This affidavit has been duly sworn to and properly certified.
The next report, witness, is also a report by the Corps Group Joannina dated 27 April 1944 contained in Document Book XX, NOKW-1551, Exhibit 458, on pages 6 and 7 of the German and 8 and 9 of the English. Can you tell us briefly what this report is about?
A It is a similar incident; it is once again an event which took place during my absence in April when I was in Hungary. I had no knowledge, in other words, of these incidents.
Q The same Document Book XX contains another document which is NOKW-885, Exhibit 459 on pages 8 through 10 of the German and 10 through 12 of the English. On page 10 through 12 of Document Book XX.
This, witness, concerns the deportation of Jews from the Island of Korfu. This document was discussed in another connection, but not in your own case. Was the Island of Korfu part of your area?
A Yes, certainly.
Q Was the deportation of Jews, such as this document reflects, ordered by you?
A No, most certainly not.
Q Who ordered it?
AAccording to the document, the order came from Army Group E, but I think one may take it for granted that the initiative did not come from Army Group--that must have been an order which came from higher up. Presumably from the Reichsfuehrer SS, because it was not an isolated case.
Q What, witness, did you hear about this affair at the time? The deportation of Jews from Korfu?
A Well, first of all, I heard nothing. I heard when the matter was already under way. The reason for this was that a representative of the Reichsfuehrer had arrived in the area of my Corps without my knowing anything about it. He went to Korfu in order to make the necessary arrangements there for the evacuation. He kept his order a secret there, and it was only afterwards that I heard through the commandant of Korfu about all this, namely that this man was staying in Korfu.
Q What did you do, General Lanz, when you were informed about the presence of this gentleman and also of his assignment?
A First of all, I was most annoyed. I thought this measure was completely superfluous and undesirable. I could not see why this should be done at all. On the other hand, it was quite obvious to me that eventually I could not prevent these things, unfortunately, I told my staff, and my officers knew that I did not wish to be mixed up in this business and that, therefore, this gentleman from the SS would not receive any support from us. If I remember correctly, I reported to the Army Group that I regarded this matter as a highly undesirable one, and superfluous and unnecessary and that I would be grateful if it could be discontinued, but if it could not be avoided I would ask that it should be done in one blow as quickly as possible. I added that I could not do anything to assist. I had no shipping nor men available. That is what I told the Army Group.
Q Were you asked before you sent out this communication--did anybody ask you whether you could give guards, for instance, for the evacuation of Jews from Korfu?
A That is entirely possible that people asked me for that.
Q And you turned it down, did you?
A Yes, I turned it down in the manner which I have just described, but that was my conviction. I was very indignant about the whole incident and opposed it as much as I could.
Q Did you in your area while you were down there have any difficulties with Jews or were your relations with them smooth? What were the experiences you made and what attitude did you take?
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, please. We will take our morning recess and we will get the answer to the question when we return.
(A recess was taken.)
Q. Witness, we had stopped before the recess when were discussed the Jewish question; perhaps you can now give us your answer to who question which I put to you just before.
A. Please, what was your question?
Q. When we discussed the deportation of Jews from Kerfu I asked you what kind of experiences you had made during the period of your activities in Greece in 1943 and 1944 with the Jews who lived there, what was your attitude towards this whole problem?
A. I didn't make any particular experience in this sphere. Where the Jewish question was concerned, if I may put it this way, I was completely indifferent. There was no such thing as a Jewish question to me personally, and I did not attach any particular importance to these matters as far as my own person was concerned. The Jews never done me any harm nor had I done them any warm. Therefore, I was completely Indifferent where this matter was concerned, but I couldn't see any reason for this measure which we had discussed. I considered it superfluous and it annoyed me.
Q. You assumed that this measure had been ordered at the time by the SS or possibly by the Reichsfuehrer of the SS Himmler; do you happen to know whether anything in particular had happened regarding the Jews from Korfu because they were the ones to be deported; was any reason for this action known to you?
A. What I am going to say now is only assumptions, but there was something in the air in those days and these things happened all the time. After all this was not an individual action. Such actions took place everywhere. It was not a special case. I would just like to recall the measures taken in Hungary, which I partly saw or experienced because I was there when I was in Hungary.
Q. Do you believe that you, as commanding general of a corps, had any actual possibility to prevent the deportation of the Jews from Korfu?
A. I am of the opinion that at that time I had no actual such possibility, Of course I could have opposed with force. I could have forbidden the SS to enter the island of Korfu, and enforced this roder, but all that would have only been a temporary measure. It would not have altered any material facts ever which I had no actual possibility to intervene. The consequences of such an action, by the way, are quite obvious. I don't think I have to comment on them.
DR. SAUTER: If it please the Tribunal, in this connection I would like to offer a few more documents in evidence. The documents concerned are contained in Lanz Document Book IV. There is Document 138 on page 63. This will be offered, as Exhibit Lanz 122. This is an affidavit. The affiant is Ulrich Buerker. From February 1944 until August 1944 he was Chief of Staff with the Headquarters of the 22nd Mountain Corps. That is he served under General Lanze. I dont believe I have to read the document, because the statements of the affiant completely coincide with the testimony given by General Lanz. In the concluding sentence on page 53a the affiant Buerker confirms that the deportation of Jews from Korfu was strictly a matter of the Reichs-fuehrer SS and the agencies subordinate to him.
The further document which I am going to offer in evidence is the following document in Document Book Lanz IV, which is Document 139 on pages 64 and 65 of Document Book IV. This will become Exhibit Lanz 123. This again is an affidavit of a former captain, Matthias Starl, who has furnished other affidavits which have been introduced here. He was, as he states, in the introductory paragraph, a captain and first Ad.C. of the 22nd Mountain Corps from 3 September 1943 until 14 November 1943, and later on Ia with combat group Steyrer. The affiant reports on the deportation of certain Jews from Korfu in a similar manner as the previous affiant, therefore, I am not going to read this document verbatim. It shows that the whole action was organized by the SC.
The SS kept the organization of this action strictly secret, even from the Wehrmacht and on page 55 towards the end of his affidavit the affiant Mathias Starl says that General Lanz explicitly forbad to put shipping space at the disposal of 22nd Mountain Corps for the deportation of the Jews on Korfu, and that he also forbad that soldiers under his command should be detailed as escorts for the deportation, which did not happen, as a fact.
About the same subject matter, there is another document, the next document, No. 140 on page 66 of document book Lanz 4. This will become exhibit Lanz 124. It is an affidavit by the affiant Fritz Doeppenschmitt, whose name is known to us from other affidavits and whose name was furnished and introduced in this case. He was a clerical officer under General Lanz from the period of August, 1943 until August, 1944. His statements also coincide with the statements contained in the two previous affidavits. I, therefore, do not want to read this document. I recommend it to the judicial notice of the Tribunal. The three documents, which were just introduced by me and which received exhibit Nos. 122, 123 124 have all been duly sworn to and properly certified.
Witness, this brings me to yet another document, which is contained in document book 20 of the Prosecution. This is NOKW 885, which is exhibit 459 - exhibit 459, it is on page 10 of document book 20. It is a report of 12 May 1944, according to which two villages were destroyed in the area of Kalabakka. What can you tell us about this document, witness?
A This is a similar combat action only dated somewhat later than the one described by me previously. Here again it deals with Communist bands who stayed in the Kalabakka area and from that area attacked our traffic along the main-highway, which led from Mecovon to Trikkala.
Q Can you as an expert tell from the report if this was an action of military necessity?
A That can be seen from the actual text, as it is reproduced here. It is quite obvious that this is a purely technical military action. I have no doubt that this is so.
Q You mean the action against the band strongholds?
A Yes, there is no question that that is it.
Q Then, in document book 20 of the Prosecution we have another document, NOKW 942, which became exhibit 460. This is on page 12 of the German text and page 16 of the English document book. It contains a report of Army Group E to the Commander in Chief Southeast, dated 31 July 1944.
This report deals with the area under the XXII Corps, which is the area under your jurisdiction. Can you give us your comments on this affair?
A This matter is repeatedly mentioned in subsequent reports. To the best of my information, the facts are the following. On the local railway from Messolonsion to Agrinion attacks had frequently been carried out by Communist partisans. During these surprise attacks, not only soldiers had been killed, but also civilians. A similar raid on this railroad is obviously concerned in this case which we are dealing with now. An additional fact here shows that a telephone communication group had been attacked by these Communists, which resulted in eight dead and fourteen wounded. These Communists mentioned here were shot. I believe I can recall that this measure mentioned here was not carried out by the 104th Division, but by an Efson unit which was stationed in the area of Messolonsion and Agrinion. The report was passed on because the division had to report everything that had been happening in the area, but it does not mean that the division itself carried out the measure. From a previous incident that I happen to know, I am fairly sure that the Efsonen were the ones who carried out the shooting here. I am inclined to believe that was the case here, particularly so because the division had reported to me it had not carried out the measure.
Q If I interpret your answer correctly, General, you mean that you only heard of that report after it occured and through the reports?
A That is correct.
Q You said the measure was carried out by a unit of the Efzones, that is a Greek unit; isn't it?
A To the best of my knowledge that was a Greek police unit.
Q And who was in charge of the Efzones units in your area; were they subordinate to you or to whom?
A They were under no circumstances subordinate to me. I am not sure whether they were subordinate to the Greek Government, or whether they were subordinate to the Higher SS and Police leader. I am not sure of this, all I do know of this for sure is that they were not subordinate to me.
Q And when you received the report of the division, irrespective of the fact whether the division was the unit that carried out the measure, did you take any steps, General, and if so, what steps did you take?
A I believe I can recall that I got in touch with the division, but unfortunately there were at the time disturbances of the communication lines, as I have already mentioned. In July bandit attacks had been carried out by the Zervas partisans and these disturbed the communications on the road from Joannina via Arta to Athens at least temporarily. I think I can remember, though, that I tried to gather information about the facts and that on that occasion it was reported to me that it was not the division unit which carried out the measure, but a unit of the Efzones. I believe I can recall that information quite well.
Q If it please the Tribunal, there is a document in Lanz document book 5, which is concerned with this case. This is document 160 on page 8 of document book Lanz 5, which will be offered under exhibit Lanz No. 125. It is an affidavit executed by Gebhardt von Lenthe, who was I-C under General Lanz from September, 1943 until the end of the war. The statements refer to document NOKW 942, which the defendant has just discussed. It is exhibit 460 of the prosecution and the statements contained in the affidavit are more or less identical with the statements made here by General Lanz. The affidavit has been properly sworn to by the affiant Lenthe and the affidavit has been certified in the correct manner.
The Prosecution has also incriminated you with participation in the operation Kreuzotter. This is document NOKW 162, contained in document book 20, it is exhibit 461 on pages 13 and 14 of document book 20 and pages 17 and 18 of the English text in document book 20. This document contains a report by the 104th Mountain Division, dated 22 August 1944. It says that the connecting circle Karpenission and several other localities were destroyed.
I ask you now did you order this operation and if you did, why?
A This operation was directed against Communist partisans, who were staying in the border area between the area of my corps and the area of the neighboring corps. The operation had been ordered at that time by the army group and was passed on by me to the 104th Infantry Division for execution. The partisan group involved here had for several months stayed in the area around Karpenission. This place Karpenission is a larger mountainous place, which is also mentioned in the map submitted and it was located in a border area between the area of my corps and the neighboring corps. Karpenission had for some time been known to us as the seat of communist fighting leadership in that area and this had been confirmed to us. Once or twice we had carried out tactical operations against Karpenission in order to prevent this band group from continuing its activities, however, we did not succeed in doing this. The Communist bands congregated again and again in this border area, which is a mountainous terrain, where they felt comparatively safe. From this mountain area they directed their operations and attacks against us.
Q. The localities were destroyed, were they witness?
A. Yes, according to the reports they were. The places involved are Karpenission and a few other places, which according to the troop reports were destroyed during this operation.
Q. And here again you maintain that purely military reasons were decisive, is that so?
A. As far as I am concerned, I do not doubt this in the least, because the operation was carried out mainly to eliminate this band group which we had not succeeded in doing in previous operations which had been going on for months. That is why the Army Group insisted that this source of danger, this centre of the Communist bands, should at least be rendered harmless.
Q. In this connection, I am offering A document to the Tribunal in document book Lanz 3. This is document No. 82 on page 44, which will be offered under exhibit No. 126. This again is an affidavit executed by the affiant Bruno Willers, who from October, 1943 until 1944 was First General Staff Officer with General Lanz. The affiant testifies to the operation Kreuzotter in document 82 in the same way it has been discussed here by General Lanz. Toward the end of his statement he confirms that the majority of the population there fought together with the partisans. The places concerned were band nests of resistance and from them attacks were constantly carried out against German troops. The destruction of these bands of resistance was, therefore, as the affiant says an absolute military necessity.
The next document, which we want to discuss, witness, is also contained in document book 20 of the Prosecution. This is document NOKW 940, exhibit 462. It contains several reports of Army Group E to the Commander in Chief Southeast concerning the area of the XXII Mountain Corps. The document can be found on pages 17, 18, 20, 21, 22 and 23 of the German version, which are pages 25, 27, 29, 30, 31. 32 and 33 of the English version. From these reports it can be seen that during several reconnaissance and mopping-up operations directed against bands, the band villages concerned were destroyed.
The events took place in August 1944. Could you please give your comments about this to the Tribunal?
A. I can only make general comments in a similar way as I have done up to now, that these were various local tactical operations throughout the area of the Corps directed against the localities occupied by the bands, from which the bands carried out their activities. The individual reports show that there was fighting for the localities, that these were purely combat actions and that the villages were partially or totally destroyed or burned down during such combat operations. I might at this point stress that not in every case in which it is stated that one village destroyed, was it rendered completely unusable, but in the light of experience, in the majority of the cases this would merely mean that several houses of such a village were burned down.
Q. Document No. 93 refers to this last sentence of General Lanz, it is contained in Lanz document book 3. It is document 93 on page 58 of document book Lanz 3, it will be offered as exhibit No. 127. It is an affidavit of Bruno Willers, the same affiant who executed an affidavit which I have just read. he was First General Staff Officer under General Lanz from October, 1943 until the end of 1944. His statement about the case Katuna is identical with the statement made by General Lanz, therefore, I don't have to read this affidavit. It has been duly sworn to and properly certified.
The next document, which I would like to discuss, is NOKW 1122, exhibit 69 on pages 46 and 47 of the German and pages 63 and 64 of the English text. This is a translation of a German leaflet to the population of the districts of Phyvon and Lovadia; were these localities situated in the area under your jurisdiction, General?
A. I don't know where Phyvon is located. I could not find it on the maps which I had at my disposal, and I do not know it from the activities in my area. I know that the place Levadia is around the road from athens to Larissa, therefore this place was definitely not located in the area under my jurisdiction, but in a different area.
Q. On page 75 of the same document book, which is document book 20, page 105 of the English text, you find a report about an operation Seepferd. This is NOKW-1555, exhibit 475. Who issued this report, to whom was it addressed and what are your comments about it?
A. I do not know of an operation Seepferd as far as my area is concerned. I believe the report also shows that the area concerned is the Volos area. The Volos area was not part of the area under my jurisdiction. That must be a mistake on someone's part because Volos was never under my jurisdiction.
Q. This also becomes clear from a document contained in document book Lanz 3, which is document 89, the page number is 54 and the document will be offered, as exhibit 128. This is an affidavit duly sworn to and properly certified. The affiant is Gebhardt von Lenthe and I recommend the document to the judicial notice of the Tribunal.
In this same document book, document book 20 of the prosecution, there is document No. 1556, exhibit 477, this is on page 87 of the German text and page 123 of the English text. Here a mopping-up operation on the island of Leukas is reported from your Corps, dated 23 February 1944; was this island of Leukas part of the area under your jurisdiction, and what do you know about the action?
A. The island was part of the area under my jurisdiction and the action itself took place at a time when I was on leave in Germany.
Q. This brings me briefly to document book 21 of the Prosecution, here you are charged with document NOKW 537, which was given the exhibit No. 408, this on page 85 of the German text, page 75 of the English text. It is a directive of the OKW, dated 30 July, 1944 and refers to the treatment of foreign military missions; did you at the time pass on and carry out that order?
A. I have already discussed this affair and stated that I did not pass on that order. I believe it was the first day of my examination when I made such a statement.
Q. I believe General Lanz that brings us more or less to the end of the discussion of all the documents which the Prosecution has submitted as connected with you in some way or other.
To conclude your examination, there are a few questions which I want to put to you, General, In order to show the Tribunal your attitude and your conduct towards the civilian populations of the territories occupied at that time.
What is your point of view, General?
A My attitude towards the civilian population is, of course, not restricted merely to the population of Greece. This is a fundamental question. I have been assigned during this war in a number of countries. My fundamental attitude has always remained the same. It was the wish to protect and spare the peaceful population as much as possible to the extent to which it could be done on the basis of the conditions and where necessities of war were concerned. I wanted to spare the civilian population unnecessary hardship or losses to the best of my capability. That was one principle which did not restrict itself to Greece but which I tried to carry out in Russia as well as in France.
Q In which manner, General, did you carry out the care for the civilian population such as it was deemed desirable on you?
A In Greece I tried to do this in three different ways. One, was that from the very beginning I cooperated with the Greek civilian authorities and I may certainly say that this was done in a perfectly good and peaceful relationship. The second means was to endeavor to restrict the fighting with the partisans as far as was in my power, and the third means was to help the civilian population directly wherever I could or whenever the civilian population approached me with any particular wishes or requests.
Q General Lanz, did you fur that purpose maintain constant contact with the Greek authorities so that you were informed of the wishes and complaints of the population and so that you could take steps when necessary?
A I did that. I have stated once before that when I arrived in Joannina. I lived with the Mayor, because my billets were at that time still occupied by the Italian general. At that time I had a very friendly relationship with the mayor and his family, which was maintained during the whole period concerned. Shortly after I took over office in Joannina I called the authorities to a conference at my office to which they came. This conference was carried out in a very friendly and harmonious manner and all points of interest were discussed. In a very unrestrained and frank manner. I gave my point of view to the representatives of the authorities concerning my own task.
Mainly, I told them very honestly that I saw my main task in the prevention of an allied landing. I told them that we had nothing against the Greek population which, in my opinion even at this moment, is in arrangement with the facts. I asked the authorities to cooperate with me in the interests of the country. I asked them to tell me all their wishes and anxieties and to inform me personally so that I personally could take care of them wherever possible. I reserved the right for every individual to come to me directly with his wishes. I told them of my intentions to try and reach an agreement with General Zervas in the interests of the population. I believed that in this manner I honestly and frankly took the best possible course in our mutual interests.
I would like to repeat here again my conviction and my opinion that the band fighting, such as it unfortunately actually existed was utterly repulsive to me because I rejected it as a soldier, and as a human being I could certainly by no means regard it as desirable. Therefore, I endeavored, to the best of my capability, to eliminate or at least to restrict this band fighting but, after all, I alone could not direct the cause, for there was an opponent there who took action and I had to react. I could not order a withdrawal from Greece or anything like that because such things did not depend on me whether I wanted to or not; I had to put up with the conditions such as I faced them when I arrived there, and all I could do was to endeavor to make the best of the existing conditions and this I tried to do.
Q Is it correct, General Lanz, that for this purpose and in order to fulfil the plans you had made for yourself, you took up contact with the Greek governor and with the Bishop and Mayor of Joannina on repeated occasions and that you had personal discussions with these men in order to find out what you could do for the population?
A Yes, that is quite correct. I maintained constant contact with the gentlemen you mentioned. I instructed my ADC and my adjutant, Captain Schmitt, to keep in touch with these gentlemen and to inform me of all personal wishes and requests this was done. During the whole period I might say there was a friendly mutual relationship which was maintained until the last day and the last hour of my stay in the Balkans. There can be no doubt about this at all.
Q Can you indicate a few ways in which you tried to help the civilian population and to ease their difficult position during the occupation period? What, in detail, was done, just give us a few examples?
A Mainly, the population concerned was that which surrounded me, the population of Joannina. In Joannina there was a state of complete peace. People did their work during the day and in the evening, there was perhaps a concert on the Metaxas Square. People went up and down, hundreds of them, and went for walks. I went around without any weapons, without any protection, in Joannina. I rode horseback in the vicinity. The population was completely peaceful and loyal in that area and this state remained until the very last minute.
I tried in several ways to help with the distribution of food from army stock, through distribution of clothing, especially for the poorer parts of the population; and I put many stocks of this kind at the disposal of the Bishop of Joannina which he accepted very gratefully or, indeed, and distributed. We obtained films for the population, even foreign films, American films, French films, et cetera, which were shown in the civilian cinemas. I obtained money, for instance, in answer to the wishes of the mayor in order to pay the authorities. This money had to be fetched from Athens because there was no money in Joannina. That was brought there in our own courier vehicles so that the population could continue its life there.
Briefly, there were many and various ways in which peacefully and in a harmonious manner I cooperated with the authorities until the very last minute.
Q General Lanz, during the course of your examination you have mentioned that the representative of the Red Cross in Greece was at that time the Swiss, Bickel. Did this M. Bickel, after the end of the war, during your captivity visit you on repeated occasions in camps, and did he on these occasions express to you his gratitude and his recognition of your collaboration with the International Red Cross which looked after the protection of the Greek civilian population? Is that correct?
A The Swiss citizen Bickel was a man with whom I had much contact during my stay in the Balkans. He was the representative of the International Rod Cross and he came from Athens to see me in Joannina, I did not know him prior to that occasion. He was originally unknown to me. Ho stayed after that for several months in my area and a certain friendly attitude and relationship resulted from this stay. I supported him to the best of my ability, especially by sending food transports into those areas oven, which I would like to stress, which wore occupied by the partisans. I supported him in all sorts of ways by giving him certificates to obtain fuel and gasoline, et cetera, and by putting food and clothing at his disposal, et cetera, so that a friendly relationship resulted from this work.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, please. We will take our noon recess at this time.
THE MARSHAL: The court Trill be in recess until one-thirty this afternoon.
(A recess was taken until 1330 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours 25 November 1947) HUBERT LANZ- Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
THE MARSHAL: All persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
BY DR. SAUTER:
Q General Lanz, before the recess the last thing we discussed was when you told us about your relations with the delegate of the International Red Cross, M. Bickel of Switzerland. I asked you in that connection whether this Swiss gentleman visited you in various camps after the end of the war and whether M. Bickel, as the representative of the Red Cross, expressed his unlimited recognition of yourself concerning your activity and the attitude you had taken towards the Greek civilian population and towards the Red Cross. Perhaps you can begin with your answer once again.
A What I said before was the M. Bickel came from Athens as a representative of the International Red Cross to Toanina and I think several months he remained there in order to look after the civilian population. In this charitable work of his I assisted him and, as I was deeply interested in it myself, and as I repeatedly emphasized. I wanted to do everything for the peaceful population. After that I didn't hear from M. Bickel for a lengthy period of time -- after the end of the war, I mean.
One day he visited the prisoners of war camp near New--Ulm where I was interned as the International Red Cross had told him to visit prisoners of war camps in Bavaria. We had a chat on that occasion and we discussed our joint work in Greece. It that time he expressed to me his gratitude for my willingness to help which he had always found in my area in the old days.
When in January of this year I was transferred to Nurnberg, he wrote a letter to my wife from which I would like to read a few excerpts here. He says:
"Zurich 6 March 1947.
"Dear Frau Lanz:
He writes a few introductory remarks and then he says:
"No criminal act committed in the Epirus can be laid at the door of your husband. General Lanz was to me, as the delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Epirus, extremely helpful and he facilitated my assignment by putting gasoline at my disposal, for the transport of food supplies. Vehicles confiscated by the Wehrmacht I was able to use for my food transports. I oven received permission to take foodstuffs into areas which were occupied by the partisans.
"When General Lanz, before the departure of the 22nd Corps, put three food depots at the disposal of the International Red Cross for the starving population of Epirus, Bishop Spiridonos of Joannina said, "Lanz is not a war criminal."
"The partisan General Zervas, today a Minister in Athens, spoke of Lanz in a praising manner."
And then at the end he gives his greetings and kind regards. It is signed, "H. Bickel."
Q General Lanz, under your influence and on the basis of your personal example, did relations between German soldiers and agencies and the Greek population assume a favorable shape as did your own relations with Greek authorities and the Greek people; I mean under your influence and on the basis of your personal example?
A I can only give you a few glimpses of local conditions there. First of all, of course, in Joannina where I stayed every day, and also in other places where I paid occasional visits, it was my impression that the troops and the people were on good harmonious terms with the exception, of course, of those elements amongst the population who fought against us at the side of the partisans.