A. Your Honor, the camp was not founded in 1942; as far as I can remember, it only came at the end of 1943 or early in 1944. I cannot give you the exact figure of the arrivals. I think it must have been at the 1203-A end of 1943 or the beginning of 1944.
Q. And in all that time there was not one single death in the entire camp?
A. Your Honor, I had not heard of one single case of death. Should one case of death have occurred, it is possible that the SS in Oranienburg would have been told. We ourselves had not heard of one case of death in that camp.
Q. Do you mean this camp was functioning as a health resort?
A. I cannot say that your Honor, but after the end of the war I heard that the camp was removed. And I heard that the people did not like to go away. Before the end of the war, the people lived there and they were given food just as much as was corresponding to their performance and they were merely able to work there.
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honors, I myself have no further questions to the witness. I should like to say one thing, and that is that not every plant or concentration camp tortured its laborers. One hears now of certain camps, but it was not everywhere the same way and as long as there was responsible supervision, conditions in the camp were quite human. As you heard yourself just now. The term "concentration camp" is not always synonymous with murder.
I have no further questions to the witness. No further questions, Your Honor.
JUDGE MUSSMANNO The witness is excused.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Court, may we now have a recess until tomorrow morning? I have nothing to submit to the Court at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: Very well, we will recess until tomorrow morning at 9:30.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 18 February 1947, at 0930 hours.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the natter of the United States of America against Erhard Milch, defendant, sitting at Nuernberg, Germany, on 18 February 1947, 0980, Judge Toms presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 2. Military Tribunal 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the court.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Court, may I call the witness Colonel Pendele?
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will bring the witness Pendele to the courtroom.
MAX PENDELE, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE MUSMANNO: Witness, you will raise your right hand and repeat after me:
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE MUSMANNO: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q. Witness, will you please sneak slowly and will you also pause after each of my questions so that the translators can finish translating my question. Witness, will you please give the Court your first name and second name?
A. Pendele, Max.
Q. When were you born?
A. 25 April 1891.
Q. What was your rank and position in the Wehrmacht?
A. Colonel of the Luftwaffe, Adjutant to the GL.
Q. Do you know Herr Milch?
A. Yes.
Q. If you see him in the courtroom, please point to him with your hand.
(The witness complied.)
DR. BERGOLD: Will you please state in the record that the witness has recognized the defendant.
THE PRESIDENT: The record will so show.
BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q. Witness, since when were you adjutant to the GL?
A. Since 1937.
Q. Were you with Milch since that time or were you at first with his predecessor?
A. With his predecessor, Colonel-General Udet.
Q. After his resignation you had some official contacts with Milch?
A. Yes.
Q. When was that?
A. After Udet's death, in the autumn of 1941.
Q. Can you give me that date a little more precisely?
A. Udet died on 17 November 1941 and after that time I was with Milch.
Q. From when onwards was Milch connected with armament in the war?
A. The tasks of the GL were given to Milch after Udet's death.
Q. When did Milch resign as GL from his armament task?
A. Virtually by the middle of 1944, when the new office of Chief of Technical Air Armament was created.
Q. What did Milch have to do with the Four Year Plan, as far as you can judge?
A. Milch had no position in the Four Year Plan.
Q. As GL, or otherwise, were Sauckel and his various labor exchanges under Milch?
A. No.
Q. As GL, did Milch have anything to do with the recruiting of foreign labor, their transport, or their feeding?
A. No, The recruiting and the looking after of foreign workers was exclusively the task of the plenipotentiary for Labor; that is to say, Sauckel.
Q. Was Milch in a position to give orders to the military commanders in the occupied territories or civilian authorities there?
A. No.
Q. Witness, did you yourself have anything to do with the Central Planning Board?
A. No.
Q. Did you have to take part in conferences of the Central Planning Board as Milch's adjutant?
A. In the first meeting of the Central Planning Board Field Marshall Milch was accompanied by his first adjutant, Polke. It is possible that later on I took part temporarily in one or two meeting.
Q. What do you call "temporarily"?
A. As adjutant, it was my task to accompany the Field Marshal. I was called out to take telephone calls during meetings; to deal with visitors. I had no responsibility in the meetings proper. My presence at meetings was purely temporary in that sense.
Q. Witness, what was the labor position in the air armament industry? Was there enough labor or insufficient labor?
A. Labor was insufficient.
Q. Do you know whether Sauckel's promises and Sauckel's statements - according to which he had supplied a certain number of millions of workers - were those statements correct or not?
A. They were usually not correct. I can remember very well when Sauckel gave his famous, "I report, my Fuehrer, that I have supplied three or four million workers to the armament industry." Actually, only a fraction of that figure turned up in reality.
Q. The term "fraction" is a bit vague. Can you give me an approximate figure?
A. When the statement of three million was made, air armament only had about 280,000 workers.
Q. Witness, do you know that there were foreign workers in air armament?
A. Yes.
Q. What were your own observations on that point, as to how these foreign workers were treated?
A. I never accompanied the Field Marshal during his inspection tours to armament factories. As far as my own observations, however, in my private life I lived in Berlin, Lichterfelde West, near the big Telefunken factory. There I could observe that foreign workers employed there, mainly Frenchmen, were completely free and left at large; that in the big camp near Goerz, where Russian women workers were employed, they went in close parties on Sundays, singing.
Q. Did you observe whether they were well dressed and looked well fed?
A. They looked very well fed and very decently dressed.
Q. Witness, did Milch, in his capacity, have any power to punish workers in the air armament industry, Germans or foreigners?
A. Never over workers.
Q. Did he have such power over prisoners of war?
A. He did not have that either.
Q Did it ever become known to you whether he had foreign workers or prisoners shot or hanged?
A Ho nay have expressed his indignation, perhaps, he may have said these people must be hanged, but the powers for that, to carry this out, the Field Marshal didn't have at all.
Q You called it expression of indignation, was it well known in this circle that Milch frequently used strong language without their taking it seriously?
A Oh, yes, that was known to us.
Q These expressions of indignation, did they go beyond his immediate circle?
A No.
Q And you in your own circle didn't take these expressions seriously.
A No, it was known that the Field Marshal was fond of using strong language. He was apt to blow up, but we never took that seriously.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Bergold, excuse me, please. We have had a great deal of testimony on this subject, and you have asked on several occasions this same question, namely, did these remarks of indignation or threats on the part of the defendant go beyond his own circle, and the answer invariably was "no." Now, I assume you mean by that that the circle included his coworkers , his collaborators?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: But in the record there are references to declarations on the part of the defendant in the way of threats to people not within his own circle, that is, the workers themselves, these foreign workers, people brought in from other countries. Now you did not regard them within the circle, did you?
DR. BERGOLD: No. I will only prove that these expressions of indignation only occurred during those meetings, and that they did not go beyond this immediate circle of his co-workers, that in particular they did not even reach the foreign workers concerned.
BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q. Witness, you have heard what has boon stated in the record. Did they reach the circle of foreign workers?
A. No, never was there any possibility for those statements to roach the ears of foreign workers. The record and minutes of these meetings were never distributed, and otherwise what was said in those meetings always remained within the circle of those taking part.
Q. Did Milch ever issue an order to that effect, to beat or to shoot foreign workers?
A. No, to whom could he issue such orders. Ho had no powers of command on the management about those workers.
Q. If I understand you correctly, these were purely, if I may put it a little bluntly, these were purely platonic expressions?
A. Yes, quite.
Q. Witness, is it not true that Milch, if he gave orders for foreign workers to work, particularly if he did not also issue orders as to the care of foreign workers, did he not issue such orders?
A. Yes, he did, I think particularly on the taking care of workers, or special allocations of smoking goods, smokes and tobacco. There was a special department, even within the staff, and later on within the armament staff, which was concerned exclusively with the looking after of these workers. It was in our interest after all, to increase the production efficiency of those people in order to obtain the best possible results.
Q. Witness, these expressions of indignation, were they also concerned with his health. Did they become more acute after certain incidents?
A. We talked about the fact that Milch's excitability could be explained by an air crash in which he was over Munich in 1933. In any case his excitability became worse when the Field Marshal returned from his inspection tour at Stalingrad, where his car ran into a railway engine.
Q. Witness, do you know the secret orders by Himmler on the treatment of foreign workers which he issued to the SD?
A. No.
Q. Romberg's report on the State of Affairs in the East?
A. No.
Q. The regulations in Poland?
A. No, may I add that this be taken into consideration, that with the GL we had a colossal daily mail of about three thousand letters. I myself worked on about 10 percent. I had to look through about ten per cent of this and so, therefore, one only concentrated on the most important things, above all the things which called for action, and submit it to the Field Marshal and I read these things myself. Of course, any uninteresting reports which did not concern the work of the GL these were put away as quickly as possible considering the volume of mail.
Q. In other words, they never reached the eyes of Herr Milch.
A. Well, when you asked me about Romberg's reports. I can no longer refer to them now but it is quite possible that a great many things were immediately dealt with without reaching the Field Marshal.
Q. Did you work with Milch on a confidential or friendly basis?
A. I was with him for six or seven years and I got along with him very well. I hope he gave me his confidence.
Q. Did he ever tell you he heard anything about the mistreatment of foreign workers during their transport or recruiting?
A. No.
Q. Would it have been possible in that long period of time that you would have heard about this, was it his characteristic to say these things quite frequently?
A. Oh, yes, he would have talked about them.
Q. Witness, in August, 1941, Goering ordered the transfer of a hundred thousand workers into the air armament industry. Did this happen before Milch became GL?
A. August, 1941, after all Udet only died in November, 1941. In other words, it must have been before Milch's time.
Q. A document has been submitted according to which before November, 1941, Goering ordered the employment of Russian prisoners of war, who was GL at that time?
AAfter 1941, Udet, virtually throughout his last three months of his office, UDET did not work at Buehlerhoehe.
Q Did Milch look after the GL's office at that time?
A No, at that time the last chief of staff was in charge, Colonel Oberst Bloch.
Q In an affidavit of Sauckel, it has been stated that he had reported monthly to Milch concerning the recruiting of workers. He was under obligation to do so in fact. Do you know that Sauckel appeared to make oral reports?
A He was not under obligation to do so, because he was not our subordinate. Certain reports came in, of course, but not regularly, how many workers had been taken into the industry, but he was not under obligation to report.
Q Witness, what was Milch's attitude throughout to these reports of Sauckel? Did ha think they were true or did he fight against them?
A Sauckel's reports were not taken quite seriously. As I said before, on the occasion of the famous Fuehrer record they only received a fraction.
Q Is it known to you that Goering based answers on Sauckel's figures, and therefore reproached Milch for not producing enough?
A Sauckel's reports probably reached Goering and Goering believed we had a large number of workers, and then he said "why don't you with so many workers not produce more?" But an actual fact, we didn't have the workers.
Q Is it known to you that the GL requested foreign labor or was he more keen on German workers?
A Only in order to get increased production we had to concentrate on German workers, skilled specialists.
Q Is it known to you that Milch sought to keep German soldiers in the air armament industry?
A Yes, the General Staff of the Luftwaffe, also the OKW, Milch cleared with the authorities quite frequently in order to keep skilled German workers in the factories, and safeguard then from being called up.
Q Is it known to you also how Milch looked on the Air Armament Industry, did he prefer the fighter arm or the bomber arm, and why he took that attitude?
A Milch was more keen on the defensive idea. You might say from that he was so keen on producing more and more fighters, that is to say the defensive bomb.
Q Did he force foreign workers to lower bombs on aircraft or bomb anti-aircraft guns?
A The GL had no bomber aircraft to begin with. That is entirely up to the troops at the front, and he was not connected with the front in any way.
Q In April 1943 Milch sent a letter to Goering and Sauckel on the increased protection of industry for the guarding of industries in the fire areas, what did he want to achieve by that?
A To increase the protection against enemy air raids, or against sabotage acts.
Q Was that not supervision of foreign workers which he asked for there?
A No, I don't think so.
Q Was Milch in a position to send workers to anybody else at all, into a concentration camp?
1213a into a concentration camp?
A No, he did not have the power for that.
Q Were those comments made known to you which were made at the meetings?
A Yes.
Q Is it right to say the conversation was only limited?
A Yes.
Q And that these reports were circulated only among a restricted number of authorities?
A Yes, only two or three copies, the written records or verbatim reports, were circulated among only a certain number of people.
Q Were these departments under the GL or Central Planning Board?
A I only know the minutes of the GL, the Jaegerstab Amenstab, there were two or four copies each, which were meant only for the Chiefs.
Q These records or minutes once they were drawn up, did Milch check them up when he got them, or did you do so by his orders?
A In some cases, I didn't have the time to read, but only to spot check read reports of meetings which had been taken elsewhere.
Q Is it known to you that these records and minutes are really inaccurate?
A There were certain inaccuracies, yes, in figures for instance, and in names which turned up in the reports. The sense was in the whole correct.
Q Did it happen that when Milch spoke strong political words, were orders not given to omit that statement or put them in a different style?
A Yes, that is true. When Milch expressed indignation to the higher officers, then it was said "you needn't put that in the records."
Q Did it happen people were told "you must change that a little?"
A I would say omit it altogether or put it in a different form.
Q Were you present on the 25th, third month of 1944, when he addressed the Naval Engineers of the Quartermaster?
A Yes.
Q Can you recall that in that speech Milch was particularly strong and critical?
A I believe at that time the topic was to relieve certain material parts.
1214a *************Maloy (ATD)
A I believe at that time the topic was to relieve certain material parts. The troops had complained that many spare parts, small spare parts could not be had and it is well known that the head of a big air factory, for instance when he receives small requests, does not take them out. He must rather relieve the larger requests. And this technic on the part of heads of factories against this method of holding small things back, Milch attacked in his speech and expressed his wish in this matter. For that expression of his indignation I am cure he used strong language on that occasion.
Q Witness, what were the reasons to form the Jaegerstab?
A Speer's Ministry by giving reference for treatment to the task and U-Boat Arm created a disadvantage for the Luftwaffe. Too much material and labor were taken into the Speer Ministry. The Luftwaffe had to be increased in its potential, and at that time Field Marshall Milch conceived the idea, together with Speer, to increase ail production for the Luftwaffe. He borrowed the best men from Speer for this Jaegerstab, a man called Sauer, and this is how it came about in the spring that the Jaegerstab was founded.
Q Who was the real head one under the formal head of the Jaegerstab?
AAt the beginning Field Marshall Milch, for about three or four months, from March to the summer, then he couldn't take part in the meetings much and then Sauer became the command.
Q Wasn't Sauer very active in the Jaegerstab in the beginning?
A Yes, his activities developed.
Q who wanted the air industry to be transferred, was that a Hitler order, the idea of Hitler, or could it have been Goering as well?
A In my opinion it was a Hitler order. I only know the Hitler order.
Q Did the Jaegerstab recruit foreign workers in occupied territories?
A No, that was exclusively the task of the Plenopotentiaries for the Naval assignments.
Q Was Milch in a position to give orders to the OKW, OKH, and OKL?
A No, nobody would allow anyone to interfere with his sphere of office, nor was he superior officer to these departments, no.
DR. BERGOLD: I myself have no more questions to this witness at this point.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. DENNEY:
Q Witness, you said that you were with Udet until November, 1941?
A Yes.
Q And thereafter Milch, and you were with Milch up until the end; when was the end?
A I left Milch in the last days of March or early in April 1945.
Q By the way how did Udet die?
A Yes.
Q How?
A He shot himself.
Q Where?
A In Berlin.
Q In the Air Ministry?
A In his private flat.
Q How, you said that Sauckel was completely in charge.
of all labor matters, but the requisitioning of labor for the Air Ministry went through the Office of the Generalluftzeugmeister?
A. We had only report or requests filed, and thereupon we were allocated workers by Sauckel.
Q. So the whole industry would send up to the Generalluftzeugmeister what they would need, and they would consolidate them and forward them to Sauckel, hoping they would get some labor?
A. It was hoped that he would supply the labor.
Q. Now, you said that Milch gave orders with reference to the kindly treatment of the laborers in the aircraft industry, is that right?
A. Yes. I said at that time in the Jaegerstab there was a special department to look after these people.
Q. They wanted to keep them happy and they wanted to keep the production up?
A. They wanted them to do good work.
Q. Because Germany was trying to get some fighter airplanes?
A. Yes.
Q. And he gave orders that these people should be well treated?
A. It wasn't a special order to treat them well, but this was within the organization of facilities that this special department was founded. Additional food, additional tobacco were given to these people.
Q. And these orders came down from the G.L.?
A. Yes, from the G.L.
Q. Now, early in 1941 or sometime around the middle of 1941 when these 100 thousand French workers came on a decree of Goering to work in the air armament, Udet knew about that, didn't he?
A. Yes, that must have been at Udet's time.
Q. Did you know about those 100 thousand workers that came in there?
A. No.
Q. Do you know whether or not the defendant knew about them?
A. I don't think so. I can hardly think that Udet would have talked to the Field Marshall about this, for at that time, Milch didn't have to concentrate on armament so much.
Q. On 17th November 1941, do you remember an exodus of 100 thousand French workers back to France?
A. You don't recall that they all went back as soon as Udet died, do you?
Q. No.
Q. Now, these Russian prisoners of War that had been ordered by Goering to work in the airplane industry, that was under Udet too, was it?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know about the Russian prisoners of War working in the airplane factory?
A. I could not recall any such thing. I don't think we had Russians in the industry.
Q. You didn't have any Russians in the industry?
A. I cannot say so for certain.
Q. Well, you lived up near Berlin and there were big factories up there where you lived, and you used to see the workers; did you ever see any Russians there?
A. I said before I knew about Russian girls who worked in the factories.
Q. You saw Russian girls there, did you ever see any Russian prisoners of war?
A. I could not recall any prisoners of war, soldiers who were prisoners.
Q. There were other kinds of prisoners of war besides soldiers; you are a soldier and certainly knew what a prisoner of war is?
A. I should say I saw these people work in uniform. If they were prisoners of war would they be in uniform? I saw Russian girls and knew there were Frenchmen there, and I knew there were soldiers,--
Q. You never saw any Russian Prisoners of War workers and as far as you know there never were any?
A. I saw workers in the streets and on the railroad tracks.
Q. But you never saw any Russian prisoners of War working in the airplane industry?
A. I never saw uniformed soldiers in the industry.
Q. As far as you knew none of them ever worked in the industry?
A. I believe not.
Q. At the time that Goering ordered these Russian prisoners of War into Udet, you didn't know about it?
A. No.
Q. Now, you said that reports on workers coming into the industry were made by Sauckel to the Generalluftzauegmeister; how often did these reports come in?
A. On the supply of labor I believe that there were reports quarterly giving figures.
Q. Were these reports broken down into the source of the labor?
A. Do you mean that there were so many French and so many Russian and people from other nations? Do you mean people from Russia, France and other countries?
Q. Yes, where they came from?
A. I believe so. It was said that there were people from France and other countries. That was not my immediate job and therefore I had no records about it, on the question of labor.
Q. You saw the reports that came in with breakdowns of where they came from?
A. But without really taking them in.
Q. You weren't in charge of labor, there was no reason for you to take them in?
A. No, my main task was simply to distribute mail and send each report to the right office.
Q. You don't want the Court to believe you were just a postal clerk, do you?
A. I think the adjutant had to do a little more then distribute mail.
Q. You were a colonel of the Luftwaffe?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, you said that the defendant was never connected with the front in any way, didn't he have a field command at one time during the War?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Where was it, do you recall?
A. In Norway.
Q. He was commander of an air fleet up there?
A. Yes, of an air fleet.
Q. Do you remember which one it was?
A. Air Fleet 5 of Norway.
Q. You also said that Milch had not power to get anybody into a concentration camp?
A. Yes.
Q. Could he have gotten anybody out?
A. He could at the most approach the officers in charge of the concentration camps and ask them to release that man.
Q. Well who would he approach if he wanted to get anybody out?
A. I should think Himmler.
Q. Himmler was in charge of these, wasn't he?
A. Yes.
Q. You know that all during the war that Himmler was head of the concentration camps?
A. Yes, I know that.