DR. GRUBE: Document 310, Your Honor, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: What exhibit number is your next one?
DR. GRUBE: I am offering this document as Exhibit 264.
THE PRESIDENT: It is received.
DR. GRUBE: And the last document I am offering is the affidavit Loeser, which bears my Document No. 311 and is contained in my Document Book No. VIII. I am offering it as Exhibit 265.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. We have not found your Document Book VIII.
Had that book been previously presented? Or is it a new book?
DR. GRUBE: It is already translated. I already received the English copy of it.
THE PRESIDENT: Have we previously received your Document Book VIII, or is it new, today? - the book?
DR. GRUBE: That is quite new. That only contains that one exhibit. Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: We don't find it.
THE SECRETARY GENERAL: We have not yet received it.
DR. GRUBE: Mr. President, may I be permitted -- I have a few English copies myself. May I be permitted to get these copies and submit them?
THE PRESIDENT: Does that conclude your offer of exhibits?
DR. GRUBE: Yes, Your Honor, that concludes it.
THE PRESIDENT: Give us the document number and the exhibit number, then.
DR. GRUBE: The document has my number 311, and it should receive the Exhibit number 265.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
MR. KING: We should like to point out to the Court that this document is dated, certified, the 3rd of October, which is well beyond the deadline set by the Court.
DR. GRUBE: Mr. President, on account of the general difficulties, ***t that witnesses could be reached only on the very last days - and as soon as I found out his address I immediately had the affidavit made out by him.
THE PRESIDENT: Whet is the name of the witness?
DR. GRUBE: Loeser. L-o-e-s-e-r.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the affidavit concerned with?
DR. GRUBE: The affidavit confirms that Lautz, in a case where a defendant by the name of Loeser -- in connection with the event of the 20th of July 1944 had been arrested by the Gestapo, intervened to the effect that his wife could get in touch with him. Frau Looser confirms here that it was upon Lautz's intervention that Loeser was not executed.
THE PRESIDENT: The offer of this exhibit is rejected.
MR. KING: I would like to call one thing to the Court's and Dr. Grube's attention. In Lautz Exhibit 199, which is Document 299, the original was never submitted. We have checked that in trying to determine who signed the original. It merely states "signature", and no indication of whose signature it is. I think it is incumbent upon Dr. Grube to tell us, if he knows, whose signature should have been on the original, and that he will produce the original, which he did not. I wonder if he could tell us at this time?
THE PRESIDENT: You are referring to Exhibit 199?
MR. KING: Yes, Lautz Exhibit 199, Document 299.
Excuse me -- it is Document 292: and that was in Lautz Document Book IV-B.
THE PRESIDENT: You say the original has never been offered?
MR. KING: The original has never been offered, Your Honor. What was offered was a copy of the original, and the signature which was supposed to be on it does not appear on the copy which was offered to the Secretary General.
THE PRESIDENT: You are entitled to know.
MR. KING: Well, that is our position. Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: You are entitled to know the answer.
DR. GRUBE: Mr. President: That document was taken from files which the Prosecution put at my disposal here. I still have these files. I ask to be permitted that I get the files into the courtroom to find out whose signature is on that document.
THE PRESIDENT: You may do so!
The next defendant... by his counsel?
DR. KARL HAEMSEL (for defendant Guenther Joel): I ask to be permitted to offer two documents... my documents numbers 99 and 100 - which would make my documents 100 in number, then. But this is not the cause. I am only offering these documents now because I received them now.
I offer as Exhibit 97 from Document Book No. VI, my Document No. 99. It is an affidavit by Hoeller. It was written after a rebuttal document concerning the file Schaps was offered.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit is received.
DR. HAEMSEL: As my last document I offer Exhibit 98, my Document 100, from Document Book VI -- an affidavit by Eva von Schroeder dated the 23rd of September 1947, which I have only received after the 28th.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit is received.
DR. KOESSL (for the defendant Rothaug): With the permission of the Tribunal -
THE PRESIDENT: We don't have that document book yet.
DR. KOESSL: It is in Document Book XII and XIII, containing one document each, and I have received the translations.
Court No. III, Case No. III.
THE PRESIDENT: We have received an instrument marked Document No. 12, but it does not indicate what the defendant was relating to. Is this the Rothaug Document Book?
DR. KOESSL: That is the Rothaug Document No. 236, on the first page. It is expressed on the document, it is above the text. It is an affidavit by Martin Denzler, of the 26 September 1947.
THE PRESIDENT: What exhibit number should it receive?
DR. KOESSL: I am offering this document as Exhibit No. 224. It is offered to prove that the report of 18 February 1942 contained in Exhibit No. 561 of the Prosecution came about in the manner in which Rothaug described it, that he could not base himself on the description of facts as they are assumed in his testimony.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit is received.
DR. KOESSL: Document No. 237 is offered as Exhibit No. 225.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. We have not it as yet.
DR. KOESSL: It is Rothaug's Document Book XIII. This is the only document in the book.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary-General has not received your Book XIII.
DR. KOESSL: I have received a copy from the Defense Center, and I shall look immediately for the English copies if I am permitted to do so.
THE PRESIDENT: We will reserve Exhibit No. 225 until you have investigated the matter.
DR. KOESSL: Thank you, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The next?
DR. TIPP: Dr. Tipp for Dr. Barnickel. Mr. President, I want to offer the Supplement volume to the Document Book of the defendant Barnickel.
THE PRESIDENT: We have not as yet received it on the Bench of the defendant Barnickel. What was the number of your last document book? Do you recall?
BR. TIPP: The last exhibit I offered was from document book No. II, Barnickel's Exhibit No. 42, your Honor. I would like to continue with Barnickel's Document No. 45 which is an affidavit of Professor Dr. Emil Niethammer.
THE PRESIDENT: Your Next exhibit would be Exhibit No. 43?
DR. TIPP: Exhibit No. 43. Yes, Your Honor. It is Barnickel's Document No. 45.
THE PRESIDENT: You misunderstand my question Dr. Tipp. Was Book No. 2 the last book?
DR. TIPP: Yes, Your Honor, Book No. 2, I submitted only two Document Books and this is the supplemental volume. I am offering Barnickel's Document No. 45. Affidavit of Professor Niethammer.
THE PRESIDENT: Did you mark this in the numbered book which you offered as supplement to Document Book No. 3, Exhibit No. 43, being document No. 45, which is received.
DR. TIPP: The next is Barnickel's Document No. 46, offered as Exhibit No. 44, an affidavit by Arthur Jander, which also discusses the position of a chief Reich Prosecutor. The next is document of the defendant Barnickel No. 47. I am offering it as Exhibit No. 45, an affidavit by the Ministerpresident of Bavaria, Dr. Hans Ehard, 26 August 1947.
THE PRESIDENT: Received.
DR. TIPP: The next one I am offering is Barnickel document No. 48, an affidavit by the President of the District Court of Appeal, Dr. Walther Stepp, Moosburg, dated 13 September 1947, which refers to a document submitted to Dr. Barnickel during cross examination.
THE PRESIDENT: Exhibit No. 46 received.
DR. TIPP: The affidavit is signed by Dr. Walther Stepp showing that until 1945 he was President of the District Court of Appeals in Munich.
MR. KING: I want Dr. Tipp to explain to us who Dr. Hermann Mueller is who has apparently certified that affidavit.
DR. TIPP: Dr. Hermann Mueller is assistant of one of the defense counsel in another defendant's case. He had been out in the Moosburg Civilian Internment Camp on 13 September for the purpose of conducting an investigation, since I could not get to Moosburg myself, so I asked him to get the affidavit signed, and certify to the signature on there.
THE PRESIDENT: Your next.
DR. TIPP: The last document, Mr. President, is Barnickel's No. 49, which I am offered as Barnickel's Exhibit No. 47, an affidavit by the former President of the Local Court of Munich, Dr. Gustav Lichtenberger, dated 16 September 1947.
THE PRESIDENT: It may be received.
DR. TIPP: That concludes the presentation of evedence for Dr. Barnickel.
DR. GRUBE: Mr. President, the document which was objected to before, my Exhibit 191 is before me in the original. I have discussed it with a representative of the Prosecution, who expressed himself that that document is all right.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Mr. President, for the defendant Schlegelberger. I ask to be permitted to offer documents from the supplement volumes 3 and 4.
THE PRESIDENT : What supplements is that?
DR. KUBUSCHOK : Three and four, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Are those new books, new volumes?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Yes, Your Honor. They have been translated into English.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment, we have only supplement No. either 2 or 11.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Do you only have No. 2, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Supplement 2. Are the exhibits which you are offering in Supplement 2?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: I can refer to Supplement Book 2, as during the session of 25 September 1947, I offered these documents for identification. Now I should like to offer them in evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Is the transcription working?
MR. UIBERALL: Yes, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Kubuschok, I am afraid I don't quite understand your purpose. We have Supplement No. 2 to the document book. Does this contain new exhibits, which you are offering, or are you offering some old exhibits which had been marked for identifications out not received?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: The documents which are contained in the supplement book No. 2 have already been marked for identification, and I now am offering them altogether in evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Can you tell us what exhibit numbers were given to these documents when they were marded for identification?
BR. KUBUSCHOK: 131 to 157, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: 131 -
DR. KUBUSCHOK: 131 to 157, inclusive.
THE PRESIDENT: Now your Document 141 would be Exhibit 131, is that right?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: I offered 135 as the first one, that would be Exhibit 131, Document No. 135.
THE PRESIDENT: What about Documents 132, 135 and 134?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: I beg your pardon, Your Honor, No. 132 I had offered as Exhibit No. 129. Document 133 I had offered as Exhibit No. 130.
THE PRESIDENT: Secretary-General confirms that your document 135 was marked for identification Exhibit 131, as you correctly stated. Then the other documents take exhibit numbers consecutively from 131 on throughout the book?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Yes, Your Honor. Mr President, there is, however, one difficulty. The documents number 138 and 139 I had left out of the record, consequently after document 137, which was offered as Exhibit 133, there follows the Document 140 as Exhibit No. 134. Otherwise, at any rate Document 163, the last one, is Exhibit No. 157, Your Honor, I offer that as Exhibit No. 157.
THE PRESIDENT: Document No. 157 is offered as Exhibit number - -
DR. KUBUSCHOK: 151, Your Honor. The document numbers go all the way up to 163. That is on the page with Roman numeral IV, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Document No. 163, I take it would be Exhibit No. 157?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Yes, indeed, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Is that the last exhibit?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Now, turning to documents which I really indicated as submitting today, and which are contained in supplement volumes 3 and 4 for Schlegelberger.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a moment. You said you had omitted your documents Nos. 138 and 139 on the first page of your index. Those exhibits are not offered?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: No, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. Now, we have not your new supplement books as yet.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: How do you want, me to proceed now, Mr. President? They have been translated for a considerable time, already.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you sure you have not them, Mr. Secretary?
THE SECRETARY GENERAL: No, I have not them as yet. I think they will be down this morning.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Well.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary assumes they will be down this morning. Will you postpone offering them until they reach the Bench.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: May I now--Excuse me, I have one more document here, which is contained in Document Book No. II. It is document No. 142, which was marked Exhibit No. 136. At the time I had withdrawn it, because I thought there was an error in the document. This was not the case, therefore, I should like to submit this document to the Secretary-General who had not received the original.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: May I now deal with the defendant von Ammon.
THE PRESIDENT: 136. Schlegelberger's Exhibit No 136 is received, being Document 142. That was in document book 2, was it?
DR KUBUSCHOK: Yes, Document Book 2, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: In von Ammon's case?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Yes, that is von Ammon's, yes, sir. Are all the supplements Nos, 2 and 3 before you?
THE PRESIDENT: We have supplements one and two.
DR KUBUSCHOK: In Document Book No. 2, exhibits Nos. 7,8 and 9, are contained - - - I beg your pardon, supplement volume No. 1 - - supplement volume No. 1 contained Document 7 to 9. These documents are offered with the same exhibit numbers.
They have already been identified with these exhibit numbers, and I ask the exhibits be received in evidence now.
THE PRESIDENT: They are received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: From supplement book No. 2 I am offering Document No. 11 as Exhibit No. 11, and document No. 10 as Exhibit No. 10.
THE PRESIDENT: They are received. That is supplement von Ammon No. 2, they are all received.
MR. LAFOLLETTE: Both of these last affidavits are dated 2 October. They may be the same and repetitious, and might not have to do with an entirely different phase.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Both of the affiants had already been attested to by my assistant previously. Considering the entire state of affairs of the case, it was, however, necessary to make some supplements, therefore, my assistant reached both of them late, and was only in a position to get these affidavits on 2 October.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we realize the difficulty that has been involved in getting this in at the last moment. I think we will receive them in evidence.
DR. BRIEGER: (for the defendant Cuhorst): May it please the Tribunal I would like to be permitted to submit to the Tribunal only four more documents the exhibit of which in each case have already been marked for identification. They are, first of all, Cuhorst Exhibit No. 12, Document No. 129 which, as well as the three following documents belong to the Supplement Book for Cuhorst. It is on page 1. It is an excerpt from the French newspaper.
THE PRESIDENT: We can read what you have in your index as well as you. It is in English. In the last days we are giving you considerable leeway in introducing documents that are too late, So, let's cooperate a little.
DR. BRIEGER: May I make only one remark which I am sure the court will consider important. The Prosecution objected recently in connection with these documents that the original French text was not submitted. Therefore, I have added that.
The next number, Exhibit 128, Document No. 130; then Exhibit 130, Document No. 132. Finally Exhibit 129, Document 131. This concludes my submission of evidence.
THE PRESIDENT: Exhibits 127 to 131 are all received.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: (for the defendant Dr. Rothenberger):
I have only two more documents to submit for the defendant Rothenberger. First, there is the affidavit by the Justice Inspector Thaden whose affidavit has already been marked for identification as Exhibit 78A. I only had to submit the German and English copies to the General Secretary which I am doing now. It is the affidavit which proves that the general files which I had submitted from the Hanseatic Court of Appeals, referred to the law of protecting custody and the material on that subject had been collected by Rothenberger.
THE PRESIDENT: Just a minute. You say 78A. What is that Exhibit number?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: That was the Exhibit No. Rothenberger 78A.
THE PRESIDENT: Document No. what?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: The document number? That was Rothenberger 78A.
THE PRESIDENT: In what book?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: In Supplement Document Book III for Rothenberger.
THE PRESIDENT: It isn't in your Supplement Document Book III. Supplement Book III contains two documents, NI 04 and N105.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Then it must be two. I am sorry I haven't got it here. It is the collected volume of the Hanseatic Court of Appeals, all the material about protective custody to be found.
THE PRESIDENT: Is it a book you offered before?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: It has already been offered a long time ago and it was already received as an exhibit by the court.
THE PRESIDENT: All right.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: The next document is an affidavit by Ministerial Dirigen Marx of the 19th of September for that the Exhibit Rothenberger No. 86 has been reserved. It is in the supplement volume Rothenberger No. 3. It was reserved according to the classification of the 26 of September, the Tribunal for the affidavit Marx had reserved the Exhibit No. 86.
THE PRESIDENT: But it is not in your Supplement Book III and I should like to know in what book it is.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: It is a loose document. Therefore, I ask that it be added to supplement Document Book 3, that it be put in that book; then there was another Exhibit Number, 87 reserved for the affidavit by the district director Dr. Harmsen of Hamburg, I received that affidavit for various reasons and difficulties only on Saturday. It is in the process of being certified now and I ask for permission to submit it as soon as I receive it. Then the third and last document I am offering, an affidavit by the official of the administration of Hamburg Knoefel of the 9th of October 1947; that statement which I have mentioned on the 26th of September has also been received after the last party for the same reasons Dr. Kubuschok has given.
I had been in touch with him before but on account of distances it was not possible for me to receive the affidavit sooner. I ask for permission to offer that affidavit as Exhibit No. 88.
THE PRESIDENT: That has been previously identified?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: No, it had not been submitted for identification.
THE PRESIDENT: Where is it now?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Now I ask that it be given Exhibit No. 88.
THE PRESIDENT: Where are the English copies of Exhibit 88 to be found?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: I have them here, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Proceed.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Thank you, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: What about your Supplement Book III which is before us containing N 104 and N 105.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Your Honor, I don't remember what numbers they are. Maybe I could look at them.
THE PRESIDENT: A criticism of verdicts.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: I'll get the Supplement volumes immediately and explain to the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marx affidavit is marked Exhibit 86. Is that right?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Yes, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Next.
DR. ASCHENAUER (for defendant Petersen): I ask to be permitted to submit two documents which were incomplete when I submitted my document book. It is from Document Book Petersen No. 1, Document No. 29. I am offering it as Exhibit No. 32. I had that exhibit number reserved for identification previously.
THE PRESIDENT: It is received, Exhibit 32 Pertesen. What book was that in?
DR. ASCHENAUER: Document Book Petersen No. 1, Your Honor. From Document Book Petersen No. III I am offering the document Petersen No. 131 as Exhibit 138, Document 131.
THE PRESIDENT: Has that been marked for identification before?
DR. ASCHENAUER: No, your Honer, it has not.
THE PRESIDENT: Where is it? Where are the English copies?
DR. ASCHENAUER: The English copy most be in the Document Book Petersen III. These are not new documents but the translations are already before the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: All right. You may proceed.
DR. ASCHENAUER: That concludes the submission of evidence for Petersen.
MR. LAFOLLETTE: Your Honors will recall that I objected on the ground of probative value for the Peterson document. I don't know if at that time the court reserved a ruling. I would like to know at this time if the court had made a ruling.
THE PRESIDENT: We don't recollect at the moment what documents you objected to but we assure you that in the decision of the case we will not give any weight to any document which has no probative value.
MR. LAFOLLETTE: At this time I will withdraw the objection, your honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will take a 15 minute recess.
(A recess was taken)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. ORTH: Dr. Orth for the Defendant Altstoetter. Your Honor, on the 25 of September in the morning session, Altstoetter Document Book IV was offered by me as Altstoetter Exhibit No. 4. I introduced the whole book under that number for purposes of identification only. I now offer Document Book IV which contains Documents 86 to 99, as Altstoetter Exhibit 4 and I will ask you now to accept it finally.
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit is received.
DR. ORTH: I have now concluded the presentation of evidence for Altstoetter.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: If Schlegelberger Supplement No. 3 has not yet been received by the Tribunal in English I can now hand to the Tribunal the copies which I have with me. The first Document 164 I offer as Exhibit 158.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the exhibit number, please?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: 158
THE PRESIDENT: The exhibit is received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document 165 I offer as Exhibit 159.
THE PRESIDENT: Received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document 166 I offer as Exhibit 160.
THE PRESIDENT: Received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document 167 I offer as Exhibit 161.
THE PRESIDENT: Received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document 168 I offer as Exhibit 162.
THE PRESIDENT: Received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document 169 I offer as Exhibit 163.
THE PRESIDENT: It is received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: The Supplement Volume Schlegelberger No. 4 consists of one document only. It is No. 170. This is the text of a law of the 11th Order concerning the Reich Citizenship law. The Prosecution introduced it only in part and I ant to offer it in full. I do not have the translation with me and I don't know whether the Tribunal has a translation.
It is only one document.
THE PRESIDENT: It has been translated?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: It submitted it sometime ago and I cannot tell you for certain whether it was reached the center yet.
THE PRESIDENT: Will you describe it once more then, the document number and so on?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: Document Schlegelberger No. 170. It is offered as Exhibit 164. It contains the text of the 11th Order concerning the Reich Citizenship Law.
THE PRESIDENT: What document book is that in?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: It should be Schlegelberger Supplement Volume IV. And, as I said, the supplement volume has only this one document.
THE PRESIDENT: The number will be reserved for it. When you present it in proper form it may be received.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: And finally I have an affidavit by Dr. Lammers. It was deposed on Saturday and this affidavit was taken at such a late date because during rebuttal reference was made to a discussion by the undersecretaries concerning the evacuation of Jews.
I have made an attempt to obtain an affidavit from the former Ministerial Dirigent Gritzinger who is interned here. Gritzinger has died in the meantime and, therefore, I had to obtain an affidavit from another person and I got such an affidavit. I have had the translations made and I am now handing these to the Tribunal.
MR. KING: The Prosecution objects to this, your Honor, not only from the point of view of date but from the fact that Lammers himself took the stand. The subject matte was brought to his attention and discussed and he was cross examined on it. I don't think there is any reason at this time for even considering the accepting of an affidavit from Lammers.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: I should like to point out that when Lammers was examined this discussion held on the 20 of January 1942 among the under-secretaries had not yet been mentioned at all. It was only during the last few days of rebuttal when the witness Waiter was examined that that question arose at all.
Concerning the term "discussion of under-secretaries," I now want to submit an affidavit by Gritzinger, and in the case of Gritzinger I was always told from one day to another that I might be able to contact him.
THE PRESIDENT: We are not concerned with the explanation of why you can't have the affidavit of a man who is now dead. The question is whether we should receive this affidavit.
DR. KUBUSCHOK: When I heard that Gritzinger had died I immediately obtained an affidavit form Lammers. He was Gritzinger's chief.
THE PRESIDENT: I think the question must be this: whether the subject matter which is covered in this affidavit was also covered in the examination or cross examination of Lammers when he was on the witness stand. If it was not, and if a new matter came up in rebuttal, then the affidavit would be properly received. If the same subject matter was covered in the examination of Lammers as a witness then we will reject the affidavit.
Now, the decision on that matter can only be made by a comparison of the affidavit with his former testimony. You can register your objection and we will examine the testimony and the affidavit and rule accordingly.
MR. LAFOLLETTE: That statement of the Court is completely satisfactory to the Prosecution.
THE PRESIDENT: What exhibit number do you want for it, 165?
DR. KUBUSCHOK: The Document number is 171 and the Exhibit number is 165. I have finished, your Honor.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: I should like to give an explanation to the Tribunal concerning the question that remained unsettled this morning. Supplement Volume III contains extracts from the general files of the District Court of Appeal. That volume from the District Court of Appeal had been received for purposes of identification. The exhibit number 78 was reserved for it.
To confirm the point that these are files from the District Court of Appeal concerning documents about protective custody, I had offered the von Thaden affidavit for which I asked for the Exhibit No. 78-a to be reserved. I have handed the translations to the SecretaryGeneral. The affidavit is by von Thaden.
In Supplement Volume III the next document number is 105 and the exhibit number is 79. That had been settled.
The further documents which I introduced today belong in this Supplement Volume III. They are an affidavit by Marx, Document Rothenberger No. 106. The Exhibit number is 86 and the Tribunal knows about that.
THE PRESIDENT: Exhibit No. 78 was reserved.
DR. WANDNHUERDER: 78 was reserved for Rothenberger Document 104.
THE PRESIDENT: That is received. 78-a-
DR. WANDNHUERDER: That was 78.
THE PRESIDENT: Now 78-a. That was received also.
DR. WANDNHUERDER: That was reserved for an affidavit by von Thaden. He is an official of the Hamburg Administration of Justice.
THE PRESIDENT: Where is that affidavit?
DR. WANDNHUERDER: That is also contained in Supplement Book III. It follows after Exhibit 78 and this is Exhibit 78-a. I submitted that at an earlier time, this statement by von Thaden, and in the English translation it was submitted today.
THE PRESIDENT: What page of your Document Book does that affidavit begin?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: The affidavit, your Honor, is just an affidavit all by itself. It is a loose affidavit. It is not yet contained in a Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: Now, Exhibit 79 -
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Exhibit 79 -
THE PRESIDENT: -- is 105?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: 105, yes.
THE PRESIDENT: In Supplement Book III?
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: Yes, III. The next document is the Marx affidavit which I mentioned before and it had already been accepted for purposes of identification. The exhibit number is 86.
THE PRESIDENT: 86.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: In Supplement Volume III. The next document is the affidavit by Harmsen Rothenberger Document 107.
THE PRESIDENT: Are we supposed to have that here? I don't find it.
DR. WANDSCHNEIDER: No, your Honor, you haven't had it yet. It is still with the Translation Department and I shall be able to introduce it after lunch. The exhibit number is 87. It has already been received for purposes of identification only.
The next document is the Knoefel affidavit. This morning it was received, the exhibit number being 83. It is also contained in Volume III. That finishes my Supplement Volume III and all I shall have to do this afternoon is to hand, after lunch, the Harmsen affidavit to the Tribunal.
Now I have to say something about Supplement Volume II. The exhibit numbers 80 through 85 in that volume were received only for identification for the simple reason that at that time the translations were not yet available.