DR. SCHMIDT: Your Honor, it is not my intention to read all these regulations. However, I would appreciate it if this Tribunal would take judicial notice of this.
Q. I shall now deal with the question to the defendant and I would like to ask you witness, to please give this Tribunal a short description of the field of tasks of your office A-IV in the WVHA?
A. The auditing office A-IV organizationally was part of the WVHA. However, with reference to its field of tasks it was more of an auxilliary part of the auditing court of the German Reich. With the transfer of the supervision of the Treasury to the medium levels, when WVHA was established, the WVHA auditing office A-IV only had the preliminary checking of the accounting of those various official treasuries, however, was not in the competence of the WVHA but exclusively with the auditing court. In other words neither the chief of Amtsgruppe A nor the chief WVHA could order the prelininary checking themselves. The auditing court only was the one that could do this. The checking office A-IV, therefore, at certain periods of time had to send a report about auditing work done to the auditing court. On the basis of that report, the auditing court then decided which audits will be carried out by the court of audits, which audits will be carried out by office A-IV, and which preliminary checks will not be made at all. The Auditing Court was from the Reich Government, independent and it was subordinate only to the Reich laws. As it can be seen from paragraph 118 of the Reich Budget regulations.
Q. Your Honor, may I read this particular paragraph 118 from the Reich Budget Order. It is just one sentence it reads: "The court of Audits is an independent organization as far as the Reich is concerned and is therefore only under the supervision of the highest Reich authority according to the law."
A. According to paragraph 97 of the Reich Budget Code the court of audits had to supervise the entire auditing matters, with that checked in incomes or expenses of the SS organization. The auditing consists of two parts: First of all, the preliminary checking by the administrative office itself and second, in the checking, which is the final checking by the court of audits. The final checking of the auditing court during the war extended particularly to the following points: First of all, if the incomes and expenses both factually and as a budget matter were justified and if they had a bill for each of the expenses or income. Furthermore, if they had acted economically. I shall refer here to paragraph 96 of the Reich Bidget Code. The dim of the preliminary checking was to prepare the checking of the various dues and expenses by the court of audits. I shall refer here to paragraph 10 of the preliminary checking regulations of the court of audits for the provinces.
Q. Witness, may I interpolate. When you quoted paragraph 96 of the Reich Budget Code apparently you only thought of paragraphs 2 and 3. Paragraph 1 reads that the preliminary checking of the accounts has to extend to the final checking of the budget whether the budget has been complied with. You only spoke of the checking during the war. Did anything change in that respect as compared with the time before the war?
A. I should also like to refer to paragraph 2 here. Paragragh 1 could no longer be valid for the war because there was no such thing as a closed budget.
Q. So that really with reference to that the accounting and auditing during the war no longer had to deal with the M-2-3-HD-June 16-Love-Simha.
Budget?
A. Yes.
Q. In your statements you have repeatedly used the words "accounts and checking of accounts." What do you mean by the word "accounts" in that respect?
A. By accounts I mean are those slips and bills which are to be submitted according to the law and to be submitted with all the other necessary bills, that is to say, to balance the accounts. This can also be seen from paragraph 2 of the preliminary checking regulation for the provinces.
Q. This particular regulation which you just mentioned, did that apply to your preliminary checking activity within the Waffen-SS?
A. Yes, the regulations about the preliminary checking with the Waffen-SS generally speaking were parallel with the orders of the Army but those regulations were coordinated up with the particular regulations for the provinces.
Q. For your preliminary checking activity did you have a special order from the WVHA?
A. No, I didn't have a special order from the WVHA, there was no such thing. As I already stated before the Army regulations were competent for me.
Q. When was it that this preliminary checking activity of your office began?
A. The activity of the chocking office could only really begin when the accounting had been carried out with all the vouchers by those agencies carrying on the accounts and after they had been submitted. The checking office was told about the expenses of those agencies usually several months after the expenses had already occurred.
Q. Did your checking office have the possibility to actually contribute when these regulations were set up?
A. The checking office did not have any possibility to contribute or participate in the establishment of the regulations of the administrative agencies or to influence it in any way. It only heard about the various administrative decisions afterwards, subsequently, when the vouchers were submitted to office A-IV. However, at that particular moment the various administrative decisions had already been made long ago. Administrative decisions without any financial result never became known to office A-IV.
Q. Can you give us an example of an administrative without financial effects?
A. Every regulation which was not in connection with money or money transfers. When Amtsgruppe B, ordered that the clothing store was to give one thousand pairs of gloves to Reserve Batallion then this was administrative action which did not become known to office A-IV.
June-16-M-MJ-3-1-Schwab-(Simha)
Q. Did your office carry out any supervisory activity with reference to various other offices of the WVHA when checking?
A. No. The Office A-4 neither had the possibility, nor the power, to do so, to supervise other agencies of the WVHA in carrying out administrative regulations.
The Office A-4 only would act when the administrative decrees and regulations had been concluded, and had only to carry out the additional, subsequent checking, from a treasury or budgetary side, to find out if there were any mistakes in a formal, factual or accounting direction.
Q. You just spoke of mistakes in formal, factual, or accounting respects. Is it correct that the preliminary checking was subdivided into these three directions?
A. Yes. The preliminary checking actually consisted of the formal, factual and in the accounting way of the bills. The formal preliminary checking, first of all, had to check up and see if the bills were correctly and completely computed. The accounting actually meant the re-checking of the accounts and the finding out that all the figures contained in the bills were correct, as compared with each other. The actual preliminary checking was carried out to the effect to see if the budgetary regulations had been complied with. I refer here to paragraph 16 of the Preliminary Checking Code of the Provinces.
Q. This reference to paragraph 16 here, however, only refers to the factual preliminary checking?
A. Yes, and as far as the formal accounting is concerned, paragraph 14 is concerned. And paragraphs 14, 15, and 16 concerned the accountings etc.
Q. I would like to refer to the details of which the witness has not spoken now; they are contained in those regulations here.
Witness are you in a position to explain to us the reason for the checking carried out, part of which, according to your statements, this preliminary checking was?
And could you explain to us briefly so that we can all understand you?
A. The tasks of the preliminary checking, generally speaking, as I have already stated, are contained in paragraph 16 of the Reich Budget Regulation. The auditing, Office, like any other accounting and auditing has the sole purpose to find certain mistakes or certain violations of regulations, and eliminate them in such a way that they will not be repeated again, by taking the necessary measures.
The existence itself of an auditing office has a good effect in itself. It has preventive effect.
Q. Witness, you were telling us about the accounting as such, and auditing. Was that auditing a regular one? Was it a current auditing?
A. Before the war, at the beginning of the war, the preliminary checking of the agencies who wrote their accounts took place at regular intervals. In the course of the war, however, this activity limited itself because the biggest part of my auditing officials had to join the army. Furthermore, the transportation difficulties, became more and more complicated the longer the war lasted. The results of that was that the vouchers became less and less regular, and that they were submitted to Office A -4 much later. It was thus that the court audits of the German Reich had to carry out spot checks, and they ordered that the preliminary checking take place at longer periods of time.
Q. You told us that the court of audits carried out spot checks and that it had ordered preliminary checkings to take place every once in a while at a longer period of time. According to the law, was the court of audits in a position to renounce a regular and effective preliminary checking?
A. Yes. That was permissible. I shall refer now to paragraph 92 of the Reich Budgetary Code in the War Control Law of the 5th of June 1942.
It went even so far that the court of audits could renounce accounting, as such.
DR. SCHMIDT: (Counsel for the defendant Vogt); Your Honor, I would like to read this particular regulation which the defendant was referring to which is paragraph 92 of the Reich Budgetary Code, It says there, and I shall quote:
"The court of audits may renounce the total or part of the auditing done by the administrative offices temporaily or permanently.
THE PRESIDENT: Paragraph 3, is it not?
DR. SCHMIDT: Yes, it is paragraph 92, No. 3.
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q. Witness, what do you understand by spot checks?
A. When I carried out an accounting--that is to say, a "spot" check--the following things were done. First of all, the female workers worked out, with calculating machines the final account. Secondly, female employees also checked up on the fact if sums had been carried forward correctly in the accounts, and if they corresponded with the entries. Thirdly, the factual checking took place by the auditors themselves. Particularly, special expenses such as payer were checked. Factual accounting, did not regard any bills below one thousand marks. As far as other bills were concerned, above one thousand marks, they were checked in a spot-check way, namely, special expenses were checked. Factual checking was also carried out to the effect to see if all the expenses, had been carried out according to regulations.
Q. What was the difference, according to you between that particular checking, which was described by you as spot checks, and those which had been dealt with by codes and also those checking and audits which were carried out before the war at regular intervals?
A. Contrary to the regular preliminary audit, the spot check checking did not take place at regular intervals. In other words, it was not a current checking, and it depended on whether there was the necessary auditing personnel.
Apart from that, however, the spot checking ing was carried out to expedite its procedure, as I have already stated before.
Q. Due to the fact that no regular preliminary checking was carried out, was not the whole purpose of accounting being endangered?
A. No, the restriction was not known to the local agencies. They had to be prepared for a preliminary checking at any time. Apart from that the Court of Audits carried out preliminary auditing, even though there was nothing else but just spot checks. In spite of that fact that would mean a certain super vision, because no agency knew if it would not be the one that would be spot checked.
Q. And where was it that all the bills of all the SS agencies were checked up on?
A. Generally speaking, the agencies concerned sent their bills to Office A-4. In certain cases, Office A-4, would also carry out local preliminary checks. Gradually, however, these local preliminary checks were discontinued, because there we were short of personnel.
Q. This restriction of the auditing activity, how far did that have an influence on the continued existence of your office?
A. During the last months of the war in the agency of the preliminary checking office it was not possible to carry out a preliminary checking so that practically speaking, the activity in my office was virtually eliminated.
Q. Witness, may I interrupt you here? Would you explain to this Tribunal in detail the reasons why this preliminary checking activity was made more difficult?
A. First of all, we didn't have enough expert auditors. What I still had at my disposal was for the greatest part female personnel who just carried out merely, regular routine work; as far as expert auditors were concerned from the middle of 1942 on, or, say, 1944, I only had four administrative officers at my disposal. That situation forced the Court of Auditors to deal with the further existence of my office. That was the reason why I made the request that the office be entirely dissolved, due to the fact there wasn't much work to be done. This dissolution, however, was ordered later on and made effective the 1st of April.
Q. Of what year?
A. In 1945. It was in 1945. I myself was released. My personnel was transferred and the female personnel was released.
Q. Could you tell this Tribunal what the personnel strength of your office was in the years before that?
A. The highest personnel strength I had was in 1942. At that time the number of examiners, in other words, administrative officers, amounted to from 25 to 30; auxiliary forces, 20 NCO's and 30 to 40 female personnel. The period, when the people began getting released, began in 1942, and more radically, in 1943. When in the summer of 1943 my office was evacuated to Fuerstenberg, I had approximately 8 to 10 leaders and about 8 to 10 sub-leaders, or NCO's and 30 female workers. Then the release of personnel went on and on until there was hardly anybody left.
Q. You said before, witness -
JUDGE PHILLIPS: All told, how many did he have at the height of his personnel of his office?
WITNESS: Well, towards the beginning of 1942 there were approximately 70 to 80 people and at the end there was a total of 40 including the auxiliary forces, including about 20 to 30 women amongst them.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Does 70 to 80 include everybody that was in your office or under your command?
WITNESS: Yes.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: How many just before they closed, in April, 1945?
WITNESS: You mean, employees, including the leaders and everything?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Personnel.
WITNESS: You mean, including myself?
JUDGE PHILLIPS: Yes.
WITNESS: Well, there were five officers, furthermore, 4 to 6 NCO's.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: We just want the total, just the total when your office was closed, the total.
WITNESS: Well, let's see, now --- about 35.
Q. Witness, when you stated 35 people in your office, a personnel strength of 35, what was the date you selected the number in the office when it was dissolved? On the 1st of April, or do you mean a date prior to that?
A. As the release of the female personnel took place from January, 1945, on, in other words, the personnel strength which I just mentioned could be considered the personnel strength in January, 1945, because it was then that these people were released week after week.
Q. Are you in a position to tell this Tribunal the personnel strength as it was immediately before the dissolution of your office?
A. Well, there were left myself, one officer, and two typists.
Q. Witness, you explained today how the Court of Audits dealt with these personnel difficulties, by doing without regular scheduled preliminary checks. Did the Court of Audits during the war facilitate your preliminary checking in any way?
A. Yes, the Court of Audits renounded all preliminary checking with some agencies among the Waffen SS.
Q. And which agencies were those?
A. There was, for instance, the pay office of the Waffen-SS in Dachau. For years that agency had been in a state of being established reorganized. That was the reason why the Court of Audits deferred the checking of the pay agency. A checking with regard to the accounts was not necessary, because that particular office had HolleritMachines, where checking was no longer necessary. Apart from that, the preliminary checking of the clothing factory of the Waffen SS was no longer carried out. Here also a checking of the accounts was not necessary because that agency also was carrying out the bookkeeping and the accounting with Hollerit Machines. Apart from that factory was a commercial installation and I didn't have the necessary experts to carry out the checking. As such personnel was available in the Court of Audits, the Court of Audits carried out the checking of that agency itself.
DR. SCHMIDT: May it please, Your Honors, in this connection with the clothing agency of the SS, I would like to introduce an affidavit, which is Document Joseph Vogt 1-1 in the document book on pages 36 to 37. I would like to introduce this affidavit by Fritz Lechler, and that is Exhibit Joseph Vogt 8, and I would like to read this affidavit, and I shell quote: After the usual initial sentence the affidavit reads:
"Since the establishment of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office on 1 February 1942 I was Chief of Office B II (Supply of Clothing for the troops). As such I was charged with the care for the clothing and the equipment of the Waffen SS. Until 1 April 1944 the requirements of the Waffen. SS were reported to the OKW by the Office B IV (Raw materials and supplies) and from then on, after this Office had been dissolved, by my office. The OKW distributed the raw material quotas allotted by the Reich Ministry for Economy (later the Armament Ministry to the Waffen SS.
After the allocation of the quotas by the Reich Ministry for Economy the procurement of clothing for the concentration camps was handled by Office B-IV until 1 April 1944, and from then on by Office B II through the firms named by the Armament Ministry.
The bills for shipments to the Waffen SS as well as those to the administrative offices of the concentration camps were sent to the clothing depot of the Waffen SS, and there they were paid from advance payments of the finance office of Office A II of the Economic and Administrative Main Office. At the end of the year the clothing depot accounted for the advance payments by issuing bills for all shipments made to the Waffen SS and the administration offices of the concentration camps.
As far as the budget year 1940 is concerned, I know that it was pro-examined during the year 1941 by a certified accountant with the name Schuler.
At that time Schuler came into the administrative office of the clothing depot of the Waffen SS in Dachau, of which I was chief at that time, and examined there the budget year 1940. At that time Schuler came from Berlin. I do not know whether he belonged to the auditing department of the Administrative Office of the Waffen SS or to the Main Office Budget and Building Office I. As far as I know, the clothing depot was not longer pre-examined in the later budget years. In my opinion the reason therefore was that the auditing office A IV of the Economic and Administrative Main Office was lacking trained personnel in commerce for such pre-examinations.
At the same time I was also Chief of Office W-VI, which at first was called Textil and Lederverwertung (Textile and leather Utilization) and later Deutsche Textil and Bekleidungswerke. Office A IV had nothing to do with the pre-examinations of the budget of this office, the examinations were made by the Staff W."
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
Q Witness, you heard that according to this statement made by Fritz Lechler, a last preliminary examination of the clothing factory for the budget year of 1940 was carried out in 1941 by a man named Schuler. Do you know if Schuler of the Auditing Department of the Waffen SS in Berlin, the chief of which you were, was a member of that organization?
A Schuler for a period of time was a member of the checking office of the Administrative Office of the Waffen SS. However, he was later on transferred to the checking office of Amt. AI-1 and used there. When Schuler at the time, that is, in 1941, carried out the preliminary checking of the clothing factory, he was already a member of Office A-I-l with the Main Office Budget and Construction.
Q May I understand from your answer that your Office A-IV never carried out the preliminary checking of the clothing works of the Waffen-SS?
A Office A-IV, as I stated before, by arrangement with the Court of Audits, no longer carried out a check of that factory there, because it would not have been possible to do so, namely to examine a commercial enterprise with non-expert personnel.
Q Can you give us more examples where a preliminary checking of the accounts was not carried out by your office?
AAll those particular accounts which necessitated expert auditing were concerned. Also the expenses for medical purposes were to be considered, bills for the medicines, bills to buy medical equipment, dentists bills, and so forth, and so forth. The factual checking of those accounts, according to paragraph 82 of the Reich Code for Accounting, had to be carried out by the Medical Office because the expert personnel necessary for such a job were there. A preliminary checking of the Supply Office had been renounced because the Court of Audits wanted to carry out the checking itself, because there was not the expert personnel in my office.
DR. SCHMIDT: Your Honor, may I read to you the Legal Regula Court No. II, Case No. 4.tion which the defendant just referred to.
It is contained in paragraph 82 of the Reich Accounting Regulation, Document 5, Exhibit 5, on page 18 or 19. I shall quote there, paragraph 82:
"Extent of expert examination and ascertainment of facts:
"Paragraph 1. If the examination and ascertainment of vouchers and receipts requires special knowledge, as, for instance, in the field of architecture, medicine, or chemistry, an examination carried out by an expert will have to be made in addition to the general one."
Q Witness, can you tell the Tribunal how the preliminary checking of the construction expenses were shown?
AAmtsgruppe C was the competent office for construction matters. The checking of those construction expenses were under the supervision of C-VI under Standartenfuehrer Eirenschmalz. Eirenschmalz in his affidavit made statements to that effect -- namely that the Department auditing was responsible in his office for the preliminary checking of all construction bills or construction accounts of the construction agencies under Amtsgruppe C. The final examination of these expenses was under the supervision of the Court of Audits.
Q Excuse me, Witness, I would like to point out that the affidavit of the Defendant Eirenschmalz which the witness was referring to is contained in Document Book No. 1, and that is Document NO2613, Prosecution Exhibit No. 12, this Eirenschmalz affidavit. Would you continue, Witness?
A Office C-VI was in charge of the preliminary checking of those construction bills and accounts for which certain funds had been approved by the Reich Finance Minister and the accounting office extended it over a longer period of time. Office A-IV had nothing to do with these construction matters. Only the expenses for the current construction work, minor repair work, after having been approved by a special agency were carried out by the particular agency in charge, and they were booked. It was then submitted to Office A-IV, for a Court No. II, Case No. 4.preliminary checking.
Q Did this preliminary checking activity extend also over accounts of concentration camp treasuries?
Court No. II, Case No. 4.
A Yes. We established the WVHA on 1 February 1942. The preliminary checking of the treasuries of the concentration camps was also established, and that by transferring it to Office A-4. Prior to that this preliminary checking was in the hands of the preliminary checking office with the Main Office Budget and Construction as Office 1-1. At that time, however, due to the --
THE PRESIDENT: Office 1-1, that does not tell us anything.
THE WITNESS: Roman numeral I dash I.
THE PRESIDENT: What division, which office?
THE WITNESS: Office One Budget.
THE PRESIDENT: What Amts are you talking about, what division?
THE WITNESS: I am talking about the Main Amt Construction and Budget.
DR. SCHMIDT: Your Honor, in order to explain my point. In Document Book No. 2 of the Prosecution there is document NO-620. According to what I have here it is Prosecution Exhibit No. 33. This document is an organizational chart of the Main Office Budget and Construction, and under "Amt-1-Budget" it says, and that is Main Department 1-1, it says, "Pay Budget and Official Treasuries Construction Administration," and furthermore, it says, "Preliminary Checking of matters concerning accounts SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Writzel."
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q Witness, is that the Amt which you just meant when you answered that question?
A Yes.
Q All right. Will you continue then, witness?
A At that time, however, due to the general situation of the war, the preliminary checking ability of Office A-4 had already been restricted, and only spot checks were carried out. This applies for the accounts which were submitted to Office A-4, and also to the accounts which were carried out at the agency itself. So far as I Court No. II, Case No. 4.know my auditors at the time only carried out local checks and the rarer cases.
Then also, generally speaking, only in connection with the preliminary checking of the garrison treasuries.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Robbins, let me ask you a question about this Document NO-620. Is this a chart of the organization of the Main Office before February 1, 1942?
MR. ROBBINS: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, that is where the confusion came in.
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q Witness, you just told us that the preliminary checking of the accounts was only carried out locally within the framework of these particular agencies only with respect to the garrison treasuries. Will you explain this, witness, to this Tribunal a little more in detail?
A In reference to the circulation of cash and in order to save personal dealings with treasuries, from the end of 1942 on certain garrisons with several SS-agencies in the centralization of the treasury system was carried out. The various SS-agencies had to transfer their treasury deals to the garrison treasury; they themselves only kept the so-called pay offices; their pay office only took charge, or took care of small camp payments, while all the other treasuries' procedure, particularly I am referring now to those where no cash was involved, were dealt with by the garrison treasury. The result of this was that the voucher accounts and the bills of the concentration camps of the treasury, which had been attached to the garrison treasury of accounts, were sent to the garrison treasury, and they were prepared there for a preliminary checking together with the bills and accounts of the garrison treasury. It was thus that the accounts of the concentration camp treasuries, generally speaking, no longer were noticeable for much when the preliminary checking was carried out. The Court of Auditors of the German Reich, before the establishment of the WVHA, carried out the auditing of the concentration camp bills and accounts Court No. II, Case No. 4.itself.
That procedure was also followed after the transfer of the preliminary checking to Office A-4, and that was in the WVHA, and it kept all of that. I refer here to statements made by Councillor Haleck. The plan carried out the checking and accounts of the agencies of the Waffen-SS.
DR. SCHMIDT: Your Honor, may I point out that that statement of Amtsrat Haleck is contained in my Document Book as Document No. 9. That is on page -- it is an affidavit which I would like to introduce as Exhibit No. 9. It is on page 29 of the English. In this connection I would like to read only that particular paragraph which deals with the local audits of the Court of Audits. This was what the defendant is referring to. It says therein, Roman numeral II of this affidavit by Amtsrat Haleck: "Local Audits by the Financial Controlling Court." That is the Court of Audits. That is on page 31: "The Financial Controlling Court made in addition to the audits at the Berlin offices of the Waffen-SS also local audits at outlying field offices, as for instance at the clothing depot of the Waffen-SS and at the administrative offices of stations where large units were quartered. In connection with the local audit of the administrative offices of these stations there was in two or three cases an audit made of the accounts of the administrative offices for concentration camps of the Waffen-SS. The Financial Controlling Court limited these audits to tests at random of the revenue and expenditures of the Reich."
BY DR. SCHMIDT:
Q Witness, did you participate in this spot checking of the revenue and expenses of the Reich in Office A-4 personally?
A No, I personally never did deal with the preliminary checks. The books and vouchers were examined by my auditors; those were administrative officers. Those auditors worked in various regions, and they had their assigned duties, and that is by assigning one auditor for the Berlin Region, one each in the Southern areas, the Northern and Western areas, and our Eastern army district at home.
