ruling, I think we can disregard the connection of the defendant Tschentscher, or any other of the defendants in the dock, with the food experiments. If we can concentrate, then, simply on the proposition whether crime was committed, I submit that the affidavit of Antres, which on its face states that Schenk conducted the experiments and that deaths did occur, then on the face of the record that constitutes a crime. Now, as to what weight the Tribunal may choose to give to the affidavit of Antres, I shall certainly not take upon myself to suggest, but the affidavit has been admitted. It is in evidence before this Tribunal, and I think that in the face of that the defense is certainly open to go in to the details of these food experiments and to contradict Antres' affidavit in any manner which they can. I am not up here pleading for the rights of the defendants, of course, these defense counsel, except incidentally, because I was concerned about the ruling on this particular experiment. I do submit that the record shows on its face that it was a crime.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Tribunal did not close the door. It said as a witness for the defendant Tschentscher, and in connection with this particular phase or allegation in the indictment, although there is no allegation as to food experiments in the indictment, that this witness might be withdrawn and offered later if it appeared advisable or necessary.
That was our ruling, and that an affidavit was to be submitted signed by this witness in lieu of further oral testimony.
MR. MC HANEY: Of course that is quite satisfactory with the prosecution, but I was under the impression that Dr. Seidl for one was of the opinion that the Tribunal was ruling that no crime had been committed with respect to the experiment, and hence he was no longer interested in it. Now, I just would like for the record to be clear, that is not the case, and then he can do what he will with what witnesses he has, or what other proof he has.
THE PRESIDENT: Sir, we didn't close the door on the prosecution making a further showing by any evidence available as to criminal food experiments.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, that is true, of course, Your Honor, and we perhaps shall have additional evidence to submit. I have in mind one particular document.
THE PRESIDENT: I don't know why it didn't go into your main case if it is proof of the res gestae.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, it didn't because we couldn't locate it at that time.
THE PRESIDENT: Of course, we have had twenty documents submitted here on cross-examination, which, we suppose, were for the purpose either of impeachment or refreshing the witness's recollection. When the documents came in, they did neither. They were simply cumulative evidence which might have been a part of the prosecution's case in chief. They were admitted without objection, however.
MR. MC HANEY: Well, the only point I wish to make clear is that the prosecution felt compelled to rise and make the remarks which I have made because we didn't want any misunderstanding or any feeling on the part of defense counsel of surprise or anything of that nature at a later stage.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal's comment, which did not amount to a ruling, was clear and explicit, and I don't think is subject to any misunderstanding if carefully read by either prosecution or defense.
MR. MC HANEY: Very well, Your Honor.
DR. MAYER: May I continue, Your Honor?
BY DR. MAYER:
Q. Witness, you concluded by saying that when you reported to the office construction you found Dr. Kammler there, to your surprise. What was it that took place when you reported to Dr. Kammler on orders?
A. When I reported to Dr. Kammler, I first had a long conference with him. Dr. Kammler informed me that he had not resigned from the Luftwaffe himself. He then spoke about his conference with the personnel office, and that he found out that I had been drafted into the army, and that therefore I was no longer in the construction administration of the Luftwaffe, whereupon he immediately contacted the personnel office of the army, and after several difficulties he finally succeeded in getting the idea through that I didn't go through my apprenticeship in the army, but rather in the Waffen-SS, and that thus he had been given an opportunity to win me for his technical service of the WaffenSS, and to have me transferred to that service.
He further stated that in the summer of 1941 he received the order from the Reichsfuehrer, Himmler, to have a construction administrative office of its own for the Waffen-SS, to be sure a construction administration be built up on the example of other army branches, that is, army, navy, and air force. For that reason he needed specialists or experts, and that was the reason why he selected me. I had experience in that field. That was the reason why he had me transferred to the Waffen-SS. He furthermore informed me there was no regulation pertaining to employees in the Waffen-SS, and that he would apply to the Construction Council that I should be promoted to a Sturmbannfuehrer. That is a rank in the Waffen-SS.
In the course of that conference the following agreement was reached: The service with the construction administrative service of the Waffen-SS was to be limited to the duration of the war. My pay with the Waffen-SS was to be the same as with the Reich Air Ministry. The tasks which I had in the administrative office of the SS should at least mainly be the same as in the Luftwaffe. On the basis of the fact that they wanted to have a clear distinction between the two fields of task of mine, Dr. Kammler told me to carry out the dwelling construction and the preservation of cultural monuments after the war. Those were the same tasks as those I had with the Reich Air Ministry. He furthermore gave me the task to plan the construction of hospitals of the Waffen-SS.
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Then the following thing was discussed. My main office, which at the time was no real office, was to be incorporated into an office which already existed: Napola, the national school. The Reich Education Minister and the Reich Treasurer were responsible for those two tasks. That is why Dr. Kammler wanted to supervise those two departments himself. He told me that was just a formal subordination because he had to put that department somewhere. In other words, I had as my main tasks within the framework of the new construction administrative office of the Waffen-SS for construction tasks, the regulations and the construction technicalities. That is, technically speaking, the observance of cubic footage for those constructions.
Q You were just speaking, witness, about dwelling and dwelling settlement construction after the war. Do you mean the preparation of those two, dwelling and settlements after the war?
A Yes. It dealt with the program which I already mentioned when I spoke of my activity with the Luftwaffe, the preparation of the dwelling and settlement program after the war according to the Fuehrer Order of September 1940.
Q You mentioned the observance of cubic footage, and the space rate. What do you mean by that?
A I would like to tell you in a few words, however, I think it rather important to give you a somewhat clearer description of it all because I believe that I was able to find out when I was interrogated that there can easily occur misunderstandings, and that, therefore, it isn't too simple to speak to a layman about such technical construction matters. I would like to say that right in this particular point that rate here means "permissible". Observance of cubic footage or space rate means a list about the space permissible for a building, for a construction project. It was to be understood thus, that in every branch of the Wehrmacht, the Main Administrative Office of the Wehrmacht, there were all sorts of construction projects. One of the regulations was which contained exact descriptions: what Court No. II, Case No. 4.kind of building this might have been, and that, according to the Reich Finance Ministry regulations, what rooms were to be contained in every one of those buildings.
And, also, of what size these individual rooms were to be. That regulation's name was Raumgebuehr, or space rate. The layman thinks the whole thing isn't very important. However, for all Wehrmacht construction administrations, and also for the Reich Construction Administration itself, this was the basis for the entire construction, particularly within the framework of the blocked budget during peacetime.
It can be understood that this space rate is a construction program which had been approved by the Reich Finance Ministry. That is, when all those construction projects are set up in the budget and they are to be approved, and if they have been planned according to the space rate, then, so to speak, there is already a permission of the Reich Finance Ministry-
THE PRESIDENT: We will have to make this more brief. For better than seven minutes now we have been having a definition of the words "minimum cubic footage" which we understood before the witness started. Let us get down to his connection with the things that are mentioned in the indictment as soon as you can.
DR. MAYER: May it please Your Honor, I agree with you. However, may I point out briefly that the statement concerning this space rate and the plans and framework and the observance of cubic footage are important because that actually mentions the main activity of the defendant. That is the reason why, in my opinion, it was necessary to give a clearer picture to this Tribunal what took up the time and the activity of the defendant in case it should show later on that he actually participated in those incriminating matters--or rather that he did not participate in those incriminating matters, and that he could know anything about them.
BY DR. MAYER:
Q Witness, I would like to ask you now very briefly about the Court No. II, Case No. 4.plans for framework and I would like to ask you in what connection they are with the observance of cubic footage or with space rate.
But I only want you to answer all those questions to a very small extent in order to show what your activity was.
A I shall try to be as brief as possible about the term "plans for framework". However, I would like to point out to the Tribunal that if someone looks through my affidavit, it becomes rather unclear as to what my activity really was.
Plans for framework and plans for construction are two entirely different things. According to the construction planning, you can build; according to the plans for framework, you cannot build, however.
On the construction site itself you cannot build according to those plans.
I would like to give an example here. For instance, you have the plans for framework for a house.
Those are just diagrams with numerous red, blue and colored lines. It is known that in the case of a chart of a sick person, you can see, when the patient went to hospital, when he was accepted there, and when he was released. You have various lines which go through those lines. You can see the medical treatment, care and clothing.
From all those lines you can see, among other things, that the lines of the average patient do not cross the lines of the sick who have an infectious disease. For the expert, the idea is to make the lines and to plan them in such a way that no misunderstandings can occur. In other words, it doesn't contain technical details or actual work as used by the carpenter on the site. It just deals with technical and administrative matters -
THE PRESIDENT: Now, if you just tell us that there is a difference between working plans and preliminary sketches we would know the whole story, and he need not bother about infectious diseases or anything of that kind. We know that when you start you make pre Court No. II, Case No. 4.liminary sketches, and then the architect makes the working plans.
DR. MAYER: The difference which is to be proved is that there is a space rate and also plans for framework, and you have got to differentiate between the two because you can't use either of them for a construction. Those plans that can be used for the construction were not completed by the defendant. That kind of planning and the execution of the construction was with other agencies than with the defendant. When this difference becomes clear, I will be able to continue.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
BY DR. MAYER:
Q Witness, did the field of task--as you described it during your field of activity with Amtsgruppe C--change in any way?
A Yes, twice. The first time when, in 1942, the business plan of the Main Office appeared: construction and budget. That was my main department so far called Amt, or office, and I myself was the office chief, although I was not accepted as such until the very end. New fields of tasks had been added. The main department C-2-1, Ammunition; C-2, was the thing that I just said; C-2-1 was Clothing Department; C-2-2 was Ammunitions, Weapons and Communications. And the rural settlement so far was considered Economic and Special Constructions at the time.
However, those things were rectified a little while later, and they appeared in this organizational chart here as C-2-6. That is, Special Construction Work. There was a second change towards the end of 1942. The Department Napola and National Schools were transferred to Office C-4. At the same time the man in charge of that department took it over. That is Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Vier. And instead of that main department, Napola and National Political School Homestead Construction were interchanged.
Q The change, however, could only be seen in those outside symptoms--or was it really that your activity as such also change?
That is, as far as setting up the plans is concerned?
A No; that remained about the same.
Q Did your rank in the course of years change?
A Yes. On the 30th of January 1944 I was promoted to Obersturmbannfuehrer.
Q What was the rank, the official rank that the rank of an Obersturmbannfuehrer corresponded to in the army?
A Sturmbannfuehrer in the construction and administration of the army is a Baurat with the rank of major, and Obersturmbannfuehrer corresponds to chief construction counsellor with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel.
Q Witness, I shall now come to your fields of tasks individually, and I want you to take a look at Document Book No. 2, Document 1288, Exhibit No. 44. This can be found on page 76 of the English and page 82 of the German Document Book. It deals with the organizational chart of Amtsgruppe C of the WVHA of the first of January 1943.
Q. On page 12 of the German text you will find it in your book and it is also on page 5 of the English copy, under the title of Office Construction 2, Special Construction Tasks -- what was the meaning of that term, the title of your field of tasks?
A. May I say in advance that the term used there on the wall which speaks of construction tasks does not quite correspond to what is contained in the English document book, NO-498, Exhibit Number 47 in Document Book Number II, "Special building matters." I don't understand English myself well; and therefore I can't tell if the two terms actually mean the same or if they mean something different. But at least I just wanted to point it out.
As far as special constructions and the term are concerned, I can say the following. In the field of construction exactly as in all the other fields of free enterprise, a specialization expert appeared in the last ten years just as in any other professional special field. That is to say, construction of cities, construction of dams, and much more can be seen there. That special training started in the technical high schools; and the people who had been trained that way were used with special groups of city planning and state planning offices. Dr. Kammler also comprised such large series of fields of tasks as special tasks.
The plan was taken over by the Luftwaffe because there were two such departments in the Reich Air Ministry. There was the Hochbau Department Number 2; and you have there those special tasks which I have already mentioned when I spoke about my activities in the Reich Air Ministry, the chief of which was Dr. Kammler. Under special construction tasks, this plan is just like in the Amtsgruppe C, Office C II, for instance, where all the various special fields of construction are contained.
Q. Further down in the same page you will also find a department C II ZBV. What were the tasks you understood under C II ZBV?
A. The ZV Department, as can be seen in the back, is strictly police matters and construction.
It dealt with the various construction codes of the counties. Every county, every president of a county had its own code of construction. That's the way it was in Germany. There were various regulations, particularly for those people who were working here today and somewhere else tomorrow. It was absolutely impossible to find your way through this muddle of regulations. It was very hampering when carrying out the construction permission. That was the reason why I had the task under this Department CV to compile the various regulations according to the alphabet or according to abbreviations, so that they could be used by the various construction departments for their guidance.
At the same time, however, this compilation was to be used as a basis of the negotiations which had been prepared for after the war concerning a new construction law or construction code; and in this main department in 1943, in collaboration there, they tried to procure two trade transfers to the Waffen SS. There was one in Guden and one in Goenitz in Western Prussia. I had to carry out the negotiations with the office for space in the Reich, which was competent, according to the regulations, as to which office would then get the approval from certain ministries in order to be able to carry out the construction. This was the procedure of the so-called Auslegungsverfahren founded for the parade grounds for the army.
I received another task that I carried out in 1944 or 1945, in June or July. I received the order actually to teach in that particular SS school in Arolsen and in that leadership school about construction work. That was the work which took up my time from July 1944 with very short interruptions up to the bitter end in 1945.
Q. Before you speak about the sub-departments in your office, I should like to point out to you that it can be seen from the organizational chart that in all sub-departments of your Office C II it is repeatedly, "Auditing of the construction planning," and "Auditing of the Preliminary Sketches". Therefore, I should like to ask you if you had anything to do with the checking of the construction projects as such; or what can be understood?