The events took place in August 1944. Could you please give your comments about this to the Tribunal?
A. I can only make general comments in a similar way as I have done up to now, that these were various local tactical operations throughout the area of the Corps directed against the localities occupied by the bands, from which the bands carried out their activities. The individual reports show that there was fighting for the localities, that these were purely combat actions and that the villages were partially or totally destroyed or burned down during such combat operations. I might at this point stress that not in every case in which it is stated that one village destroyed, was it rendered completely unusable, but in the light of experience, in the majority of the cases this would merely mean that several houses of such a village were burned down.
Q. Document No. 93 refers to this last sentence of General Lanz, it is contained in Lanz document book 3. It is document 93 on page 58 of document book Lanz 3, it will be offered as exhibit No. 127. It is an affidavit of Bruno Willers, the same affiant who executed an affidavit which I have just read. he was First General Staff Officer under General Lanz from October, 1943 until the end of 1944. His statement about the case Katuna is identical with the statement made by General Lanz, therefore, I don't have to read this affidavit. It has been duly sworn to and properly certified.
The next document, which I would like to discuss, is NOKW 1122, exhibit 69 on pages 46 and 47 of the German and pages 63 and 64 of the English text. This is a translation of a German leaflet to the population of the districts of Phyvon and Lovadia; were these localities situated in the area under your jurisdiction, General?
A. I don't know where Phyvon is located. I could not find it on the maps which I had at my disposal, and I do not know it from the activities in my area. I know that the place Levadia is around the road from athens to Larissa, therefore this place was definitely not located in the area under my jurisdiction, but in a different area.
Q. On page 75 of the same document book, which is document book 20, page 105 of the English text, you find a report about an operation Seepferd. This is NOKW-1555, exhibit 475. Who issued this report, to whom was it addressed and what are your comments about it?
A. I do not know of an operation Seepferd as far as my area is concerned. I believe the report also shows that the area concerned is the Volos area. The Volos area was not part of the area under my jurisdiction. That must be a mistake on someone's part because Volos was never under my jurisdiction.
Q. This also becomes clear from a document contained in document book Lanz 3, which is document 89, the page number is 54 and the document will be offered, as exhibit 128. This is an affidavit duly sworn to and properly certified. The affiant is Gebhardt von Lenthe and I recommend the document to the judicial notice of the Tribunal.
In this same document book, document book 20 of the prosecution, there is document No. 1556, exhibit 477, this is on page 87 of the German text and page 123 of the English text. Here a mopping-up operation on the island of Leukas is reported from your Corps, dated 23 February 1944; was this island of Leukas part of the area under your jurisdiction, and what do you know about the action?
A. The island was part of the area under my jurisdiction and the action itself took place at a time when I was on leave in Germany.
Q. This brings me briefly to document book 21 of the Prosecution, here you are charged with document NOKW 537, which was given the exhibit No. 408, this on page 85 of the German text, page 75 of the English text. It is a directive of the OKW, dated 30 July, 1944 and refers to the treatment of foreign military missions; did you at the time pass on and carry out that order?
A. I have already discussed this affair and stated that I did not pass on that order. I believe it was the first day of my examination when I made such a statement.
Q. I believe General Lanz that brings us more or less to the end of the discussion of all the documents which the Prosecution has submitted as connected with you in some way or other.
To conclude your examination, there are a few questions which I want to put to you, General, In order to show the Tribunal your attitude and your conduct towards the civilian populations of the territories occupied at that time.
What is your point of view, General?
A My attitude towards the civilian population is, of course, not restricted merely to the population of Greece. This is a fundamental question. I have been assigned during this war in a number of countries. My fundamental attitude has always remained the same. It was the wish to protect and spare the peaceful population as much as possible to the extent to which it could be done on the basis of the conditions and where necessities of war were concerned. I wanted to spare the civilian population unnecessary hardship or losses to the best of my capability. That was one principle which did not restrict itself to Greece but which I tried to carry out in Russia as well as in France.
Q In which manner, General, did you carry out the care for the civilian population such as it was deemed desirable on you?
A In Greece I tried to do this in three different ways. One, was that from the very beginning I cooperated with the Greek civilian authorities and I may certainly say that this was done in a perfectly good and peaceful relationship. The second means was to endeavor to restrict the fighting with the partisans as far as was in my power, and the third means was to help the civilian population directly wherever I could or whenever the civilian population approached me with any particular wishes or requests.
Q General Lanz, did you fur that purpose maintain constant contact with the Greek authorities so that you were informed of the wishes and complaints of the population and so that you could take steps when necessary?
A I did that. I have stated once before that when I arrived in Joannina. I lived with the Mayor, because my billets were at that time still occupied by the Italian general. At that time I had a very friendly relationship with the mayor and his family, which was maintained during the whole period concerned. Shortly after I took over office in Joannina I called the authorities to a conference at my office to which they came. This conference was carried out in a very friendly and harmonious manner and all points of interest were discussed. In a very unrestrained and frank manner. I gave my point of view to the representatives of the authorities concerning my own task.
Mainly, I told them very honestly that I saw my main task in the prevention of an allied landing. I told them that we had nothing against the Greek population which, in my opinion even at this moment, is in arrangement with the facts. I asked the authorities to cooperate with me in the interests of the country. I asked them to tell me all their wishes and anxieties and to inform me personally so that I personally could take care of them wherever possible. I reserved the right for every individual to come to me directly with his wishes. I told them of my intentions to try and reach an agreement with General Zervas in the interests of the population. I believed that in this manner I honestly and frankly took the best possible course in our mutual interests.
I would like to repeat here again my conviction and my opinion that the band fighting, such as it unfortunately actually existed was utterly repulsive to me because I rejected it as a soldier, and as a human being I could certainly by no means regard it as desirable. Therefore, I endeavored, to the best of my capability, to eliminate or at least to restrict this band fighting but, after all, I alone could not direct the cause, for there was an opponent there who took action and I had to react. I could not order a withdrawal from Greece or anything like that because such things did not depend on me whether I wanted to or not; I had to put up with the conditions such as I faced them when I arrived there, and all I could do was to endeavor to make the best of the existing conditions and this I tried to do.
Q Is it correct, General Lanz, that for this purpose and in order to fulfil the plans you had made for yourself, you took up contact with the Greek governor and with the Bishop and Mayor of Joannina on repeated occasions and that you had personal discussions with these men in order to find out what you could do for the population?
A Yes, that is quite correct. I maintained constant contact with the gentlemen you mentioned. I instructed my ADC and my adjutant, Captain Schmitt, to keep in touch with these gentlemen and to inform me of all personal wishes and requests this was done. During the whole period I might say there was a friendly mutual relationship which was maintained until the last day and the last hour of my stay in the Balkans. There can be no doubt about this at all.
Q Can you indicate a few ways in which you tried to help the civilian population and to ease their difficult position during the occupation period? What, in detail, was done, just give us a few examples?
A Mainly, the population concerned was that which surrounded me, the population of Joannina. In Joannina there was a state of complete peace. People did their work during the day and in the evening, there was perhaps a concert on the Metaxas Square. People went up and down, hundreds of them, and went for walks. I went around without any weapons, without any protection, in Joannina. I rode horseback in the vicinity. The population was completely peaceful and loyal in that area and this state remained until the very last minute.
I tried in several ways to help with the distribution of food from army stock, through distribution of clothing, especially for the poorer parts of the population; and I put many stocks of this kind at the disposal of the Bishop of Joannina which he accepted very gratefully or, indeed, and distributed. We obtained films for the population, even foreign films, American films, French films, et cetera, which were shown in the civilian cinemas. I obtained money, for instance, in answer to the wishes of the mayor in order to pay the authorities. This money had to be fetched from Athens because there was no money in Joannina. That was brought there in our own courier vehicles so that the population could continue its life there.
Briefly, there were many and various ways in which peacefully and in a harmonious manner I cooperated with the authorities until the very last minute.
Q General Lanz, during the course of your examination you have mentioned that the representative of the Red Cross in Greece was at that time the Swiss, Bickel. Did this M. Bickel, after the end of the war, during your captivity visit you on repeated occasions in camps, and did he on these occasions express to you his gratitude and his recognition of your collaboration with the International Red Cross which looked after the protection of the Greek civilian population? Is that correct?
A The Swiss citizen Bickel was a man with whom I had much contact during my stay in the Balkans. He was the representative of the International Rod Cross and he came from Athens to see me in Joannina, I did not know him prior to that occasion. He was originally unknown to me. Ho stayed after that for several months in my area and a certain friendly attitude and relationship resulted from this stay. I supported him to the best of my ability, especially by sending food transports into those areas oven, which I would like to stress, which wore occupied by the partisans. I supported him in all sorts of ways by giving him certificates to obtain fuel and gasoline, et cetera, and by putting food and clothing at his disposal, et cetera, so that a friendly relationship resulted from this work.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, please. We will take our noon recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The court Trill be in recess until one-thirty this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours 25 November 1947) HUBERT LANZ- Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
THE MARSHAL: All persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q General Lanz, before the recess the last thing we discussed was when you told us about your relations with the delegate of the International Red Cross, M. Bickel of Switzerland. I asked you in that connection whether this Swiss gentleman visited you in various camps after the end of the war and whether M. Bickel, as the representative of the Red Cross, expressed his unlimited recognition of yourself concerning your activity and the attitude you had taken towards the Greek civilian population and towards the Red Cross. Perhaps you can begin with your answer once again.
A What I said before was the M. Bickel came from Athens as a representative of the International Red Cross to Toanina and I think several months he remained there in order to look after the civilian population. In this charitable work of his I assisted him and, as I was deeply interested in it myself, and as I repeatedly emphasized. I wanted to do everything for the peaceful population. After that I didn't hear from M. Bickel for a lengthy period of time -- after the end of the war, I mean.
One day he visited the prisoners of war camp near New--Ulm where I was interned as the International Red Cross had told him to visit prisoners of war camps in Bavaria. We had a chat on that occasion and we discussed our joint work in Greece. It that time he expressed to me his gratitude for my willingness to help which he had always found in my area in the old days.
When in January of this year I was transferred to Nurnberg, he wrote a letter to my wife from which I would like to read a few excerpts here. He says:
"Zurich 6 March 1947.
"Dear Frau Lanz:
He writes a few introductory remarks and then he says:
"No criminal act committed in the Epirus can be laid at the door of your husband. General Lanz was to me, as the delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Epirus, extremely helpful and he facilitated my assignment by putting gasoline at my disposal, for the transport of food supplies. Vehicles confiscated by the Wehrmacht I was able to use for my food transports. I oven received permission to take foodstuffs into areas which were occupied by the partisans.
"When General Lanz, before the departure of the 22nd Corps, put three food depots at the disposal of the International Red Cross for the starving population of Epirus, Bishop Spiridonos of Joannina said, "Lanz is not a war criminal."
"The partisan General Zervas, today a Minister in Athens, spoke of Lanz in a praising manner."
And then at the end he gives his greetings and kind regards. It is signed, "H. Bickel."
Q General Lanz, under your influence and on the basis of your personal example, did relations between German soldiers and agencies and the Greek population assume a favorable shape as did your own relations with Greek authorities and the Greek people; I mean under your influence and on the basis of your personal example?
A I can only give you a few glimpses of local conditions there. First of all, of course, in Joannina where I stayed every day, and also in other places where I paid occasional visits, it was my impression that the troops and the people were on good harmonious terms with the exception, of course, of those elements amongst the population who fought against us at the side of the partisans.
In Joannina itself our relations with the population was an entirely favorable one. I cannot remember a single case where any major difficulties, let alone conflicts would have arisen.
Q. General Lanz, when in the autumn of 1944 you left the Epirus in accordance with orders and departed from Joannina, how did the farewell from the civilian population look, and what were the conclusions one might draw concerning relations between the Wehrmacht and the Greek people in Epirus?
A. Well, there again I can only give you a purely local impression. Before I departed from Joannina I held, I think on the 10th of October a special ceremony during which I handed over our soldiers' cemetery to the City of Joannina. On that occasion I gave a brief address, expressing my gratitude to the town and its authorities. The cemetery was then officially taken over by the Burgermeister. Many of the inhabitants had appeared voluntarily on their own initiative. Present were the Governor, a representative of the bishop who was ill, and the Burgermeister. All three of them gave official addresses to me in the presence of a great many civilians and soldiers. All three of them gave official addresses to me in the presence of a great many civilians and soldiers. All three of them unanimously expressed their gratitude with great emphasis for the support and assistance which I had granted them. The Burgermeister promised me that I would find Joannina always a hospitable place should I return. The representative of the bishop gave me his official blessings in public. So the impression arose that these three gentlemen expressed what was their inner-most convictions. That was quite the general impression. Shortly before I left Joannina all three of them called on me and bade me their official good-byes.
Q. General Lanz, is it correct that on the occasion of your departure from Joannina you ordered your troops and officers not to destroy anything of the food supplies and other properties, but rather leave everything for the civilian population inasmuch as the troops could do without these things? Is that correct?
A. Yes, that is quite right.
Q. General Lanz, did you, at a later time, hear from a reliable source-- I mean after you left Epirus, that the population even regreted that you left Joannina at that time?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: If Your Honors please, I think Dr. Sauter can ask his questions in such a way that they don't demand a simple "yes" or "no " answer of the witness. They're obviously leading questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Sustained--also hear-say.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. In that connection I shall read a document which I would have preferred the defendant to explain, but which cannot be refused, even without the defendant's explanation. It is an affidavit in a entirely proper form by Dr. Hans Rahm. It is contained in Lanz Document Book V, and it is Document No. 159 on Page 6 of that document book. It is offered as Exhibit No. 129. I regard this as a particularly important affidavit because it comes from an officer who knew the situation as he went over to the Zervas troops when the German troops left Epirus, and he remained for some months in Episur. He is, therefore, in a position to report from his own observations how the population judged General Lanz. The affiant's name is Hans Rahm, who is 32 years of age. At the beginning of his affidavit he confirms that his position was that of a lieutenant and war reporter (Propaganda Company 690) in Joannina, the Headquarters of the XXIInd Mountain Army Command for the period of 13 October 1943 to 13 October 1944. The affiant says the following:
The attitude of General Lanz towards the population was in my view determined by following viewpoints:
1.) War is to be conducted against enemey fighting forces and not against the population.
2.) The population is to be permitted to carry on its daily life and economy undisturbed.
General Lanz always tried for humanitarian reasons to help the population, as far as conditions and the care for his own troops permitted it. As to General Zervas, General Lanz was anxious to avoid hostilities. The Zervas Army was attacked only after it had itself attacked German units withdrawing from Southern Greece over Arta-Jeannina.
Therefore, General Lanz favored the Zervas units in their struggle with the Elas (communist units).
I lived freely in Joannina after the evacuation of the Epirus by German troops from 14 October until 22 December 1944 and experienced the retreat from the Epirus of the Zervas troops pursued by the Elas-forces, who were supported by Albanians and Bulgars. I never heard that General Lanz was attacked by Greeks personally or in their press, or that he should have been accused and made responsible for any incident during the German occupation.
The affiant has sworn to the statement, and it is duly certified.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: Your Honor, I move now, somewhat belatedly I admit, that the reading of a letter purportedly to come from a Mr. Bickel in reply to General Lanz, that that part of the reading of his testimony be stricken. It is an unsworn statement, and we have no opportunity to cross-examine the witness. We have no testimony that Mr. Bickel made the handwritting, or that it is, in fact, a letter from Mr. Bickel.
THE PRESIDENT: The objection is overruled. It's a little tardily made.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q. If the Tribunal please, concerning the treatment accorded to the civilian population and authorities by General Lanz, we have submitted a number of affidavits. They amount to a fair number, but I shall not read the individual documents. They more or less are all of the same tendency. One describes this detail, and the other describes that one, But in this totality they prove that what Witness Lanz has said on the witnessstand has been correct. I shall furnish the relevant exhibit numbers. I would ask the Court to take judicial notice of the, even if I do not read them in detail now. , There is first in Lanz Document Book III an affidavit, No. 100, on Page 69, which will become Exhibit No. 130.
It has been given by the Administrative Officer of the XXIInd Mountain Corps, an officer who served from September, 1943 until the end of the war under General Lanz.
The next document is contained in the same document book, Lanz Document Book III. This is Document No. 101, and it will become Exhibit No, 131, on Page 72.
THE PRESIDENT: What pages numbers are you giving, the English pages numbers?
DR. SAUTER: They are the English and the German, Your Honor. They are identical.
This was Document No. 101, and it becomes Exhibit No. 131. The affiant in this case is called Doeppenschmitt, who has furnished other affidavits as well.
Then, we have Document No. 102, the following one, on Page 76, which will become Exhibit No. 132. It is given by affiant Max Prollius, who was the adjutant of the Corps and the personnel officer with the staff of General Lanz.
Then, we come to Document No. 105, on Page 86, which will become Exhibit No. 133. The affiant is Dr. Schleinzer, who, from the summer of 1943 until the end of the war, served in Joannina and Croatia as a surgeon of the reserve in a field hospitals He describes his experiences in that area.
The next document, which is contained in the same document book, is Document No. 106, on Page 89, which will become Exhibit No. 134. The affiant is Dr. Grassmann, also a doctor in that area. He was serving in a number of hospitals between June, 1943 and April. 1945. He spent those two years in Joannina.
The next document is Document No. 107, on Page 91, which will become Exhibit No. 135. The affiant is again a medical officer, Dr. Eugen Lichti. He was serving in Joannina in 1944 as an Oberstarzt (Colonel of the Medical Corps).
The next but one document in this volume is Document No. 108, on Page 96, which will become Exhibit No. 137. It, again, was given by a doctor, Dr. Sigmund Beck, who was a chief medical officer and surgeon in in Field Hospital 54.
The next document is Document No. 110, in the same volume, on Page 99, which will become Exhibit No. 138. The affiant in this case is Karl Wilhelm Thilo, again a medical man who was down there in the autumn of 1943.
The next document will be Document No. 108, in the same document book, on Page 93, and this is offered as Exhibit No. 136. The affiant here is called Theodor Spanke.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Sauter, please--some of us seem to have given the wrong exhibit number to certain of your exhibits. Your last exhibit that you referred to was given as Exhibit No. 136. Is that correct? Is that they way you wish to state it?
DR. SAUTER: Yes, No. 136.
THE PRESIDENT: Had you previously omitted giving No. 136?
DR. SAUTER: No, Your Honor. Should I start once again, lest there be a mistake, with Document No. 107, on Page 91?
THE PRESIDENT: Start with No. 135, and then we'll see where we are.
DR. SAUTER: Yes, certainly.
Exhibit No. 135 is Document No. 107 in Volume III, on Page 91. This is Exhibit No. 135. That brings us to Exhibit 136, which was given to Document No. 108, in Volume III, on Page 93. Exhibit 137 was given to Document No. 108, in Volume III, on Page 96. Exhibit No. 138 will become Document No. 110, on Page 99 of Volume III. That is Exhibit 138.
THE PRESIDENT: That checks out all right now.
DR. SAUTER: And that brings us to Document No. 111, on Page 100 of Volume III, which will become Exhibit No. 139. Then there's one more document in Lanz Document Book IV, which is Document No. 143 and No. 144, on Pages 70 to 73, which will become Exhibit No. 140.
I believe that brings the exhibit numbers into their proper order now.
If the Tribunal please, this brings me to the end of my directexamination of Defendant Lanz. At this time I have no further questions to put to him.
THE PRESIDENT: Before you complete your examination, Dr. Sauter, may I make the inquiry as to whether or not you have any affidavit from the Red Cross representative Bickel? Do you have an affidavit from him?
DR. SAUTER: No, all we have is the latter addressed to General Lanz personally. I could also produce letters written to General Lanz' wife where he confirms that her husband, of course, cannot be regarded as a war criminal.
THE PRESIDENT: That answers the question then.
DR. SAUTER: It was my intention, Your Honor, to go to Zuerich myself to obtain an affidavit from him, but we Germans--I had to find out unfortunately--find it so terribly difficult under present-day circumstances to go to Switzerland, that I dropped that plan.
Thank you very much, Your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any of the defense counsel who wish to examine the defendant at this time?
DR. LATERNSER: May it please the Court, I have a few questions which I would like to ask General Lanz on behalf of Field Marshal von Weichs.
DIRECT-EXAMINATION BY DR. LATERNSER:
Q General, as you have testified, you received an order near Voronesh, on the basis of a certain situation. What did the order demand of you?
A The order demanded, as I have testified before, that I should lead an attack against the flank of an advancing Russian unit.
Q When you finally received that order had the situation changed on the side of the enemy?
A May I say here that I was given that order in the Fuehrer's headquarters and that until I carried it out about three days elapsed. In that period the situation had indeed changed considerably against all foresight.
Q Was that change, witness, important for the fact that you did not carry out the order which was given you in the Fuehrer's headquarters?
A Not only was the change in the situation important, it was the reason why--I mean why I did not carry out the attack. The situation had changed so considerably that the original basic conditions were no longer applicable. For that reason I had to act on my own conscience.
Q General, I don't know whether this has been discussed yet, but are there any provisions in regulations that in the event of a fundamental change in a given situation a man may be relieved from carrying out an order he has received?
A You are quite right. There is an official regulation. I cannot tell you, at the moment, which one it is, but it roughly says that the subordinate officer acts on his own responsibility if he believes that, by a new set of circumstances, the order which he had received is no longer feasible.
I did indeed act on my own responsibility.
Q Or another way of putting it is this: The order need not be carried out if and when, because of the change in the situation, the man who has received the order must assume that if the situation had been known the order would not have been issued?
A Yes, this is a perfectly possible interpretation.
Q General, another case--the disarming of the Italians in Athens and the case of General Vecchiavelli: What was the order you received at that time from Army Group E?
A The order was, if I remember rightly, that I should disarm the XIth Italian Army and cause their surrender, provided, of course, that the Army Group would consent.
Q General, and why did you attempt to deviate from the order?
A I had two motives: One reason was, as I have repeatedly stated, that I wanted to avoid conflict and, particularly, a fight with the Italians at any price. And, secondly, that General Vecchiavelli made a proposition to me which seemed to me to represent a particularly favorable way out of the difficulty. That is why I agreed with the reservation, of course, that the Army Group would give consent.
Q What you wanted to do, General, was to achieve the same purpose which the order aimed at in a different way?
A Yes.
Q A few questions about the incidents on Kephalonia and Korfu. What opinion was held about General Gandin before the capitulation?
A Well, as far as I know, he was regarded as a particularly proGerman Italian general. That is what I found in documents.
Q Was it perhaps that fact which caused, among other things, that on the highest level, so much indignation raged against General Gandin?
A Well, of course, I can express only an assumption.
Q Or if you have heard something about it perhaps?
A I can well imagine that this was so. This would be psychologically quite plausible but any official evidence to this effect I have never received.
Q General, you were given the order after the capitulation to shoot all prisoners connected with this affair. Who was it you saw about your intention of not carrying out the order?
A Well, of course my superior agency which was Army Group E. There was nobody else I could contact about a problem like that.
Q And whom did you talk to on that occasion?
A I am unable to tell you with absolute certainty. It was either Chief of Staff or it was General Loehr but I am not quite sure any more.
Q What attitude was taken by Army Group E towards your objections to the order?
A If I remember rightly, it was my impression that Army Group E was in agreement with my views.
Q The proposition you made, namely to rescind or at least moderate the order, passed on to higher quarters?
A I am bound to assume that because, after all, the reply which came was already more moderate.