There has been no tie-up shown between this document and the preceding documents, and unless there is something shown, it is completely irrelevant and immaterial.
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: The objection will be sustained.
DR. LATERNSER: In conclusion of this subject I would like to submit an important English opinion, which also regards the shooting of hostages as admissible. I submit to the Tribunal-
PRESIDING JUDGE BURKE: I think, Dr. Laternser, that we will be unable to finish it tonight, so we will adjourn at this time until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(At 1630 hours, 6 January 1948, a recess was taken until 0930 hours, 7 January 1948 Official Transcript of Military Tribunal V, Case VII, in the matter of the United States of America against Wilhelm List, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 7 January 1948, 0945, Justice Burke, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the court room will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal V.
Military Tribunal V is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you will ascertain as to whether or not all defendants are present in the court room.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all defendants are present in the court room with the exception of the defendant von Weichs who is in the hospital.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
DR. LATERNSER (Defense Counsel for defendant List): Your Honor, yesterday we stopped with the question of whether hostages could be killed as reprisals and I would mow like to let British opinion speak on this question. As proof, I submit List Document 330 as Exhibit #77. It is to be found in Document Book 6, page 12. It is an opinion which was made on the 4th of December, 1944, and I would like to read the last paragraph:
"In threatening to take and if necessary shoot hostages General Leclerc, in an effort to deal with a dangerous situation, was acting in full accordance with the rules of war."
MR. FULKERSON: If Your Honor please, I would like to object to this newspaper clipping on the same ground as the prosecution has made former objections to newspaper clippings.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honor, I think that this objection is rather too late because I have already finished reading and, for the rest, this is an article which comes from that period, an article which appeared in the Times, one of the most important newspapers in the world. I am already finished with the document.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection will be overruled as not being made timely then, I was having difficulty with my earphones and getting it over. Would you kindly repeat the reference to the exhibit?
DR. LATERNSER: It's Document List #330 and it receives Exhibit #77. It is in Document Book 6, page 12. I only read a part of the third paragraph in which the Times talks about shooting of hostages as being in accordance with international law.
Your Honor, unfortunately I am not able to submit the declarations which have already been made by American commanders on this subject because the French statements are still missing and I want to submit this statement in its entirety. They belong together. On this occasion when I present this opinion I will also present a very important opinion from authentic British sources. I will submit this evidence to the Tribunal as soon as possible and I am expecting the French statement to arrive any day.
This brings me to the end temporarily of my presentation of evidence with regard to Count I of the Indictment and now I turn to the presentation of evidence regarding Count II of the Indictment according to which Field Marshal List is charged with plundering and spoliation and destruction of property - spoliation and plundering through the special detachment of Rosenberg which is allegedly supposed to have been subordinate to the army. The fact that this Rosenberg Detachment was not subordinate to the army has been proved many times by testimony of witnesses. I will now submit further evidence.
Firstly, with List Document #330 and this becomes Exhibit #78. This document is to be found in Document Book 1, page 96. This is an affidavit by Colonel Werner Pfafferett and I want to read from the third paragraph onwards, picking out a few passages:
"Field Marshal List in no way supported the work of the Rosenberg Bureau and of the SD. Any impression to the contrary can only be the result of misunderstood or misleading reports of the representative of the Rosenberg Bureau, a certain Lt. Ritter von Ingram.
"Shortly before the start of the Balkans campaign, numerous document screening detachments of various agencies arrived at the Army District Command LK 12. One such detachment belonging to the Rosenberg Bureau was ordered to secure documents for the investigation of the Jewish question and of Freemasonry. All these detachments reported to the AOK Ic, received their certificates and gasoline according to orders, but otherwise they were absolutely independent. Since my stay in Bulgaria I have never seen the Rosenberg Detachment again; a corresponding SD detachment I have never seen at all. The Chief of the Rosenberg detachment, who had received the Knight's Cross when he was a lieutenant in the French campaign, was received by Field Marshal List for a short period. On this occasion, The Field Marshal in the most outspoken manner objected to any arbitrary actions and to any sort of illegality.
"This is the only case known to me, where Field Marshal List had any contact with the Rosenberg Bureau during the Balkans campaign. Field Marshal List never received a representative of the SD. Belgrade belonged to the Area of AOK 12. It is therefore unlikely that the Field Marshal made a promise in this direction. The Jewish question was altogether irrelevant for AOK 12 on the Balkans in 1941."
And, on the same subject, I submit List Document 162 as Exhibit #79. This is contained in Document Book 1, page 98. This is an affidavit by captain and ADC Switlik and I would only like to read the last paragraph:
"Even before the invasion of Greece a Rosenberg detachment arrived at our headquarters, whose task it was to secure objects of art and objects of research interest. This detachment received no cooperation at all from us. On the contrary, it met with difficulties in various quar ters, because people knew, that List did not want to receive this deputation."
The next document I would like to submit is List Document #18 and this becomes Exhibit #80. This is contained in Document Book 1, page 99. I am going to read from the second paragraph onwards. This is an affidavit by Alfred Bruen. I will just read the last paragraph:
"I have never had any knowledge that Field Marshal List promoted in any way operations such as the investigation of Freemasons' lodges, Jewish libraries and other objects of research at Belgrade, Salonika or elsewhere in the Balkans, or that he ever made promises to this effect. Such conduct would have been inconsistent with the general attitude and character of the Field Marshal."
As Exhibit #81 I am going to submit Document List 161A which is contained in Document Book 3, page 54. List Document 161-A. This is an affidavit by Hans Kliemann who was major in the staff of the Wehrmacht Commander South-East. From this affidavit I would like to read from page 55 at the top:
"To Count II of the Indictment against General Field Marshal Listlooting and/or robbery of private or public property in violation of international law.
"In this connection I remember that some cases were reported at the staff of the AOK of offenses of this kind committed by soldiers belonging to its units. But I also know that in such cases detailed investigation and severest punishment of the guilty members of the army was ordered by the commander in chief, and as far as possible, reparations made to the affected persons.
"No looting has ever been carried out with the knowledge of or approval by General Field Marshal List."
This paragraph refers to the general plundering which takes place by soldiers when a land is occupied. I continue reading:
"About the appointment of an agent of Rosenberg on the Balkans I remember quite definitely that Field Marshal List refused to accept him on his first visit in January 1941 in Roumania. Only following another request, of Rosenberg's office supported by the OKW, General Field Marshal List complied with the demand of Rosenberg's office, at the same time giving strict orders that this Einsatzstab Rosenberg was not to be given any hope by any of the executive forces of the army (Field police, field constabulary) and that it was forbidden to requisition art treasures and other research material on its own accord. I do not know anything about a possible close understanding between Rosenberg's agent and the Einsatzkommando of the SD; but according to my memory, General Field Marshal List has certainly not arranged for it or helped it in any way.
"On the contrary, I remember a report of the AOK to the OKW containing details of the experiences which had been made with the special commandos of Rosenberg's office of the foreign office and the SD, detailed to the army during the action in the South East, and sharply criticized the activities of these non-military institutions, putting forward a request for their withdrawal which was also complied with.
"I further remember on this point that the Einsatzstab Rosenberg was refused a further issue of gasoline and rations on order of the commander in chief, so as to force these people to stop their activities which were not welcomed by the army."
I would like to ask here where the word at the top in the second line, "Zugeteilt", has been translated.
THE INTERPRETER: Yes, the word "zugeteilt" has been translated in English as "detailed to the army".
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you.
Further proof for alleged robbery and plunder has not been presented by the prosecution. With regard to the alleged weakening of the economic potential in the country. I have already submitted proof and I would like to draw the attention of the Tribunal to exhibits in the case of List, numbers 24, 25, 26 and 27.
And now I would like to submit on this point -- that is, the asserted weakening of the economic potential -- a further document and this is List Document No. 207, and this becomes Exhibit No. 82, List No. 207, Exhibit No. 82. This is contained in Document Book V, page 56. This is an excerpt from the supplement to the War Diary of corps headquarters of the 18th Army and I would like to read from page 58 at the top just one passage. I must take the heading of this document from the top of page 57: "Headquarters," dated 15 October 1941, "Quartermaster to the Plempotentary Commanding General in Serbia"; that is at the bottom of page 57.
And now I turn to page 58, "III Economy":
"1. War Economy", and then a few things omitted and then comes:
"b. War Economy as applied to additional subjects:
"Bor: Machinery in the process of arriving, beginning of mining, probably at the end of October."
I will not present any supplementary evidence with regard to destruction because the prosecution has not offered proof a single case for an arbitrary destruction and the arbitrariness is not proved and also the defendant did not have the military necessity to carry out these destructions.
And now I turn to Count III of the indictment in which Field Marshal List is charged with having passed on illegal orders, in particular commissar order, terror order, not however the commando order, which was only issued at the end of 1942.
With regard to the commissar order which is Prosecution Exhibit No. 13, I would like to prove that it was not valid at all in the Balkans and to this purpose I submit, first of all, List Document No. 12 as Exhibit No. 83. This is contained in Document Book I, page 104. It is an affidavit by Army Judge Gruen. I only want to read the last paragraph.
"The so-called 'Commissar order' has never come to my knowledge, while I was in the Balkans. Furthermore, I have never had any knowledge of the Commissar order being carried out in the Balkans."
The next document I would like to submit is List Document No. 27 and this becomes Exhibit No. 84. It is on page 105 of Document Book I and it is an affidavit by Major Hepp. I want to read two paragraphs:
"From April 1941 until December 1941 I was 4th General Staff Officer of the Army Command 12 with the rank of Captain and later Major."
I omit the next sentence and go to the last paragraph.
"While I served with the Command of the 12th Army the 'Commissar order' was never brought to my knowledge either verbally or in writing. If this order had been transmitted by AON 12, I should have had to be notified of it in some way or other. Nor can I remember any discussions about this order among my comrades. There would, however, have certainly been such discussions, if such an order had arrived at the AOK.
The next document is List No. 36 which is Exhibit No. 85. You will find this document also in Book, Document Book I, 106. This is an affidavit by Dr. Schaeffer and I want to read two paragraphs from it.
"At the time of the events in question I was GeneralStaff veterinary officer and army veterinary officer of the 12th army. I heard nothing of the so-called Commissar order while I was stationed in the Balkans. I learned only later that there was such an order when I served on the Eastern Front, that is, after the Fall of 1942."
My next document is List 130. This becomes Exhibit No. 86. This document is to be found on page 107 and it is an affidavit by Col. Hans Gerog Faulmueller. I want to read one sentence from paragraph 3:
"From 12 January 1941 I was captain and quartermaster of XVIII Mountain Corps which was under General Boehme's Command and was subordinate to the Command of the 12th Army."
I omit the rest of this paragraph and read from the next paragraph.
"The 'Commissar order' did not come to my knowledge while I was serving on the Balkans. In my capacity as quartermaster of the XVIII Mountain Army Corps I should have had to be notified of this order if it had been issued to my Corps. Moreover I have no knowledge that Commissars were ever taken prisoner or shot dead on the Balkans."
The next document I would like to submit is List 7a which is Exhibit No. 87. This is an affidavit by General Foltmann and I just want to read the last two paragraphs. It is on page 108 in Document Book I.
"At the time in question I was Major General and Divisional Commander of the 16th Infantry Division stationed in Northern Greece. Concerning the matter in question I state:
"As far as I can remember, the so-called 'Commissar order' did not come to my knowledge at that time. Moreover, it would have been inopportune because conditions in Greece were altogether different from those in the East. I have never known of anything to suggest that this order was carried out in the Balkans."
Now comes Document List No. 27e, Exhibit No. 88. It is contained in Document Book I, page 109. and it is an affidavit by Major General Krakau. I am going to read the last two paragraphs:
"I was at that time Colonel and Commanding Officer of the Mountain Infantry Regiment 85 in the 5th Mountain Division. This division belonged to the XVIII Mountain Corps and therefore to List's Army."
I omit the next sentence and just read the last sentence.
"The so-called commissar order, according to which all political commissars who were taken prisoner had to be shot dead was made known neither to me nor to the regiment."
And the next document on the subject is List No. 23b, Exhibit No. 89. It is in Document Book 1, page 110. It is an affidavit by Captain Hausbacher. I read the last two paragraphs:
"From 6 April 1941 until 24 May 1941 I was stationed in Northern Greece; from 24 May until 1 December 1941 on the island of Crete and then later for a short time in Greece (Athens district). The so-called Commissar order was never received by my unit. There being no political commissars in the sense of the commissar order in the Balkans, there was no need to promulgate such an order in the Southeast."
The next document is List No. 117, Exhibit 190. It is also contained in Document Book I, page 111. It is an affidavit by Dr. Drexler and I read from the second paragraph onward:
"In the time from 6 April 1941 until 5 February 1942 I served on the Staff of the AOK 12 as Major Medical Corps and medical officer on special assignment. I know of no order of Field marshal List for the shooting of political commissars taken prisoner. If this order was intended to be distributed to the subordinate units, it would have had to pass through my hands because it would have been one of my duties to distribute such an order to the medical units under AON 12."
The last document on this point which I would like to submit is List No. 168, Exhibit 91. This document is contained in Document Book I, page 112. It is an affidavit by General Pensel and I read only the last paragraph:
"The so-called Commissar order" is no known to me. In June 1941 I was Chief of the General Staff of the XVIII Mountain Army Corps in Greece. In this position I should have had to be notified of this order if the order had been received by the XVIII Mountain Army Corps."
The Terror Order, Prosecution Exhibit No. 25, in Prosecution Document Book I, page 86, also was not valid in the Balkans. This I can prove with the order itself. The prosecution only submitted a copy of this containing only one of the six points.
And now I would like to submit to the Tribunal the entire order and I would like to read it. I give it the exhibit number 92. The order can be found in Document Book I, page 99a:
"Top Secret! Chief Matter. Through Officers only!
"The Chief of the High Command of the Armed Forces.
"Fuehrer Headquarters, 23 July 1941 "14 copies.
2nd copy."
There are a few notes.
"Supplement to Directive 33 "1) Southeastern Front:
"The enemy still resisting west of the Dnjepr must be beaten to destruction and dispersed. As soon as the operational supply position permits, tank groups 1 and 2 must be concentrated east of the Dnjepr under the 4th tank army in order first to gain the Charkow industrial area and then to make a thrust beyond the Don" -
MR. FULKERSON: Where is the original of this document? It is not being offered as an exhibit.
DR. LATERNSER: Your Honors, as far as I remember, the prosecution submitted as an exhibit the entire order in the document books. However, they only included Point VI of the order and only Point VI was translated so that the Tribunal could only take judicial notice of Point VI. Points I to V, to which I attach great importance, show quite clearly that this order could only have been valid for the Eastern front. For this reason I included the whole order in my document book and had it translated because otherwise the Tribunal would have had no knowledge of the entire order. I have certified that the copy which I have submitted as an exhibit is the complete, is a literal copy of Document C52. This is a document from the first trial.
THE PRESIDENT: The document is apparently in the files of the Secretary-General and may be checked there if there is any question in your mind as to its-- it has been referred to as Exhibit 25 and is so mentioned here in this exhibit 92.
MR. FULKERSON: Yes, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Does that complete you inquiry?
MR. FULKERSON: That completes my inquiry, yes, your Honor.
DR. LATERNSER: "As soon as the operational supply position permits"-
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, please. Apparently, there is some mechanical difficulties. We will have to delay matters temporarily.
You may proceed, Dr. Laternser.
DR. LATERNSER: I start with the second sentence of figure "1." page 99a:
"As soon as the operational supply position permits, tank groups 1 and 2 must be concentrated east of the Dnjepr under the 4th tank army, in order first to gain the Charkow industrial area and then to make a thrust beyond the Don to Caucasia, always followed up by Infantry and Mountain Divisions. The great mass of the Infantry Divisions has first of all to occupy the Ukraine, Crimea and the Central Russian area as far as the Don; for the time being it must be left to the Roumanian Army to secure the area southwest of the Bug.
"2) Central Eastern Front:
"After having cleared up the situation around Smolensk and on the southern flank, the Army Croup with the infantry units of its two armies, which are sufficiently strong for this purpose, has to beat the enemy still resisting between Moskow and Smolensk, if possible pushing on the left wing, and has to take Moscow.
Tank group 3 must be temporarily put under the Army Group North to secure its right flank and to encircle the enemy round Leningrad. For the further task-advance into the area as far as the Volga- the fast units of tank group 3 will, as far as can be foreseen, be again available.
"3.) North Eastern Front:
With tank group 3 under its command the Army Croup is in a position to employ string infantry Forces for the attack in the Direction of Leningrad and avoid its fast units being used up by having slowly to gain ground in frontal operations in difficult terrain.
The enemy Forces still fighting in Estonia must be destroyed. For this purpose they must be prevented from embarking and from retreating across the Narwoa in the Direction of Leningrad.
The tank group 3 will have to be again attached to the Central Army Group after having accomplished its task.
"4.) In the further course of events the High Command of the Army must make due provision for the situation, that large portions of Army Group North including Tank Group 4 as well as parts of the Infantry Forces of Army Group South must be sent back to the zone of the Interior, as soon as the situation permits. In this event Tank Group 3 must be again brought up to full fighting strength by transfers of equipment and personnel from Tank Group 4, whereas Tank Groups 1 and 2 will have to shift somehow, by reducing the number of units, if necessary.
"5.) As far as the Navy and Luftwaffe are concerned, the instructions contained in directive 33 remain in force.
Beyond his the situation of the mountain Corps has to be relieved on the part of the Navy by determined use of the meanwhile increased Forces in the Polar Sea, on the part of the Luftwaffe by shifting some Groups of dive bombers to the Finnish Sector after the conclusion of the fighting round Smolensk. This is also intended to remove any possible temptation for England to take part in the fighting on the Polar Coast.
Your Honors, according to these five points which only deal with the Eastern Front and the various sectors of the whole front, after these five points there comes Point VI which is the one point submitted and translated by the prosecution:
"In view of the vastness of the areas in question, the troops available for the occupation of the conquered Eastern territories will only be sufficient if resistance is not punished by legal conviction of the offenders but only if the occupying power spreads the terror which is alone suitable to destroy the will to resist in the population.
The Commanding Generals concerned together with the troops at their disposal are to be held responsible for law and order in their district.
The Commanding Generals must find means to keep order in the districts under their control not by demanding larger occupation forces but by taking suitable draconic measures."
Signed: "Keitel."
And now comes the distribution list:
"Commander-in-Chief of the Army (Operations Section), 1st copy "Commander-in-Chief of the Navy (Direction of Sea Warfare), 2nd copy "Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe (Luftwaffe Operational Staff), 3rd copy "AOK Norway, 4th copy."
I might draw the attention of the Tribunal to the fact that the AOK Norway at that time had in Finland contact with the Russian forces -- that is, was also assigned in the East -- and then comes OKW, the rest of the copies.
Court No. V, Case No. VII.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me. The remarks that I am about to make are not directed to the Prosecution staff, or any of its present members. It is quite apparent to me, - and I speak only for myself, - that this document is a very important document in connection with this particular question. I cannot understand why in the preparation of the document books in Washington, or at such other place as they may have been prepared, why the entirety of this document was not included.
It does not reflect to the credit of those who prepared this particular document. That these data included in this document, does not meet with my personal approval.
As I said before, my statements are in no way directed to the present prosecution staff.
DR. LATERNSER: The fact that this order was not valid, I can further prove with other documents.
I now submit List Document 107, as Exhibit No. 93. It is contained in Document Book 1, page 100. It is an affidavit by Lt. Col. Gaulmueller. Now I am going to read this third and fourth paragraph:
"From 12 January, 1941, I was captain and quartermaster of Corps Headquarters of XVIII Mountain Army Corps, which was under General Boehme's Command and was subordinate to the Command of the 12th Army."
I will skip the rest of this paragraph, and read the last paragraph:
"The order of the OKW (Keitel) to the effect, that resistance in the occupied territories should 'not be punished by Legal Prosecution of the offenders but by spreading terror' the so-called 'terror order' never came to my knowledge during the war, either in the Balkans or elsewhere. If this order had been given by Fieldmarshal List to the XVIII Corps before 15 September 1941, this order would have had to be brought to my knowledge on account of my position in the service."
I would like to submit as the next document on this point, List Document No. 27 (f), Exhibit No. 94. It is contained in List Document Book 1, page 101. It is an affidavit by General Krakau, and I am going to read from the second paragraph onwards:
"I was at that time Colonel and Commanding Officer of the Mountain Infantry Regiment 85 in the 5th Division. This division was subordinate to the XVIII Mountain Corps, and therefore to List's Army."
I skip the next sentence in this paragraph and continue with the last paragraph:
"The order of the OKW (Keitel) of 23 July 1941 to the effect, 'that resistance in the occupied territories should not be punished by legal prosecution of the offenders but by the spreading of terror and by the use of draconic measures' was never made known to me or to the regiment."
My next document, List No. 13, becomes Exhibit No. 95. It is contained in Document Book 1, page 102. It is an affidavit by Dr. Gruen, and I am going to read the last two paragraphs:
"The so-called terror order at no time came to my knowledge, while I was stationed in the Balkans.
"Furthermore, I have never had any knowledge of occurrences in the Balkans, which were the result of this order."
As the next Exhibit, No. 96, I submit List Document No. 37, in Document Book 1, page 103. It is an affidavit by Dr. Schaefer, and I am going to read the last two paragraphs:
"At the time of the events in question I was General Staff veterinary officer and Army veterinary officer of the 12th Army. An order of the OKW (Keitel) dated 23 July 1941 concerning the spreading of terror add the use of draconic measures never came to my knowledge while I was in the Balkans.
Signed, "Dr. Schaefer".
The terror order, therefore, did not apply in the Balkans.
This concludes my presentation of evidence with regard to Count III of the Indictment.
In Court IV of the Indictment, Field Marshal List is charged with bringing part of the population into concentration camps, and also with the prosecution of Jews through the Wehrmacht. I am going to prove that the internment of persons by the occupation power is not contrary to International Law, and further that concentration camps of the Wehrmacht were not in existence in the Balkans.
In this connection I would like to submit Document, List No. 165, as Exhibit No. 97. It is contained in Document Book II, page 1, and it is an excerpt from Directive 38 of the Allied Control Council for Germany, dated the 12th of October, 1946. I would like to read a brief extract from this, - in Document Book II, page 1:
"Control Council Directive No. 38. Arrest and punishment of war criminals, National-Socialists and Militarist, and internment, control and surveillance of potentially dangerous Germans.
"The Control Council issues the following directive:
Chapter I.
"1 Purpose:
"It is the purpose of this directive to create a common policy for the Whole of Germany in regard to:"
I skip the next two sections and come to (c). Therefore the purpose of this directive is to create general regulations with regard to the internment of Germans who without being guilty of specific crimes are considered to be dangerous to Allied purposes as well as the control and surveillance--"
MR. FULKERSON: I object to this document. In the first place it purports to be a Control Council Directive, and if that is true the Court can take judicial notice of it, and it does not need to be in evidence.
In the second place, it is irrelevant for the reason that the Control Council is not on trial here, and it certainly is outside of the scope of the issues here to go into a question of examination of their policy. And, finally, I cannot see what connection it possibly has with any of the charges which have been made against this particular defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: It is being offered, as I understand it, for the purpose of showing what is International Law.
The objection will be overruled.
DR. LATERNSER: I read paragraph (c), that is, that the purpose of this directive is to create a common policy for the whole of Germany in regard to:
"The internment of Germans who without being guilty of specific crimes are considered to be dangerous to Allied purposes as well as the control and surveillance of Germans who constitute a potential danger."
The next exhibit with regard to this point which I would like to submit is List No. 17, Exhibit No. 98. It is contained in Document Book 3, page 4. It is an affidavit by Dr. Gruen, Army Judge, and I will just read the last paragraph, page 4. It is Document Book 2, page 4:
"I have not known until now that concentration-camps on the lines of German conditions were said to have existed in the Balkans. I have so far only heard about one or the other so-called transit-camps in Serbia, where unreliable subjects were housed for reasons of security of the occupying power, and where they could be easily be guarded. As far as I am informed, these camps were established by the Military Administration of Serbia and were administered and guarded by the police."
The next document is List 137, which becomes Exhibit No. 99. It is in Document Book 2, page 5, Affidavit by Dr. Hammer, and I am going to read from the 4th paragraph onward:
"Ad rem".
I am sorry, I must read the third paragraph too:
"From 20 April 1941 until 9 April 1942 I was supervising Medical Officer and Oberstarzt with the Commanding General in Serbia; subsequently with the Commanding General and Commander-in-Chief in Serbia; until 1 September 1944 with the Military Commander Southeast; and until the collapse of the front I was the Army Physician of the 2nd Panzer Army.
"Ad rem: The conception concentration-camp as I have got to know it from English, American and German periodicals was unknown to me from the Balkan.
"I only knew that during summer 1941 for a short time a collective camp for Serbian civilians was established in a barracks situated south of the town of Sabac, which however--" I am sorry, how is the word, "Sammellager" translated?
TRANSLATOR: It is translated as "collective camp".
DR. LATERNSER: Thank you.
"I only know that during the summer of 1941 for a short time a collective camp for Serbian civilians was established in a barracks situated south of the town of Sabac, which, however, was seen dissolved again. As far as I know this camp was subordinated to the Chief of the Civilian Administration, Turner. If I remember correctly, a second camp was established at the beginning or during the middle of 1943. Administration and supervision rested exclusively with the SD and its organs. The military offices had nothing whatever to do with it. My hygiene expert, Stabsarzt Dr. Gerst, at present resident of Thale (Harz), Gesundheitshaus, succeeded several times in entering the camp of Semlin in order to get an idea about the situation as regards diseases and epidemics.
His welfare and care measures however were only partly carried out, since the SD refused to let him enter the camp again."
Now another document on the subject is List Document No. 160 (a), and this becomes Exhibit No. 100. It is contained in Document Book 3, page 52. It is an affidavit by Major Kliemann, and I would like to read the last paragraph at the bottom of page 52:
"To count 4 of the Indictment against General Field Marshal List 'Installation of Concentration Camps and Deportation of the civilian population as slave labor':
"I have no knowledge of any order issued by General Field Marshal List which concerns itself with the setting up of a concentration camp.
"If such camps existed in the South East they can have only been set up by the security police and the SD, or in Croatia by the Ustasha. The army had nothing to do with such matters.
"I also do not know of any such orders from the South Eastern territory which concern themselves with the deportation of civilians. The drafting of labor, for instance in Greece, was the business of the offices of the labor allocation department and was carried out independently from the Army."