They made notes, but nothing happened.
Q. This was the camp at Natternberg, was it?
A. Yes, this was the camp at Natternberg, of which General Foertsch has spoken before. He arrived a little later and did not witness the scenes I have just mentioned. General Foertsch had succeeded after months and months of endeavor to see the commandant. Before then, the commandant had sent for a general and we hoped that we would be told more details, but he merely had his ears boxed in a strong manner and was kicked out again.
Q. Did you have to do any work in the camp at Natternberg?
A. No, we did not have to do any work, but we all worked voluntarily. He who did not work did not get this watery soup for lunch, and we were starving.
Q. What sort of work did you do?
A. I did earth work, I sawed wood, construction work, I carried things -- heavy physical work, in other words.
Q. And how long were you in this camp?
A. Eleven months.
Q. And where did you go after that?
A. Then I and the other generals came to Dachau. We were first accommodated in the prison, and then in what was called the generals camp, and there for the first time I was treated as a prisoner of war. Three months after that, I was sent to the prisoner of war camp at Garmisch, where I was treated completely correctly and well above reproach, as a general who was a prisoner of war.
Q. How long were you in Garmisch?
A. Three months or four months.
Q. Where did you go after that?
A. I came here to Nuernberg exactly a year ago, on the 18th of December, 1946.
Q. When were you interrogated here for the first time?
A. On 9 January of this year, after 23 days, in other words.
Q. Had you been told before that period of time why you had been sent here?
A. No.
Q. When were you informed of the purpose of your transfer to Nuernberg?
A. Well, I wasn't told in clear words. After my first interrogation on 9 January, I asked why I was in Nuernberg and then I was told I was here as a witness.
Q. When were you told that you might be put under an indictment?
A. I heard this when the indictment was handed to me on 12 May 1947.
Q. How often were you interrogated?
A. Seven times.
Q. By whom?
A. The first four times by Mr. Rapp and the last three times by Mr. Crailsheim.
Q. In the case of these examination, were you under any duress?
A. I can say there was psychological and physical duress; psychological duress on account of the uncertainty of my situation, I did not know what all this was about, and the physical duress inasmuch as during these examinations a soldier was sitting behind me.
Q. Were any records of interrogations submitted to you?
A. No.
Q. Were you in a position to find out whether these records were correct in reproducing your statements?
A. No; as they were not shown to me, I could not check up on this.
Q. Did you ever sign a record?
A. No.
Q. Did you make voluntary statements in writing yourself?
A. Yes.
PRESIDENT: The Court will take our noon recess at this time.
(A recess was taken until 1335 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 yours, 15 December 1947)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Courtroom will please be seated.
The Tribunal is again in session.
WILHELM SPEIDEL - Resumed DIRECT-EXAMINATION - Continued BY DR. WEISSGERBER:
Q General, I refer again to the last question which I put to you before the recess. It was with regard to the interrogation in the Nurnberg prison. My last question to you was whether you had ever made any written statements in connection with your interrogations.
A During the interrogations, of course, there was very much which was very unclear to me and I could not quite remember the connections at the time. I thought the questions over for some weeks and some days, and in order to establish the truth and facts, I set down in writing what I remembered and gave this information voluntarily to the interrogators.
Q Were any documents available to you to refresh your memory, and in order to clear up the questions brought up by the Prosecution?
A No, I had no documents at all.
Q Did you have the possibility to obtain an attorney for yourself?
A No.
Q And that brings us to the chronological end of the matters under discussion here. I must refer back again to two incidents which should have been discussed earlier, but at that time, for certain reasons I could not bring them up for discussion. The first one is an incident which is contained in Document Book XVIII of the Prosecution, Prosecution Exhibit No. 437, on Page 53 of the English text and Page 56 of the German text. This is the Ic evening report of the Military Commander Greece, dated the 10th of December 1943, and its contents are the report of the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters 538.
It concerns the shooting of 10 hostages in reprisal for the murder of a woman Frau Hapers. This report in itself can be interpreted as if this measure was carried out by the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters and as if you yourself had some responsibility in this matter. After careful consideration my client has done his very best to remember something about this case, -- (It is on Page 53) and he has come to the conclusion that neither he nor the Sub-area Administrative Headquarters had anything to do with this reprisal case. Therefore, my client has also included this incident in his compilation of the reports from the band combat area of the Higher SS and Police Leader which is set down in Speidel document No. 60, Speidel Exhibit No. 30. This report of the Higher SS a Police Leader in Boehia is included as No. I. The day before yesterday I received an affidavit which can clear up this matter, and from which it can also be seen that my client had nothing at all to do with it.
Your Honor, I know that it is very poor affair if the Defense produces affidavits at the very last minute, which are not contained in a document book and which are not even translated; but, nevertheless, I would ask that this be not interpreted as negligence, but I would ask the Tribunal to take into account all the difficulties which the Defense has in trying to collect material for its case. Addresses of persons who can give any kind of evidence are sometimes only made available at the very last minute and so it happens that affidavits can only be produced at a very late date.
THE PRESIDENT: Inquiry might be made of the Prosecution as to their attitude; it might save some time.
MR. FENSTERMACHER: I can appreciate Dr. Weissgerber's difficulties. I have no objection, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: To its being read into the record and submitted in form later?
MR. FENSTERMACHER: He may do as he pleases on the matter, Your Honor. I have no objection whatever.
DR. WEISSGERBER: Your Honor, then I would like to read the affidavit of Frau Irene Keilich. It is Speidel Document No. 74, and is contained in Speidel Document Book V. I would like to offer this affidavit as Speidel Exhibit No. 37.
THE PRESIDENT: Pardon me, please. Pardon me. Is there to be a Document Book V, Dr. Weissgerber?
DR. WEISSGERBER: Your Honor, I am still waiting for a few affidavits from abroad. I hope that they will arrive one day soon and I would like to compile them, together with this Keilich affidavit, into a supplementary document book.
THE PRESIDENT: Just so it's put into some book so we'll have access to it later.
DR. WEISSGERBER: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed, then.
DR. WEISSGERBER: Frau Keilich states: "From January 1940 until April 1944 I was the personal secretary of General Wilhelm Speidel, and accompanied him as such to his various offices abroad. The last one was from September 1942 onwards in Greece. General Speidel's tolerance is shown by the following incident: -
In an area which had always been a center of strong Communist bands unrest, the Kobeis the Wehrmacht had taken over a large farm. The director of this farm was an agriculturalist, who was daily in danger of his life. Nevertheless he received from General Speidel strict directions according to which the guard of soldiers which was available to him, was only to be used in case of self-defense. On a journey to Athens Dr. Magers' wife was shot to death in her car. General Speidel shared the indignation of Dr. Magers, but, nevertheless, he rejected reprisal measures, (shooting of hostages) which the latter demanded because in this way the guilty persons would certainly not be punished and, therefore, new unrest would arise."
The affidavit was given on the 12th of December 1947 before the notary in Landshut, and it is duly certified. I hope that this clears up the case of Frau Magers.
The second document which I would like to discuss with you at this point, General, is Speidel Document No. 72, which is contained in Speidel Document Book IV, Pages 34 and following. I offer this document as Speidel Exhibit No. 38. This is a compilation from the War Diary of the Military Commander Greece, and it includes those surprise raids and sabotage acts which occurred from the 21st of November 1943 until the 22nd of January 1944; and from the 22nd of March 1944 until the 17th of May 1944. The following are the reasons for the dates which are set down here for this compilation, for instance the 21st of November 1943, is the beginning of War Diary No. 4 of the Military Commander Greece. The period of time in between -- that is from the 22nd of November until the 22nd of January 1944; and March until May 1944 -- are selected because during the period in between General Speidel, as he stated this morning, was absent from Athens and was on sick and convalescent leave in Germany. I think it is expedient to submit this compilation to the Tribunal, because it includes those reports as they are set down in the War Diary by the Military Commander Greece for the periods given, and there are altogether 94 cases of sabotage and surprise raids, for which according to the War Diary reprisal measures were not taken or at least they did not come to the knowledge of the office of the Military Commander Greece.
Q General, what I wanted to ask you about this compilation here was, have you looked through the War Diary or the excerpts set down here, and can you tell us whether the incidents as set down here were contained in this form in your War Diary?
A I have carefully looked through the War Diary, and the contents of this compilation corresponds with the statements in the War Diary.
Q And this brings me to the end of this part as well. Now, General, I think it is necessary for you to state something quite briefly about the accusations of the Prosecution that you took part in the extermination and decimation policy of the German High Command and that you took part in this consciously. I think that your nonparticipation can be shown by my talking to you about the aid for the Greek population, in which you helped and in which you participated. First of all, one question: Who was responsible for the feeding of the Greek population?
A First of all, the Greek Government.
Q Did you, as Military Commander, also participate in the solution of this problem? -- because the feeding of an occupied country is of course a problem?
A With regard to your first question, I must add a supplementation. I said that the Greek Government was responsible, but it was never in a position to feed the population alone. A decisive part in this matter was played by the International Red Cross. And as a third factor there was the Special Plenipotentiary of the Gorman Reich, who, on his own part supported the Greek Government and also the International Red Cross, and he himself made essential contributions to the feeding of the population. I myself, in my capacity as Military Commander, did everything possible to give aid, insofar as I could support the work of these three people. I helped them in various ways -- mainly in close cooperation with the President of the International Red Cross, at that time Sandstroem a Swede. I can cite a few examples: Once I made available large quantities of fuel, even though the Wehrmacht fuel supply at that time was unfortunately very low. Further, I made all facilities available to the representative of the International Red Cross at that time, with regard to escorts for his trips, identity papers, personal recommendations etc.
Finally, in districts which were very difficult to negotiate, I placed food stocks of the Wehrmacht at the disposal of the Red Cross for the population, to be returned later.
Q And were these measures of aid restricted to the large Greek cities, such as Athens and Salonika, or was aid also given to the rest of the country?
A The distress was the same everywhere. Perhaps there was more in the large towns and also on the plains because the countryside could never feed itself entirely. Now, the aid given by the International Red Cross in the provinces was extremely limited and complicated because Army Group E had ordered so-called blockade zones. This means that in large areas which were thought to be infested with bands, the International Red Cross was not able to give aid. I myself, on my own initiative, decreased these blockade zones considerably; and in this way I made it possible for the food supply to be effective -- also, in those area infested by bands. My idea in this connection was that the population should not suffer from the band activity. I wanted to support and to help the population. The fact that through this error occurred could not be avoided. And, of course, I had some arguments with the Army Group because of this.
Q And wasn't there a danger that transports with supplies of the International Red Cross would fall into the hands of the bands?
A Yes, that happened. It could not be avoided. I myself found two passages in the documents which report about plundering of International Red Cross goods.
Q I would like to mention these two passages. One is contained in Prosecution Document Book XVIII, Exhibit No. 434, Page 19 of the English text and Page 22 of the German text. It states that "truck convoys of the International Red Cross were attacked 40 Km SW of Joannina; trucks and escort plundered." The second passage in the documents submitted here is to be found in Document Book XVIII, Prosecution Exhibit No. 437, Page 35 of the English and Page 45 of the German text.
Here it states "7th of April 1944 two Km north of Ithea surprise attacks on trucks of the International Red Cross on behalf of the Swedish Red Cross; Professor Gistadel was slightly wounded, and the driver seriously wounded."
Those are the two passages you were thinking of, General?
A Yes.
Q. And who distributed the food?
A. The Red Cross.
Q. Not the German Wehrmacht?
A. No, the International Red Cross.
Q. Well, did the International Red Cross distribute its own food, or was food given by the Germans?
A. No, the International Red Cross supplied the food itself and the so-called "Swedish ships", as they were called, brought the larger part of the grain supplies from Canada etc. In addition quite considerable contributions were made from Germany, and I remember that once in Germany and in Ruomania almost one hundred thousand tons of food was made available for Greece; however, it could not be sent to Greece for technical reasons. Thereupon I sent officials and officers to Germany, who made it possible through direct negotiations with the transport officials there for the food finally to be brought to Greece.
Q. Was this aid given by the International Red Cross made necessary only because the German occupying power took food for its own purposes from the country?
A. No, there were quite definite agreements between the International Red Cross and me. As a return service for the help given to Greece by the International Red Cross I agreed to ensure that no food should be taken from the country by the German Wehrmacht, apart from food which easily went bad, such as vegetables, fruits, and fish. But whatever was taken from the country in this respect was compensated for again. I regarded it as an essential task to survey and to control in this connection, and by ever recurring explanations to the troops I made it my duty to see that this agreement was adhered to.
Q. Was your support of the International Red Cross shown by any other measures?
A. Yes, but I don't know any details at the moment.
Q. Here your Honor, I would like to submit two more affidavits; the first is contained in Speidel Document Book No. II. This is Speidel Document No. 35, on page 66 of Document Book II. This is an affidavit by General Eisenbach, who has already been mentioned several times, dated 12 November 1947. This document becomes Exhibit No. 39. I would like to read the following from the affidavit and I quote:
"The Swedish archeologist Professor Person and his wife, who is a doctor, represented the International Red Cross on the Pelopennesus. While I was in command in Corinth I was often in contact with him, because at that time he did not yet have his own vehicles to service the peninsula. Whereever it was possible, we gave him space on the trains and the truck columns. At first the unit was hesitant about this because Person also took care of rebel territory. I was aware of this too, but I thought that on account of the poor food situation of the country it was necessary to accept this. With this recommendation I presented the matter to General SPEIDEL. He approved of my conception and directed the support of the IRC with all available means. In the end the unit also had to overcome its doubts as a result of his and my action in this matter".
The second document is contained in Document Book Speidel No. I. This is Speidel Document No. 10 and is on page 26 of Speidel Document Book No. I. I offer this document as Speidel Exhibit No. 40. This is an affidavit by Fritz Delkeskamp who was on General Speidel's staff in Greece. Perhaps I might read the last third on page 26:
"It is known that the German soldiers went hungry in Greece. In spite of that General Speidel also refused to increase requisitioning of food from the country. He always repeatedly through personal intervention supported the Red Cross and measures in favor of the indigenous population." This affidavit is duly signed and certified. General, as Military Commander, did you not improve the food situation in Greece by your own measures?
A. Well, I couldn't do very much. I could only give very slight aid as follows: For instance, I ensured that every ship which delivered cargo to the island was to be loaded as far as possible by the Navy with food for the inhabitants of the island. From Germany I obtained large quantities of seeds, manure, machines, experts etc. to intensify Greek agriculture. In order to ensure the food supply I currently gave quantities of fuel to the Greek fishing boats. Those are just a few examples.
Q. Apart from this regular support, were there special reasons which caused you to give aid?
A. Yes. When, on the 11th of January 1944 there was a very heavy air raid on the port of Piraeus with large casualties among the civilian population, I went at once to Piraeus although I felt very ill on this day personally organized aid. Troops were called in to rescue people from under the rubble, Military hospitals were made available, military doctors were made available, and finally, for three days, I fed the whole population from field kitchens from Wehrmacht stocks. This was again followed by a reprimand from above because in this way, by active on my own initiative I had endangered the readiness for action of the troops.
Q. At this point, Your Honor, I refer to the affidavit of Friedrich Herrmann, contained in Speidel Document Book No. I, Speidel Document No. II, page 29, which is Exhibit No. 41. This is an affidavit by a foundry worker Friedrich Herrmann, and its most important part is as follows: He states:
"In January 1944 the harbour of Piraeus was - as we heard - subjected to an attack from the air by the English as a result of which approximately 11000 Greeks, poor people who had been expelled from Asia Minor previously were rendered homeless. The Greek administration was not in a position to supply these poorest of the poor with the most essential provisions. In view of the emergency the German administration intervened. For this reason I received an order through my superior officer with the LXVIII Army Corps to provide for these people immediately in co-operation with the General Staff administrative Section of the Wehrmacht in Athens. The order came from the then General Speidel and as far as I know also from our former General Felmy. For the project about 50 tons of provisions were made available from army stocks to tide over the worst of the misery, and, with energetic support from the LXVIII Army Corps and the General Staff administrative section of the Wehrmacht in Athens, I prepared for days on end with nine or eleven field-kitchens respectively two warm meals daily and brought these with bread to the individual communal camps and distributed them there. I shall never forget the hungry children, the pregnant women and mothers and the old people who crowded round me and my soldiers to express their thanks. For my part in this emergency measure I received a short letter of thanks from General Speidel that I should place at your disposal."
This affidavit has been duly signed and certified. I have placed this document very gladly in the document book because this affiant is a simple man, a foundry worker, who has made it available to us voluntarily and he wrote and told me that in this way he wanted to help the Tribunal to obtain a correct picture of my client. General, every occupation power is to a certain extent compelled to rely on the work of the indigenous population, and this was also the case in Greece. Is it then correct that those workers who worked for the German occupation power were also fed by the occupation power?
A. The Greeks who worked for Germans, in Athens and Crete, there were about 100,000 men, were given special food as an inducement to work and to keep up their strength. I attered this system and fundamentally extended it so that the workers employed by the Wehrmacht received, in addition to their wages, complete Wehrmacht meals without extra pay. And in addition I ensured that the workers even received their wages and food when there was no work for them to do. In this way I thought that I could help directly, at least, a part of the population.
Q. During the examination of General Foertsch there was mention of extensive medical measures which were carried out in the whole of the Balkans and especially in Greece.
Q. Did you participate in these measures too?
A. At that time these measures were extensively discussed by General Foertsch and I need only say that I took over the re-organization and helped and carried them out to the same extent.
Q The Military Occupation of Greece brought with it of course security measures for the country, which inevitably intruded in to the private sphere of the country and its inhabitants, and it is possible perhaps also brought economic difficulties. What did you do to mitigate the distress arising from these conditions?
A The main problem at that time was the inflation which was increasing daily. In order to direct this inflation and so to support the Greek Government, I took measures with the German Wehrmacht which were considerably influenced in favor of the Greek Government. The currency needs of the German Wehrmacht that is the occupation expenses were repeatedly considerably limited by me, even the ordinary soldier felt this because his pay in Greek currency became less and less, and once even I stopped the distribution of pay altogether in favor of the Greek workers, because the drachma stock at that time was only sufficient to pay the Greek workers and not the German soldiers. That is just an example of the inflation measures which I took with regard to the billeting worries which of course are always brought to the civilian population by every occupation. I always limited our needs in this direction as far as possible, partly by direct intervention.
One of the measures I took was during the building-up of the coastal defenses. I prevented whole blocks of houses from being torn down as the experts wanted and by my immediate intervention the houses remained standing and the prospect of the people was preserved. That is just an example.
Q General, as supreme judicial authority in face of certain offenses against the occupation powers had to exercise jurisdiction over the Greek population. Is it correct that from time to time you ordered a large number of people to be released from the prisons?
A From the war diary, I see that at Christmas of 1943 approximately 500 prisoners were released, some of them even had up to ten years sentences to serve; and furthermore on the Greek National day about half of the people were released from prison.
Then I also note from the books that from those Greeks who were still in Italian prisons, then over 2000 were released by me, after their cases had been examined.
Q Your honor in order to provide evidence for the correctness of my client's statements, I would like to refer to the war diary which came from the Washington documents. The first covers the period until November 1943. This has already been offered as Exhibit 23. The second covers the period from 21 November 1943 onwards and this is contained in Speidel document book 3 as Speidel document No. 42. I offer this as Speidel exhibit No. 42. With regard to two excerpts and I am referring to the entries of 23 September and 24 December, 1943 and 26 March, 1944.
Further, I would like to submit here the affidavit by Paster Liebl as contained in Speidel document book No. 2 document No. 30, page 56 of Speidel document book No. 2. This document receives exhibit No. 43 IV is a statement by Paster Richard Liebl, who was superior of the Capuching mission in Greece and he confirms that at that time he was with General Speidel and that he always found understanding of the matter submitted to him. Then the affiant continues he would like particularly to stress that General Speidel had the case against Bishop Msgr. Greger Vuccine, who was arrested by the Wehrmacht for alleged military offenses dismissed at the request of Mgr. Testa and himself. The affidavit was given on 25 October 1947 in Athens.
Now, General, I have one final question with regard to this subject. We have now discussed quite briefly the activities which you did for the benefit of the Greek population while you were in Greece, the activities which you thought were your duty, do you think that this was a contribution towards the internal pacification of the Greek population?
A I think so, even if these measures were only a very small part when I think of all other things I wish to do then these measures certainly facilitated the material soundness of the population, and they certainly had a psychological effect. I was doing my best to be kind of a mediator between the Greek and the German interests.
Even if in this way sometimes of course I acted in opposition to military demands. They show secondly, in my opinion, that in this way I contributed towards avoiding the return of a famine. Finally I would like to assume that such measures were not exactly in line with the methods and expression of an extermination policy, to return to the term used at the beginning of your questions.
Q Your honor to conclude this chapter, I would like to submit a few affidavits. The first is contained in Speidel document book 1. This is Speidel document No. 7 on page 17 of document book 1. This affidavit becomes exhibit No. 44, Speidel exhibit No. 44. The affiant is a professor of theology, Peter Mein hold, who from April 1941 until October 1944 was a Protestant Naval Chaplain in Greece, particularly in the Athens area. In the last paragraph on page 17 the affiant states:
"Herr Speidel has, in his area, furthered the work of the clergymen of both denomination, repeatedly attended himself the Protestant services and celebrations and attached great importance to influencing the troops in the spirit of Christianity."
And I would like to point out also the next sentence on page 18:
"In practical respect the attitude of Herr Speidel had its effect especially by allowing an unhampered activity of the clergymen in the hospitals, where since 1942 it had been made more and more difficult by general orders from the Highest authority. In public celebrations, e.g., on the occasion of the Heroes Memorial Day, only the Protestant and the Catholic clerics made the addresses, likewise on the occasion of funeral celebrations to which the commander attended. In doing this, he professed his open allegiance to Christianity, and the greatest possible repudiation of, even a challenge to the propaganda of the National-Socialist ideology which came to the fore especially on occasions like these."
And then I would like to refer briefly once again to this affidavit, especially to the last sentence on page 18:
"Repeatedly the then Greek Minister Lovaris mentioned the assistance he had received from Herr Speidel, and or his staff in carrying out the measures taken by him on behalf of the well being of the Greek people."
I would ask that judicial notice be taken of the parts of the affidavit which I have not read.
The next affidavit is on page 23 of the same document book, document book No. 1, Speidel document No. 9. It is by the same General Erich Eisenbach, who has been mentioned before. I offer this affidavit as Speidel exhibit 45. I would ask that judicial notice be taken of the contents of this affidavit and I refer especially to the first paragraph in which it is stated:
"Towards the Greek civil population he showed benevolence and a readiness to be of help wherever possible. For instance at a conference in Corinth, General Speidel ordered me to support by all means the extremely difficult supply of the country."
The next paragraph states briefly:
"In Athens General Speidel ordered me to re-examine military quarters in order to recover as much living space as possible for the population."
This affidavit has been duly signed and certified.
In this connection I would also like to refer to the affidavit of Monsignore Jacquest Testa, as contained in document book Speidel No. 2 page 78. I offer this affidavit as Speidel Exhibit No. 46. It is given by Monsignore Jacquest Testa, Chief of the Apostolic Delegation in Athens and contains the following:
"I the undersigned, Monsignore Jacques TESTA, Chief of the Apostolic Delegation in Greece declare that, whenever I had to negotiate with General W. Seidel, former commander of the German forces in Greece, in order to request his support for my work of helping the local population, I have always found full understanding and eagerness.
In the last document here I would like to refer to a certain paragraph in an affidavit given by Dr. Graevonitz on page 58 of Speidel Document Book No. II. I already offered this affidavit this morning as Exhibit No. 33. I would like to refer here particularly to the second paragraph on page 58 and the third and fourth paragraphs on page 59. I do not want to read them but I would like judicial notice to be taken to them.
General, I think that in order to make a clear presentation of your attitude towards the Greek problem, you should refer quite briefly to the motives for your basic attitude with regard to your tasks in Greece. From your description of the assistance for the Greek population, whether it was through the International Red Cross or whether it was direct, and from your answers to my questions I take it that you did not limit yourself to fulfilling your purely military duties but you tried in addition to help the Greek population and this repeatedly in opposition to the ideas of the tactical leadership. This is a certain contradiction which I would like you to clear up.
A. It is a matter of course that the tactical leadership makes it factual justified and necessary rights because, after all, that is its job to wage war; but my task, as I saw it, was as I have already stated to play a sort of intermediate role between the military necessities on the one hand and the needs of the decent population of Greece on the other hand.
Q. What were the most important reasons for this attitude?
A. My attitude towards my task can perhaps only be understood at all from the intellectual background which determined my personal attitude towards Greece. Through my education and my training, and through the experience which I had gained through life, I became more and more a conscious humanist, a humanist in the sense as Goethe expressed it, and at the same time I was pro-Greek in the sense of the German classics and in the sense of Lord Byron.
Spirit, culture, art, history, philosophy and religion of the ancient Greeks filled my life much more strongly than as if I had only obtained the knowledge from books.