The Terror Order, Prosecution Exhibit No. 25, in Prosecution Document Book I, page 86, also was not valid in the Balkans. This I can prove with the order itself. The prosecution only submitted a copy of this containing only one of the six points.
And now I would like to submit to the Tribunal the entire order and I would like to read it. I give it the exhibit number 92. The order can be found in Document Book I, page 99a:
"Top Secret! Chief Matter. Through Officers only!
"The Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces.
"Fuehrer Headquarters, 23 July 1941 "14 copies.
2nd copy."
There are a few notes.
"Supplement to Directive 33 "1) Southeastern Front:
"The enemy still resisting west of the Dnjepr must be beaten to destruction and dispersed. As soon as the operational supply position permits, tank groups 1 and 2 must be concentrated east of the Dnjepr under the 4th tank army in order first to gain the Charkow industrial area and then to make a thrust beyond the Don" -
MR. FULKERSON: Where is the original of this document? It is not being offered as an exhibit.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honors, as far as I remember, the prosecution submitted as an exhibit the entire order in the document books. However, they only included Point VI of the order and only Point VI was translated so that the Tribunal could only take judicial notice of Point VI. Points I to V, to which I attach great importance, show quite clearly that this order could only have been valid for the Eastern front. For this reason I included the whole order in my document book and had it translated because otherwise the Tribunal would have had no knowledge of the entire order. I have certified that the copy which I have submitted as an exhibit is the complete, is a literal copy of Document C52. This is a document from the first trial.
THE PRESIDENT: The document is apparently in the files of the Secretary-General and may be checked there if there is any question in your mind as to its-- it has been referred to as Exhibit 25 and is so mentioned here in this exhibit 92.
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Does that complete you inquiry?
MR. FULKERSON: That completes my inquiry, yes, your Honor.
DR. LATERNSER: "As soon as the operational supply position permits"-
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please. Apparently, there is some mechanical difficulties. We will have to delay matters temporarily.
You may proceed, Dr. Laternser.
DR. LATERNSER: I start with the second sentence of figure "1." page 99a:
"As soon as the operational supply position permits, tank groups 1 and 2 must be concentrated east of the Dnjepr under the 4th tank army, in order first to gain the Charkow industrial area and then to make a thrust beyond the Don to Caucasia, always followed up by Infantry and Mountain Divisions. The great mass of the Infantry Divisions has first of all to occupy the Ukraine, Crimea and the Central Russian area as far as the Don; for the time being it must be left to the Roumanian Army to secure the area southwest of the Bug.
"2) Central Eastern Front:
"After having cleared up the situation around Smolensk and on the southern flank, the Army Croup with the infantry units of its two armies, which are sufficiently strong for this purpose, has to beat the enemy still resisting between Moskow and Smolensk, if possible pushing on the left wing, and has to take Moscow.
Tank group 3 must be temporarily put under the Army Group North to secure its right flank and to encircle the enemy round Leningrad. For the further task-advance into the area as far as the Volga- the fast units of tank group 3 will, as far as can be foreseen, be again available.
"3.) North Eastern Front:
With tank group 3 under its command the Army Croup is in a position to employ string infantry Forces for the attack in the Direction of Leningrad and avoid its fast units being used up by having slowly to gain ground in frontal operations in difficult terrain.
The enemy Forces still fighting in Estonia must be destroyed. For this purpose they must be prevented from embarking and from retreating across the Narwoa in the Direction of Leningrad.
The tank group 3 will have to be again attached to the Central Army Group after having accomplished its task.
"4.) In the further course of events the High Command of the Army must make due provision for the situation, that large portions of Army Group North including Tank Group 4 as well as parts of the Infantry Forces of Army Group South must be sent back to the zone of the Interior, as soon as the situation permits. In this event Tank Group 3 must be again brought up to full fighting strength by transfers of equipment and personnel from Tank Group 4, whereas Tank Groups 1 and 2 will have to shift somehow, by reducing the number of units, if necessary.
"5.) As far as the Navy and Luftwaffe are concerned, the instructions contained in directive 33 remain in force.
Beyond his the situation of the mountain Corps has to be relieved on the part of the Navy by determined use of the meanwhile increased Forces in the Polar Sea, on the part of the Luftwaffe by shifting some Groups of dive bombers to the Finnish Sector after the conclusion of the fighting round Smolensk. This is also intended to remove any possible temptation for England to take part in the fighting on the Polar Coast.
Your Honors, according to these five points which only deal with the Eastern Front and the various sectors of the whole front, after these five points there comes Point VI which is the one point submitted and translated by the prosecution:
"In view of the vastness of the areas in question, the troops available for the occupation of the conquered Eastern territories will only be sufficient if resistance is not punished by legal conviction of the offenders but only if the occupying power spreads the terror which is alone suitable to destroy the will to resist in the population.
The Commanding Generals concerned together with the troops at their disposal are to be held responsible for law and order in their district.
The Commanding Generals must find means to keep order in the districts under their control not by demanding larger occupation forces but by taking suitable draconic measures."
Signed: "Keitel."
And now comes the distribution list:
"Commander-in-Chief of the Army (Operations Section), 1st copy "Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (Direction of Sea Warfare), 2nd copy "Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe (Luftwaffe Operational Staff), 3rd copy "AOK Norway, 4th copy."
I might draw the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that the AOK Norway at that time had in Finland contact with the Russian forces -- that is, was also assigned in the East -- and then comes OKW, the rest of the copies.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me. The remarks that I am about to make are not directed to the Prosecution staff, or any of its present members. It is quite apparent to me, - and I speak only for myself, - that this document is a very important document in connection with this particular question. I cannot understand why in the preparation of the document books in Washington, or at such other place as they may have been prepared, why the entirety of this document was not included.
It does not reflect to the credit of those who prepared this particular document. That these data included in this document, does not meet with my personal approval.
As I said before, my statements are in no way directed to the present prosecution staff.
DR. LATERNSER: The fact that this order was not valid, I can further prove with other documents.
I now submit List Document 107, as Exhibit No. 93. It is contained in Document Book 1, page 100. It is an affidavit by Lt. Col. Gaulmueller. Now I am going to read this third and fourth paragraph:
"From 12 January, 1941, I was captain and quartermaster of Corps Headquarters of XVIII Mountain Army Corps, which was under General Boehme's Command and was subordinate to the Command of the 12th Army."
I will skip the rest of this paragraph, and read the last paragraph:
"The order of the OKW (Keitel) to the effect, that resistance in the occupied territories should 'not be punished by Legal Prosecution of the offenders but by spreading terror' the so-called 'terror order' never came to my knowledge during the war, either in the Balkans or elsewhere. If this order had been given by Fieldmarshal List to the XVIII Corps before 15 September 1941, this order would have had to be brought to my knowledge on account of my position in the service."
I would like to submit as the next document on this point, List Document No. 27 (f), Exhibit No. 94. It is contained in List Document Book 1, page 101. It is an affidavit by General Krakau, and I am going to read from the second paragraph onwards:
"I was at that time Colonel and Commanding Officer of the Mountain Infantry Regiment 85 in the 5th Division. This division was subordinate to the XVIII Mountain Corps, and therefore to List's Army."
I skip the next sentence in this paragraph and continue with the last paragraph:
"The order of the OKW (Keitel) of 23 July 1941 to the effect, 'that resistance in the occupied territories should not be punished by legal prosecution of the offenders but by the spreading of terror and by the use of draconic measures' was never made known to me or to the regiment."
My next document, List No. 13, becomes Exhibit No. 95. It is contained in Document Book 1, page 102. It is an affidavit by Dr. Gruen, and I am going to read the last two paragraphs:
"The so-called terror order at no time came to my knowledge, while I was stationed in the Balkans.
"Furthermore, I have never had any knowledge of occurrences in the Balkans, which were the result of this order."
As the next Exhibit, No. 96, I submit List Document No. 37, in Document Book 1, page 103. It is an affidavit by Dr. Schaefer, and I am going to read the last two paragraphs:
"At the time of the events in question I was General Staff veterinary officer and Army veterinary officer of the 12th Army. An order of the OKW (Keitel) dated 23 July 1941 concerning the spreading of terror add the use of draconic measures never came to my knowledge while I was in the Balkans.
Signed, "Dr. Schaefer".
The terror order, therefore, did not apply in the Balkans.
This concludes my presentation of evidence with regard to Count III of the Indictment.
In Court IV of the Indictment, Field Marshal List is charged with bringing part of the population into concentration camps, and also with the prosecution of Jews through the Wehrmacht. I am going to prove that the internment of persons by the occupation power is not contrary to International Law, and further that concentration camps of the Wehrmacht were not in existence in the Balkans.
In this connection I would like to submit Document, List No. 165, as Exhibit No. 97. It is contained in Document Book II, page 1, and it is an excerpt from Directive 38 of the Allied Control Council for Germany, dated the 12th of October, 1946. I would like to read a brief extract from this, - in Document Book II, page 1:
"Control Council Directive No. 38. Arrest and punishment of war criminals, National-Socialists and Militarist, and internment, control and surveillance of potentially dangerous Germans.
"The Control Council issues the following directive:
Chapter I.
"1 Purpose:
"It is the purpose of this directive to create a common policy for the Whole of Germany in regard to:"
I skip the next two sections and come to (c). Therefore the purpose of this directive is to create general regulations with regard to the internment of Germans who without being guilty of specific crimes are considered to be dangerous to Allied purposes as well as the control and surveillance--"
MR. FULKERSON: I object to this document. In the first place it purports to be a Control Council Directive, and if that is true the Court can take judicial notice of it, and it does not need to be in evidence.
In the second place, it is irrelevant for the reason that the Control Council is not on trial here, and it certainly is outside of the scope of the issues here to go into a question of examination of their policy. And, finally, I cannot see what connection it possibly has with any of the charges which have been made against this particular defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: It is being offered, as I understand it, for the purpose of showing what is International Law.
The objection will be overruled.
DR. LATERNSER: I read paragraph (c), that is, that the purpose of this directive is to create a common policy for the whole of Germany in regard to:
"The internment of Germans who without being guilty of specific crimes are considered to be dangerous to Allied purposes as well as the control and surveillance of Germans who constitute a potential danger."
The next exhibit with regard to this point which I would like to submit is List No. 17, Exhibit No. 98. It is contained in Document Book 3, page 4. It is an affidavit by Dr. Gruen, Army Judge, and I will just read the last paragraph, page 4. It is Document Book 2, page 4:
"I have not known until now that concentration-camps on the lines of German conditions were said to have existed in the Balkans. I have so far only heard about one or the other so-called transit-camps in Serbia, where unreliable subjects were housed for reasons of security of the occupying power, and where they could be easily be guarded. As far as I am informed, these camps were established by the Military Administration of Serbia and were administered and guarded by the police."
The next document is List 137, which becomes Exhibit No. 99. It is in Document Book 2, page 5, Affidavit by Dr. Hammer, and I am going to read from the 4th paragraph onward:
"Ad rem".
I am sorry, I must read the third paragraph too:
"From 20 April 1941 until 9 April 1942 I was supervising Medical Officer and Oberstarzt with the Commanding General in Serbia; subsequently with the Commanding General and Commander-in-Chief in Serbia; until 1 September 1944 with the Military Commander Southeast; and until the collapse of the front I was the Army Physician of the 2nd Panzer Army.
"Ad rem: The conception concentration-camp as I have got to know it from English, American and German periodicals was unknown to me from the Balkan.
"I only knew that during summer 1941 for a short time a collective camp for Serbian civilians was established in a barracks situated south of the town of Sabac, which however--" I am sorry, how is the word, "Sammellager" translated?
TRANSLATOR: It is translated as "collective camp".
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you.
"I only know that during the summer of 1941 for a short time a collective camp for Serbian civilians was established in a barracks situated south of the town of Sabac, which, however, was seen dissolved again. As far as I know this camp was subordinated to the Chief of the Civilian Administration, Turner. If I remember correctly, a second camp was established at the beginning or during the middle of 1943. Administration and supervision rested exclusively with the SD and its organs. The military offices had nothing whatever to do with it. My hygiene expert, Stabsarzt Dr. Gerst, at present resident of Thale (Harz), Gesundheitshaus, succeeded several times in entering the camp of Semlin in order to get an idea about the situation as regards diseases and epidemics.
His welfare and care measures however were only partly carried out, since the SD refused to let him enter the camp again."
Now another document on the subject is List Document No. 160 (a), and this becomes Exhibit No. 100. It is contained in Document Book 3, page 52. It is an affidavit by Major Kliemann, and I would like to read the last paragraph at the bottom of page 52:
"To count 4 of the Indictment against General Field Marshal List 'Installation of Concentration Camps and Deportation of the civilian population as slave labor':
"I have no knowledge of any order issued by General Field Marshal List which concerns itself with the setting up of a concentration camp.
"If such camps existed in the South East they can have only been set up by the security police and the SD, or in Croatia by the Ustasha. The army had nothing to do with such matters.
"I also do not know of any such orders from the South Eastern territory which concern themselves with the deportation of civilians. The drafting of labor, for instance in Greece, was the business of the offices of the labor allocation department and was carried out independently from the Army."
(Dr. Laternser) With the establishment of the Sabac Camp, Field Marshal List, as I will show from Prosecution documents, had nothing to do, so far as this camp was concerned.
I am going to read from List Document No. 207, this has already been submitted as Exhibit No. 82, and I would like to read another passage from this document. It is contained in Document Book 5, page 58. I read from the middle of the page:
"IV. Prisoners.
1.) Detained persons:
In Sabac, at present approximately 20,000. These will be screened by a court martial attached to the Acting Commanding General in Serbia, in conjunction with police and Security Service of the Military Government, for possible membership in bandit groups or the Communist Party. Some of them have been detailed to working detachments. They will be released pursuant to the orders issued by the Military Commander Southeast, after they have been screened.
Signed "Signature illegible, General Staff Captain."
The order quoted here is Prosecution's Exhibit No. 70, which is contained in Document Book 2, of the Prosecution, page 141. From this document, Exhibit 82, I would like to read another passage on page 57. This concerns the question of the deportation of the people from the Save-Drina river bond: "To the Plenipotentiary Commanding General in Serbia:
Headquarters." It is dated 2 October 1941, and I skip the bit in the middle and read from Figure 1:
"Following instructions from higher quarters the evacuation of the noncombatant population of the Save-Drina bend to the south was not affected."
With regard to the alleged Camp of Save-Drina, which was ordered by General Boehma, in his order dated the 6th of October, Prosecution Exhibit No, 71, Document Book 2 of the Prosecution, page 143, in this connection too, I would like to submit a document. It is List Document No. 206, which become Exhibit No. 101.
This document is contained in Document Book 5, page 54. This is an excerpt from the War Diary of Headquarters XVIIIth Corps and I read from page 55, a brief passage:
"28 October 1941.
Discussion with commanding officer of transient prisoner camp 183: Camp Zasavica unusable because of miring of territory following flooding. Commanding General orders that in lieu of the Zasavica concentration camp the exhibition territory Semlin is to be completed. Commanding officer of transient prisoner camp 183 instructed to discontinue the completion of Zasavica concentration camp, to return prisoners to collecting camp Sabac."
The Prosecution further asserted that the systematic prosecution of the Jews was carried out by the Wehrmacht. The attitude of Field Marshal List to the Jewish question, and at all times, the facts refute this assertion. As proof of General Field Marshal List's attitude toward the Jewish question I now submit document, List No. 7. which becomes Exhibit No. 102. This document you will find in Document Book 2, page 52. This is an affidavit by Colonel Dyes:
"Effective from 8 4- 38 I was transferred from the office of Regiment Adj. in infantry regiment 16 Oldenburg, to the office of Major on the staff of the Army Group Command V in Vienna, the Commander in Chief of which was the then Major General List. I was subordinate to the Chief of the general staff, the then General Ruoff, and had direct access to him and to the Supreme Commander."
MR. FULKERSON: I object to this document, if Your Honors please, first because it is not relevant, there is nothing said in here that has to do with what happened during the period covered by the Indictment. If we went into all of the matters discussed here it would take us even further afield than we have gone already, by several years.
The documents contain -- the affidavit, so-called, contains, no sort of preamble saying that it is given under oath or in lieu of oath.
I believe that is enough for the moment.
DR. LATERNSER: With regard to the proper swearing of this document, the signature is certified by our notary and this is in accordance with the provisions; with regard to the contents, I am going to prove that a man who at all times had the attitude of a decent, humane being toward the Jewish question, cannot be assumed to have prosecuted the Jews without the Prosecution bringing further details with regard to it.
THE PRESIDENT: You may complete your sentence.
DR. LATERNSER: The attitude during the whole period is important. I maintain that at all times Field Marshal List had a decent attitude towards the Jewish question so that he could never have done what the Prosecution has charged against him.
THE PRESIDENT: From a hurried study of this particular affidavit it is apparent that most of it is applicable to a time prior to the time in controversy.
It seems to me that the objection should be sustained.
DR. LATERNSER: The next document I would like to submit is Document List No. 141. This become Exhibit No. 103. I am sorry, 102. This is to be found in Document book 2, page 56. It is an affidavit by Major von Haehling, and I would like to read it.
MR. FULKERSON: Before he reads it I would like to make the same objection to this affidavit that I just interposed to the last one. That is, that the time covered here is outside of the scope of the indictment.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honors, in this connection I would like to say that this affidavit concerns official presentations which Field Marshal List made in 1938, against these excesses which were undertaken at the time against Jewish businesses. This was at a time when although ever decent German did not agree with these excesses, it was terribly difficult to make official representations against them.
And for the rest, the Prosecution itself in examination, again and again questioned about the general attitude of the defendants to the Jewish question, and I am just presenting supplementary evidence to this effect.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained.
DR. LATERNSER: The next document I would like to submit is List No. 7 and this receives Exhibit No. ;02. It is contained in List Document Book 2, page 54. It is an affidavit by Otto Voehler containing the same point, and which I cannot submit.
No. 102 is now given to List Document No. 49. This is contained in List document book 2, page 58, and it is an affidavit by General Woehler It is page 58.
THE PRESIDENT: Prior to our morning recess the Tribunal wishes to announce that it has filed this morning, an order of severance of the defendant von Weichs. This statement is made into the record for the information of all concerned.
You may have some opportunity during this recess period to check on some other affidavits that may have the same questions, that we have just been considering, and if you will do that it may save us some later time.
The Tribunal will be in recess for fifteen minutes.
(Tribunal in recess until 1115 hours.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please take their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
DR. LATERNSER: The next document will be Exhibit 102.
MR. FULKERSON: I should like to make the same objection as I did with regard to the other two. This one also covers the time outside the period included in the indictment.
DR. LATERNSER: It concerns events during the whole of the Polish campaign in which Fieldmarshal List had to take stringent measures against excesses. The Prosecution has during the interrogation of the defendant questioned him about his attitude towards the Jewish question. When it was the prosecution's turn, they thought this point was important. Now that it is the defense's turn, they don't think this point of the indictment is not important any longer. I cannot deal with only the events in the Balkans but I have to submit evidence for the general attitude displayed by Fieldmarshal List on this subject.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the page number and the document number?
DR. LATERNSER: Document Book II, page 58.
THE PRESIDENT: This appears to concern the Polish campaign, as I observe it.
DR. LATERNSER: May it please the Tribunal, I wanted to show the general attitude displayed by Fieldmarshal List. The prosecution maintainedthey asserted a plan concerning the systematic persecution of the Jews. If such a plan really existed, then such a plan had existed previously. That is why I take the point of view of the prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be sustained.
DR. LATERNSER: The next document submitted will be Document List 138 to be Exhibit 102. It is contained in Document Book II, page 45. It is an affidavit by Hermann Haack. I am reading from the second paragraph:
"From the entry into Greece of the German troops till end of September 1942 I was army intendant at 12th Army H.Q.
In the summer of 1941 the Jewish question, so far as I know, was of no importance to the 12th Army High Command and the Commander-in-Chief South East. Whether it was of any importance in Serbia I do not know.
In my sphere of activity which covered in particular the procuring of food supplies for the army, the 12th Army made contracts with Jewish firms regarding the delivery of foodstuffs. I cannot remember particulars, such as the names of the suppliers.
Such a method of placing orders was quite in keeping with the intentions of Field Marshal-General List who at all times only desired that the army should be well and regularly fed, and bothered little whether the supply contracts were made with Jewish firms.
In keeping with this principle, officers of the 12th Army in Greece, myself among them, were often billeted with Jewish families. Field Marshal General List took no exception to that, either."
The next document submitted is List 27-B. It will be Exhibit 103. It is on page 47 of the same document Book No. II. It is an affidavit by Theodor Jestrabek, of which I beg to read the second paragraph, the first two sentences.
"In 1941 I was mess officer on the staff of the then high command of 12th army. There was no such thing as a Jewish problem in Greece in the summer of 1941. On the contrary, both the army and the staff availed themselves mainly of the services of Jewish suppliers who were regarded as very reliable."
I omit the next sentence and proceed:
"As a matter of fact, in agreement with the Chief of Staff I have been dealing with Jewish suppliers for a very long time and made good experiences."
The next Document List 119--it will be Exhibit 104 and is on page 48 of Document Book II. It is an affidavit by Dr. Drexler. I shall read from the second paragraph:
"Between 6 April 1941 and 5 February 1942 I was major (medical corps) and medical officer on special assignment on the staff of 12th Army H.Q.
The Jewish question was of no importance to Field Marshal List. No orders, either in writing or orally, were ever issued aiming at the oppression, or to the prejudice, of the Jews. Not even shopping in Jewish shops was forbidden. Jewish venders who offered and sold their goods to German soldiers right in front of the staff building of the 12th Army H.Q. were not hindered."
The next document List 145 to be Exhibit 105 is on page 49 of Document Book II, an affidavit of General Serini. I shall read from the second paragraph:
"Between 7 November 1939 and 5 May 1942, I was at first lieutenant colonel and, subsequently, from 1 October 1940, colonel and first adjutant of the 12th Army.
During this period I never heard anything about the Jewish question having been of any importance in the area of the 12th Army."
The next exhibit will be List Document 20. It will be Exhibit 106. It is on page 50 of the same Document Book II. It is an affidavit by Dr. Gruen, who was Judge Advocate of the 12th Army, as will be shown by the second paragraph. I shall read the third paragraph:
"The Jewish question was of no importance in Serbia and Greece in the summer of 1941. The Wehrmacht had more important jobs on hand than the Jewish question in which it took little interest, although there were many Jews in Greece, in particular in the seaports. I have not come across a single case where Jews have been molested by the Wehrmacht during this period."
The next document will be List 39, No. 107, Exhibit 107, on page 51. It is an affidavit by Dr. Schaefer. I shall read from the second paragraph:
"At the time of the events in question I was General Staff Veterinary Surgeon and Army Veterinary Surgeon of the 12th Army. In the summer of 1941 the Jewish problem in Serbia and Greece did not concern the Army H.Q. 12, respectively, the command South East. I have no knowledge of any orders forbidding association with Jews. For instance, I lived for some time with a Jewish family in Saloniki on the best possible terms."
That Field Marshal List always displayed this attitude, that is, the attitude of a decent person regarding the Jews is proven by List Document 8, which I offer as Exhibit 108. It is on page - it is in Document Book II, on page 61. It is an affidavit by Dr. Fuernrohr:
"In cognizance of the relevant articles of the penal law I herewith make the following affidavit.
"For 37 years I have been married to a baptised Jewess, and for this reason we have been subjected to an increasing degree to the commonly known persecutions in the Third Reich. The effect was that more and more of our acquaintances, friends and also relatives did not come to our house any more and did not ask us any more to visit them.
We were impressed all the more in these days by the attitude shown towards us by Field Marshal List and his family.
"Around 1941 List had a country house built in Partenkirchen quite near to our little weekend house (which during the war we dared visit only occasionally because we were forbidden) moving in, as far as I remember, in 1942. List had heard of our difficult situation from a mutual Munich acquaintance. After they had become our neighbors, Mr. and Mrs. List (who were unknown to me up till then) sent us an invitation through the just mentioned Munich acquaintance to come around and visit them. In view of the attitude we had experienced from so many others we were exceedingly surprised at the invitation of this man in such an exposed position, although we had heard before that the List family were highly decent people and not a bit Nazi-colored. At the next opportunity we paid the requested visit and we were received in the most amiable manner by the whole family (Mr. and Mrs. List, their two daughters and two grandchildren), Mr. List's Adjutant also being present. Shortly afterwards the Lists returned our call in the most amiable manner. In the course of time we met occasionally in the street and I was several times addressed by Field Marshal General List who inquired warmly how things had fared with us.
"I am not in any way related to Mr. or Mrs. List. I belong to those persons not affected by the denazification law. I am ready at any time to swear to the truth of the above declaration." Signed "Dr. Fuernrohr, Attorney-at-law".
Now a last statement on this point; that will be Exhibit 109. It is Document 41. It is on page 63 of Document Book II. It is a declaration of Director Carl Schmid: "Herr Wilhelm List is one of the few of my acquaintances who have not changed their attitude -"
MR. FULKERSON (Interrupting): Object to this affidavit on the ground that it is not made under oath. He says here in the last sentence, "I am willing to make this declaration under oath".
DR. LATERNSER: I am afraid the translation is incorrect. The translation must be incorrect, because the German original reads that "I certify this as a sworn statement". This is a sworn statement.
THE PRESIDENT: It might be referred to the translators for translation.
INTERPRETER WEBER: It says, "I have pleasure in stating that on oath". That would be the correct translation.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you waive any further objection?
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. LATERNSER: "Director Carl Schid, Declaration. Herr Wilhelm List is one of the few of my acquaintances who have not changed their attitude towards me and my family right to the end. I am emphasizing this point particularly as I am married to a Jewish woman and because most of my acquaintances did not, or did not want to, know me any more after the Party came into power.
"I have known Herr List since 1898 and I know too his honorable and straightforward character which he has proved by his attitude towards me and my wife even during the worst years from 1933 right up to the end. I have pleasure in stating this on oath." Signed Karl Schmid.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, just a minute. Purely a technical remark, but I believe you referred to the exhibit as Document 141, and the document that I have before me seems to be 41. Which is correct?
DR. LATERNSER: 41 is correct, and the exhibit number is 109. I have now brought to conclusion my presentation of evidence regarding Count IV of the Indictment. I shall now proceed with the last part of my evidence. The documents which I now wish to read are designed to give you a very comprehensive picture of the character of Field Marshal List. In this connection it is the theory of the defense that a character having the qualities of Field Marshal List only orders measures of military necessity. That is the theory of the defense. I beg to submit as the first document List No. 1, to be Exhibit 110. It is an affidavit of -