A My initials are not there so I am sure that I did not see it at the time.
Q Let me draw your attention to the report contained under 2-d. What can you tell us about that?
A Of course today I cannot remember these many reports which used to reach me. I deduce from the wording of this report that without any doubt the Communist courier mentioned under paragraph 2-d was shot in combat. The wording seems to leave me to feel that this was not a reprisal measure. The words, "during reconnaissance activities," make it clear beyond any doubt that we were concerned with a combat action here.
Q Now, another case; let me show you the daily report of 24 August 1943 which is Document NOKW-1758, Exhibit 549, contained in Volume 24, on page 251 of the English and page 184 of the German text. In that daily report it says under the heading, "Croat 1st Mountain Brigade", that two persons who belonged to a certain detachment were shot.
Did the 1st Croat Mountain Brigade come under the 69th Reserve Corps?
A No, they were not subordinate to me.
Q Can you tell us whether the incidents mentioned in the report amounted to a reprisal measure?
A These two individuals to whom reference is made here were, I presume, shot in combat as after the detonation there was an engagement with the bands.
Q Another incident: let me show you Document NOKW509, which is Exhibit 340, contained in Volume XIV, on page 36 and 37 of the English and page 22 of the German text.
Who applied to the Air Force Commander in Zagreb for the destruction of the villages mentioned in the report by an air raid?
A I don't know.
Q In the period of time when you were Commanding General of the 69th Reserve Corps, did you get to know anything about this incident?
A I can no longer recall this incident nor do I find any reference in the whole of the war diary to this affair.
Q Can you tell us anything else about the document?
A This document has no date to begin with. Therefore, the document does not make it clear when the incident reported in the document occurred, particularly not whether it occurred during the period of time when I was in command of the Corps.
Q Can you tell us whether these villages were destroyed by the Luftwaffe?
A I do not know because I cannot find any indications in the war diary.
Q Another incident: let me show you the daily report of 12 November 1943 which is Document NOKW-658, Exhibit 375, in Volume XVI, on page 27 of the English and page 67 of the German text, the report mentions under III-b that 9 bandits were shot.
Is that a reprisal measure?
A The wording of that report makes it quite clear that 9 bandits were shot in battle; it says during a reconnaissance operation on Punitooci.
Q Now, I want you to look at the daily report of 16 November 1943, contained in Document NOKW-658, Exhibit 375, in Volume XVI, on page 29 of the English and page 71 of the German, the shooting mentioned under III-e of 24 bandits and a Cossack who had deserted.
Is this a reprisal measure?
A It is not. Here again the wording makes it perfectly clear that the partisans and the deserter were shot in combat The previous sentence says quite clearly that 12 bandits were captured. That shows that the bandits who were captured by the German troops were treated as prisoners of war.
Q Well, that brings us to the end of our discussion of Count 3 of the Indictment. Let us now discuss Count 4. Once again I shall hand you Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume 14, on page 18 of the English and page 13 of the German text. I would like to draw your attention, in this connection, to paragraph 7 of the order dated the 15th of September 1943.
Witness, why were the areas mentioned in paragraph 7 to be evacuated?
A For purely military purposes, to safeguard these militarily so important areas.
Q Do you know what type of labor allocation was intended?
A No, the Army was going to give us an order to that effect. As far as I know nothing further was done in this respect.
Q Let me show you a letter by the LXIXth Reserve Corps, dated the 23rd of September 1943. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume 14, on page 19 of the English. Is this a complete document?
A No, it is not complete.
Q Can yon tell us why it is not?
A It is a copy. There is no signature.
Q Would you please repeat that sentence?
A The last part of the document is missing.
Q Has it been signed?
A There is no signature, as I said before. It is not even certified.
Q Is it part of an original document?
A It is a copy.
Q Does it bear your initials?
A I cannot find any initials on this document.
Q Did you issue this order?
A This order was issued by my Chief of Staff.
Q Where were you at the time?
A On the 23rd of September I was on leave.
Q In this connection I would like to show you the order by the Corps Headquarters of the LXIXth Reserve Corps, dated the 6th of October 1943. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume 14, on page 21 of the English Document Book and page 15 of the German Document Book.
Did you sign that order?
A The order shows the signature of my Chief of Staff, although it should read "Steinbeck" and not "Mederbach."
Q Why did you not issue this order?
A In that period of time I was absent from the troops for some days at Sarajevo, as the War Diary shows.
Q Did you know about the order?
A It is rather striking that this document has not been signed by me. It was my custom to personally initial all documents that were submitted to me. Therefore, I am inclined to assume that I was not shown this document. I rather think that the Chief of Staff informed me quite generally of the order, without going into details.
Q What was the significance of the orders issued by the Corps on the 23 of September and the 6th of October?
A Those two orders are no basic orders, or orders of great importance therefore, therefore they did not intensify the order that had been issued before. They are merely regulations for the carrying out of the Army order of the 15th of September.
Q Why was the order of the 6th of October issued?
A The regulations by the Division show me that we were concerned with inquiries from the Division concerning the Army order which I just mentioned -- at least I suppose it might have been. This order deals with the intention of evacuating areas and demands that reports be made about this point.
Q Let me hand you now, General, a report made by the Corps to the Army, of the 3rd of November 1943, Volume 14, on page 45 of the English and page 26-a of the German text. It is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340.
Why was this letter written?
A You cannot clearly see that from the letter. In the last paragraph of the letter reference is made to blunders which will be limited in the future. Evacuation measures to be taken later by the 187th Reserve Division are also mentioned. But you cannot see anything further from this letter.
Q Who was the competent for the evacuation?
A The divisions were competent.
Q Did the Corps have the right to reach decisions in this matter?
A No, the ultimate decision rested with the Army. You can see in the Army order of the 15th of September 1943, in the last paragraph, that this is so. Reports are expected about planned evacuations there.
Q The evacuations mentioned in those two reports -- were they ever carried out?
A No, as late as March I found that everything was in the old state. I saw nothing of evacuations. I believe also that a witness has confirmed this here. The area had not been evacuated. You could see that without any difficulty. The villages along the railway were still inhabited. This becomes clear from a teletype by the Army, where it is recommended that no evacuations should be effected. Then, I also found an entry in the Diary -- I think quite late in March -- which also shows that no evacuations had been effected yet.
Q Were the male inhabitants concentrated in labor camps?
AAs the inhabitants had remained in their villages, they were also in labor camps.
Q Were there in the Corps area any labor camps of the Wehrmacht?
A No.
Q As the Commanding General of the LXIXth Corps, did you have any authority concerning concentration camps?
A No, I had no authority concerning concentration camps.
Q Was there in the Corps area under your command any collecting camps for partisans?
A I don't know what the Prosecution means by that. There were collecting points for prisoners of war which were under the command of the division? These collecting points were run in accordance with the provisions of the Geneva Convention. Prisoners were treated in accordance with those conventions. In those camps the partisans were accommodated as a first measure, and then they were sent on to the territorial commanders or the Croats. No such prisoner of war camp was under the Corps directly.
Q Now, let me hand you the letter of the 25th of November 1943, addressed to the XVth Mountain Corps. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume 14 on page 43 of the English, page 26 of the German.
Did you sign this document?
A I did not. My Chief of Staff did. By the way it should not be "Mederbach," but it should be "Steinbeck."
Q Did you have any knowledge of this letter at the time?
A I don't think so because It doesn't show my initials.
Q What was the purpose of this letter?
A It was purely an inquiry by the Corps to the adjoining Corps, namely, the XVth Mountain Corps, concerning a possible evacuation and concerning the clearing of the area on both sides of the railway purely an inquiry.
Q What was the purpose of the measures mentioned in the letter?
A Only military security for this most important line.
Q Can you tell us whether these measures were actually carried out?
A They were not. I believe that also General von Leyser has confirmed this.
Q Now, I am showing you the order of the 24th of December 1943, Document NOKW-657, Exhibit. No. 376, contained in Volume XVI, on page 19 of the German, page 37 of the English. Did you issue that order?
A I did not. This order was not issued by me. It was issued by my Chief of Staff, Colonel Steinbeck, while I was away on Christmas leave.
Q Because of this order were any civilian individuals sent to Germany?
A No, not as far as I know.
Q The Prosecution have, as far as Count 4 of the Indictment is concerned, submitted Document NOKW-658, in Volume XVI, on pages 35 and 36, pages 22 and 23 of the German, which is Exhibit No, 375. This document does not contain anything incriminating as far as Count 4 is concerned. At least I could not find anything myself. I assume that the document was submitted because the teletype letter of the 16th of September, under Paragraph II f was misinterpreted, which may be found on page 9 of the English and page 21 of the German. Let me ask you, therefore, what is the meaning of the term "recruiting by force?
"
A The term, as used in the teletype, means that the partisans and not the Germans used coercion when they recruited people.
Q Who was it who recruited by force the men mentioned in the document?
A Recruiting by coercion in Croatia was not carried out by German troops, but by Communist bands which becomes clear from some document. I am afraid I don't know the details.
Q The document mentioned just now, if the Tribunal pleases, is Document NOKW-808, Exhibit No. 354, in Volume XIV, on page 80 of the German and page 106 of the English text. In lines four and five of the English text it says there, concerning the activity of the 19th and the 14th Cordon Brigade that the Brigade obviously limited themselves in the territory occupied by them to compulsory recruitment. Another point: now let me show you the letter by the Plenipotentiary of the Croat Government, dated the 2nd of December 1943. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume XIV, on page 46 of the English and Page 27 of the German text. Was the labor allocation based on compulsory recruiting of Croat citizens ordered by the LXIXth Corps?
A It was not. The Corps was not connected with this at all.
Q Was this compulsory labor allocation ordered by the troops under your command?
A My units also were not connected with this affair.
Q Who was it that ordered this labor allocation?
A The War Diary which has come in from Washington makes it clear that it was the Reich Main Security Office -- the RSHA 0 which was connected with this business.
Q In this connection, I beg to draw the Tribunal's attention to the document submitted by me in Dehner Document Book III, Dehner Document No. 16, Dehner Exhibit No. 10. It may be found on page 45 of the German and also page 45 of the English.
In particular I wish to draw attention to the entry under the 4th of December 1943. There it says: "The Plenipotentiary of the Croatian State Government with the LXIXth Reserve Corps, Ustascha Colonel Servatzy, lodges a complaint with the Corps General Staff on the conditions prevailing during the construction of the Heinrichs Castle in the FruskaGora. Allegedly irreproachable Croatians from the environs were compulsorily recruited for this work, housed in penal huts and undeservingly treated. The Corps General Staff informs Colonel Servatzy that the Construction of Heinrichs Castle is carried out by the Reich Main Security Office of the SS."
May I remark in this connection that it should be Reich Security Main Office. What was done after this letter?
A The remark in handwriting by my Ia shows that the matter was taken up with the Army, and then it was passed on to the German Plenipotentiary General in Croatia, Glaise-Horstenau, in order to discontinue this business.
Q This becomes clear, if Your Honors please, from the next sentence in this entry, from which I have just real. It says: "The affair will be submitted to the Army in order to stop this through the German Plenipotentiary General in Croatia."
Did you, General, have the possibility to take any other measures?
A I did not; I could not do anything else.
Q Now, I come to a different chapter in my examination, namely, the treatment meted out to the Cossacks. What Cossack units were under your command?
A The First Cossack Division, under their Commanding Officer Brigadier General von Pannwitz.
Q Let me hand you a report by the Reserve Grenadier Regiment 45, of 23 October, and the Combat Report by the Reserve Grenadier Regiment 45 concerning excesses by the Cossacks. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit No. 340, in Volume XIV, on Pages 32, to 35 of the English and pages 16 of the German text.
Can you give us your comments on the contents of this report?
A. The report describes the first clash between the Reserve Grenadier Regiment 4 which was part of the 187th Division and the Cossacks who were committed for the first time. I should emphasize here that the author of the report, Lt. Colonel Rucksack, was always inclined to exaggerate. What his own troops achieved he would underline and what other troops had done he would not put into the letter. That becomes quite clear from every sentence. I draw attention here to the remark I made in my own handwriting which may be found on page 18 of the German and page 35 of the English text. It is roughly the last third of that page. It says there:
"These general terms are completely without interest to me. I insist that I be given definite particulars, witnesses, etc. and then I can take action."
That is addressed to the 187th Division.
Q. Did the Corps know about these excesses?
A. The Corps only heard about them afterwards.
Q. Did the Corps approve of these excesses?
A. It most certainly did not.
Q. What steps could you take after you received the report?
A. I could initiate exact investigations and insist that I be informed of the result. The Cossack Divisions were shown the reports mentioned before and it was expected that strong measures would be taken. The number of the report at hand, which is on page 35 of the English in the last but one paragraph, is the number 8674, dated 25 October 1943. This latter number may be found again in the compilation of the excesses committed by the Cossacks which is contained in the same document book on page 23 of the German and page 38 of the English. As I was not the judicial authority, the court files were passed on to the Army directly, which was the next judicial authority above the division. I was merely informed of the result.
Q. What did you do after those two reports?
A. In writing, as well as orally, I pointed out to the Divisional Commander that extremely severe action must be taken and legal proceedings be initiated.
Q. Let me hand you now the compilation of the excesses committed by the Cossacks dated 20 November 1943. This is Document NOKW-509, Exhibit 340, in Volume 14, on page 38 of the English and page 23 of the German. Did you sign the document?
A. No.
Q. What sort of document is it really?
A. This document does not show a heading. It is not signed. It is not initialed by me. It has been torn from its context. It is a compilation of the excesses committed by the Cossacks up to a certain day, namely 20 November 1943.
Q. The prosecution made the following comments on this document which may be found in the English record on page 1298 and on page 1308 of the German. This is what the prosecution said:
"What we find in this document concerning these incidents, between the entries 5 and 7, is that no action was taken. Likewise, under entry 9."
Let me show you the photostatic copy of the original document. Are the prosecution right in their assertion?
A. They are not.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
If the Tribunal please, I should be grateful if you would take a look at the original photostatic copy because this document contains indications which are left out from both the German and the English copies, whereas the original photostatic copy shows that the prosecution are wrong in asserting that no investigations were ordered in connection with certain incidents; whereas what General Dehner said was correct, namely that for the incident listed under 5-7 and 9 and other incidents, in all cases investigations were initiated. I should be grateful if the Tribunal would tell me if I may now submit this photostatic document to the Tribunal?
THE PRESIDENT: Do you have it in your possession here?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, you may submit it. The Tribunal is not in a position to read it.
DR. GAWLIK: Your Honors, the actual words are not important. Merely the marks there are important which I shall explain now. The Tribunal will find that under the paragraphs 5 to 7 there are two double lines. These lines mean that the entries were not to be repeated under No. 4. What was meant was that one wanted to save the trouble to repeat these entries under No. 4.
On the next page, the Tribunal will find that there is a bracket around all entries. This very important bracket means that the entries made in this column were reported and that the investigation demanded with regard to the 1st Cossack Division applied to all entries on that page. That is to say, all incidents reported on this page were investigated, but this bracket is not contained on page 1440 of the English document. It should be added now. By leaving out this bracket in the English document book, the impression arises as though investigations were requested for one incident.
THE INTERPRETER: I believe, your Honors, instead of saying "double lines" which I said before, I should have said "ditto marks" in those columns.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you get the comment made by the interpreter, Dr. Gawlik?
DR. GAWLIK: No.
(The interpreter repeated the comment in German.)
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q. Why is there nothing in the last column, General?
A. On page 23 on top, it becomes clear that the last date for the report was the 20th of November, as since the day when the Corps sent off the letter, where it demands that the 1st Cossack Division make these investigations, and as some days had elapsed since that day, as you can see from column 4 quite easily, no result of the investigation can have become available in a number of cases.
Q. Does that mean that nothing was done against the Cossack Division?
A. No, it does not. There hadn't been enough time yet to see the result in the case of certain incidents.
Q. What columns are important to clear up the question? What sort of measures were taken against the Cossacks?
A. The column - the fourth and fifth columns are important here.
Q. What measures were actually taken against the Cossack excesses?
A. The document shows that the Corps instituted proceedings by court martial.
Q. In this connection, I beg to draw the Tribunal's attention to Document Book Dehner No. III to a document to be found on page 40, the number of which is Dehner No. 16, offered by me as Exhibit No. 10. Under October 29, 1943, it says on page 40 of that document:
"Corps Headquarters are informed of several, partly serious cases of excesses by the Cossacks of the First Cossack Division, in particular the rape of 120 women in Bosnjaci. In this connection, report is made by the First Cossack Division that excesses are being punished with the harshest measures. (During the period of from 25 to 28 October, 8 Cossacks were shot for outrages.)" Can you tell us about the facts mentioned in the column headed "Facts of the case?"
A. The sources were in some cases entirely unreliable. In many cases, they were simply gossip and exaggerations, sometimes malicious slander. Unfortunately, in some cases, Croat officers behaved somewhat strangely too.
Q. This becomes clear from the further entries in Dehner Document Book No. III on page 40. In Document Dehner No. 16, it speaks of the fact that the Cossack Division did not know anything of the rape of 120 women.
"The Cossack Divisions are of the impression that a large-scale atrocity propaganda is being launched against the Cossack Division both by so-called loyal Croats as well as by the opponents." In this connection, I beg to draw the Court's attention to page 45 of Dehner Document Book No. III which is still part of Document No. 16, Exhibit No. 10. There we find the entry of 1 December 1943 which says:
"Corps Headquarters replies to the report of the 2nd Croatian C Corps Headquarters, dated 27 November 1943, by which eight cases of alleged excesses by Cossacks are submitted. First Cossack Division is ordered to examine scrupulously all submitted complaints, to punish the men found guilty severely and as far a s possible to compensate wronged persons. At the same time, however, Corps Headquarters points to the fact that in many cases the complaints are partly exaggerated and misrepresented as, for instance, in the case of the complaint on the occurrence in the village of Pivos where indeed bandits were concerned by the attacks of the Cossacks."
Did the measures taken against the Cossacks have the desired result?
A. Yes, they did. That you can see from an entry in the War Diary.
Q. What other measures were taken after the excesses committed by the Cossacks?
A. I took all necessary stops in order to achieve that the Cossack Division would be transferred away from Croatia. If I remember rightly, this application made by the Corps was subscribed to by the Army and the Army Group, but unfortunately nothing was changed before I left Croatia.
Q. Only a few final questions now. General, when did you become a prisoner of war?
A. On 3 May 1943 I became a prisoner of war of the Americans.
Q. In what camps were you and how were you treated in those camps?
A. First I was sent to the generals camp in Augsburg. On the day after our arrival, we had to hand over all our decorations. One or two days later, my watch was taken away from me by an American soldier. In both cases, we protested but without avail. I must say that in Augsburg our accommodation was all right.
A few weeks later, we were sent to the officers' camp in Ulm. There we were about 150 to 200 generals. We were accommodated in a dilapidated horse stable very close together. In that stable, we were pushed in, I may say. Each one of us was given one stand where the horses used to be. That is to say, each stand was meant for three generals. The floor was of stone. At the beginning we had no straw. Later, a little straw and later on more straw. We had no blankets. It was very drafty and chilly, and many people fell ill. I myself contracted rheumatism of the joints from which I am still suffering. We had no cutlery. We had to fetch an empty can from the refuse dump in order to have anything for our meals at all. We had to carry our own food in a large pail over a certain distance.
There, soon afterwards, we were ordered to remove all insignia of rank and position. We had to tear off the rod stripes on our trousers, all insignia from our caps, etc. In the winter, we were accommodated in an empty barracks which had been empty for a long time. There on some occasions, we had to work which was highly undignified. We had to sweep our rooms. We had to clean the floors. We had to clean the toilets. From time to time, there were raids on our rooms and this or that disappeared from private belongings. All this was reported.
General Reinhardt who is here in prison was our leader and he can give more information about this. After that, we were sent to Allendorf.
We were sent there on trucks and we were to write the history of the war for the American Army, i.e. we were to write down our experiences. We were not asked whether we wanted to do that voluntarily. Last year, on 28 December I was brought here all of a sudden. I wanted to take my luggage along but I was told to leave it behind because, after all, I would return in a few days' time.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, we will take our morning recess at this time.
( A recess was taken.)
(Following recess.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, General Dehner.
BY DR. GAWLIK:
Q.- Please continue General Dehner.
A.- When I was supposed to come here I was ill. At that time I reported for medical treatment in Allendorf and I asked the commandant to delay my trip for a few days, but I was not granted this request for the reason that in a few days I would be back where I came from.
In an open jeep I had to go to Frankfurt and it was very cold in those days. I was with another General and two escorts were with us. When we came to the outskirts of Frankfurt we had to get out of the jeep and we were asked to enter a bus. In this bus there were high American officers with their ladies. We were shackled in this bus with hand shackles. We protested against this immediately and said "We are German officers, we are Generals, we are not aware of having committed any offense. We have never given you the slightest cause for you expecting us to escape." They did not pay any attention and only said, "We are also officers." We were shackled just the same and in this state we had to leave the autobus and we had to walk through the rather crowded railroad station carrying our luggage with our hands, although our hands were tied. Then we were brought into a train compartment and crowds looked into the windows of the train curiously. Those who desired got brom our escorts our personal papers, which we carried and they were handed out openly by our escorts. Then we were brought to the prison here, I waited every day to be interrogated, I stayed here over New Years Eve and New Years Day and it lasted until the 7th of January that my first interrogation took place, I did not feel well at all, I was rather sick as a matter of fact and my comrade, who was also there, objected against the treatment meted out to us and objected, but this was of no available.