In spite of this, in his opinion, one cannot do without bringing additional French labor to Germany. It must therefore be attempted to find a happy union of both things. In this connection, he proposes to designate protected works in France, in order to induce the French to work in these plants,.... through the pressure of allocation of labor for Germany. He affirms again upon my statement, that the protected plants have already been established, the importance of this institution and the necessity to create here a basis of long range confidence. He thinks that it is my affair whether I will be able to do without French Labor or not; Sauckel would be only happy if I would do without them. (page 4 of original) Upon my reply that not only this is concerned, but that also the question of the executive power is involved, since otherwise a loss of prestige for Germany and a disorder in the allocation of French Labor would be inevitable, the Fuehrer declares that this is, of course, one of the most important bases for further discussions. I then told him that on 3 January there will be a meeting between Himmler, Keitel, Sauckel and myself (Kehrl) (is the Foreign Office to be included?), at which these problems will be discussed. Subsequently there shall be a meeting with him, at which the possibility of executive power in France, as far as the allocation, and the transport of French workers to Germany is ccncerned will be laid before him. (Kehrl to do advance work, that we also make a claim for executive power for the protection of the factories in France against partisans.)
I shall now proceed to another document; namely a written statement made by Karl Wolff, of 21st November, 1946, which will become Exhibit No. 35, on page 18 of this document book. Karl Wolff -- he is the man who was mentioned here repeatedly under the name of Wolffie; dear Wolffie.
MR. DENNY: If your Honors please, I object to the admission of any statement by Wolff because there is great doubt as to the man's competency at this time; he was in London as a British prisoner; and later, I believe he is now in Italy, and I don't think that this statement should be admitted. We may be able to get a statement from the British medic I authorities as to his competency; however, at this time I do not think it should be accepted.
THE PRESIDENT: Is it a question of his Mental competency last November?
MR. DENNY: Yes, your Honor. If the Court wanted to take it provisionally to save time, I have no objection at all.
THE PRESIDENT: I think we are obliged to do that; if it appears later that this is a statement from an incompetent witness, it can be stricken; but I can't anticipate that showing.
MR. DENNY: Very well, sir.
DR. BERGOLD: I am now introducing this statement because I am afraid that Wolff, who was granted me as a witness, might not arrive here in time; if he is in Italy now, I don't believe they will get him here in time for this trial; but I'd rather have him here.
I shall read the document; "Karl Wolff, London, 21 November 1946. Subject; Low Pressure and Freezing Experiments in Concentration Camps.
"Having received knowledge of the documents in the possession of the court, and after the following exhibits have been submitted to me and I have read them.
16 March 1942 Letter Wolff to Hippke 7 May 1942 Letter Hippke to Wolff 20 May 1942 Letter Milch to Wolff 20 July 1942 Letter Rascher to Brandt 25 August 1942 Letter Himmler to Milch 31 August 1942 Letter Milch to Himmler 3 November 1942 Letter Himmler to Milch 23 November 1942 Letter V. Herff to Wolff 12 January 1943 Letter Sievers to Wolff 4 February 1943 Note Sievers to Brandt Basic Idea and Basic Direction of the Experiments.
"In this case it becomes so complicated that of the two men responsible to be clarified as Himmler and Rascher, a primary condition is to be taken into consideration in order to give the right value to the extraordinary strong tendency of Himmler to all his new experiments; and all the fields of science and life; and also, the peculiar background of his personal relationships to Dr. Rascher's wife.
"Aside from the fact that Himmler concerned himself with all the question of race, of increasing the German birth rate and its quality, was the German Lebensraum (Vital Space) policy in the East as well as was Aryan-Germanic excavations, constant experiments were one of the most beloved hobbies of the Reich Fuehrer SS Himmler. This letter tendency went from the extreme ideal to the extreme material field. Below I shall quote a few typical examples out of greAt number. (last word inserted with pencil).
"Every soldier and ex-service man has to admit that the abolition of locks in the barracks of the SS, which Himmler decreed for the Waffen SS was a revolutionary experiment on the basis of the SS basic law of the holiness of property. In the cultural field also, he had experiments conducted until the SS factory Allach for porcelain succeeded in producing friedericianic and SS horsemen of which the moving horses were carried only by their two logs exactly as it is in reality, without the artificial support under the belly of the horse which otherwise was always needed even by the most famous manufactures for techno-statical reasons. With regard to the experiments in the field of mental science, suggested by or ordered by Himmler, the president of the "Ahnenerbe" and, SS Ober-Fuehrer Processor Wuest, former dean and director of the University of Munich is the best man to give information. But Himmler was also constantly active during the war as an untiring initiator sponsor, full of imagination, where the improvement of food, clothes, equipment, health, and sports in the SS were concerned. (1 word inserted with pencil).
"Thus the introduction of the old Germanic oatmeal porridge against all resistance based on the difference of taste, instead of the morning coffee which had become a tradition in the German armed Forces, as well as the serving of milk, an excellent cheap mineral water in the S. S, canteens, in order to reduce the consumption of beer, etc.
, are his, Himmler's achievements. Also, during the war, the production and use of vitamins and calorie concentrates for the Waffen SS and even for SS mothers and SS children before the Armed Forces introduced it. Furthermore, the invention of the camouflage umbrellas, camouflage jackets, and camouflage suits, which, to the envy of its comrades in the Armed Forces, the Milch had become a tradition in the German Armed Forces, as well as the serving of milk, and excellent, especially cheap mineral water in the SS canteens, in order to reduce the consumption of beer, etc.
, are his, Himmler's achievements. Also, during the war, the production and use of vitamins and calorie concentrates for the Waffen SS and even for SS mothers and SS children before the Armed Forces introduced it. Furthermore, the invention of the camouflage umbrellas, camouflage jackets, and camouflage suits which, to the envy of its comrades in the Armed Forces, the Waffen SS had for a long time as first and only unit in front assignment, as well as, in October 1941 in Russia, real winter fur clothing. Further achievements of Himmler are the developing financing of the first German amphibious automobile, and promoting and practical application of new natural remedies with the SS and his own circle of friends. (Magethepathia, applied by Setzkern, Berlin, and massage of the whole nervous system, applied by the doctor of natural medicine, Felix Kersten, Berlin-Hartzwalde.)
"That Himmler during these experiments did not refrain from including himself or his subordinates in the SS; that is proved already by the fact that in peace time he already introduced the obligation, for every member of the SS who was not excused fully by medical certificates to pass the sports exams for the Reich Special Insignia. He, himself, forced his untrained body in a month long strenuous training to pass this exam in spite of the fact that he was not a sportsmen at all, and in 1936 he obtained the insignia at the same time as I. In 1938 and 1939 he wanted to replace this insignia by an SS sport insignia with harder conditions including an additional test of courage consisting of a parachute jumping from an airplane.
JUDGE MUSSMAN0: What has this long econium on the great virtues of Himmler got to do with the present issue?
DR. BERGOLD: I just wanted to read the most important part, as Mr. Denny was not quite sure as to the mental condition of the man. I want to show how he explained all those experiments and I just wanted to skip a few pages.
I shall now read from the continuation of page 2 of the original:
"The idea of Himmler's concerning these experiments: this showed the relationship of the Reichsfuehrer SS with Rascher's wife Mimi Diehl."
I shall skip a few sentences here: "I only know that she was a 'persona gratissima' with Himmler in the pattern of whose prejudiced opinion the fact fitted in excellently, 'a woman of good race even of 48 to 49 years, as demonstrated by the example Rascher can still produce in quick sequence three well formed children.! I deem it impossible that at that time there existed any unlawful intimate relations between Himmler and Mimi Diehl-Rascher."
I will skip a few more sentences; I shall continue on page 3 of the original, page 22 of your Honors, he said: "that these children which were born of this woman were stolen from other people." This just shows what this man Rascher was: "The spiritual father of the idea to carry out such experiments in a concentration camp was the Stabsarzt in the reserve of the Luftwaffe, Dr. Rascher. I knew from the preliminary explanations given to me by Himmler when we drove together from Munich in a car to Dachau which we went to see a demonstration on some low pressure experiments at the end of 1942, February, 1942."
I skip a few more sentences, which are not important, and I shall continue on page 3 of the original, page 23 of your Honors the underlined sentences: "Therefore, Himmler was altogether responsible for making possible the execution of the experiments in the concentration camps, while Dr. Rascher was the executive law. I shall continue: "Right after the arrival in the concentration camp, Dachau, Dr. Rascher started with his experiments. About 10 prisoners were standing in front of their barracks. They looked quite detached and one after the other they climbed willingly into the low pressure chamber which was built into an automobile. Each experiment took only a few minutes, in accordance with the height that was imitated and with the normal falling speed of the human body. After they had left the low pressure chamber it took the prisoners only about two minutes until, lying on a blanket on the floor of the barracks, they had recovered from the short 1015a endurance test.
After that, in the knowledge of what they had just achieved they became actually confiding None of them were political prisoners, they were all rightly and lawfully declared to be unworthy for military service because of a strong criminal record.
"They emphatically assured Himmler in my presence that in this manner, after a request to get a chance to prove their value at the front had been rejected, they had at least made a voluntary, modest contribution for Germany with their own persons, and that thereby they wanted to prove their good-will which really existed. Thereupon Himmler promised then to use his influence with the Fuehrer to obtain their release and the front assignment they wanted.
I shall skip a few sentences and then I shall proceed with the continuation of page four of the original part that is translated:
"As far as I recollect I have gained no knowledge from Himmler of from any other sources of the fact that the later on low pressure experiments, for instance, were carried out on inmates, on a non-voluntary basis. I had no part in any freezing experiments whatsoever. The office I held at that time, responsibility and position taken with regard to the low pressure and freezing experiments."
I shall skip one paragraph and shall continue on the reverse of page four of the original:
"During the period of the experiments in the concentration camp, in other words, from the 1st of May until the 18th of February 1943, I was, it is true, in a leading position. However, I had no active part in the conducting of the experiments or in the reports and expert work on them. This work was assumed by Dr. Rascher, /Dr. Romberg, Sievers and Dr. Rudolf Brandt."
This is on page four of the original--the reverse of this:
"For the rest of it I have only signed, in the best of faith, and according to orders given by the Reichsfuehrer SS, the few requests sent to me by the responsible exports Sievers and Dr. Brandt."
For the information of these orders which had already taken place by Dr. Rascher apart from the low- pressure as well as his assignments of the Luftwaffe to the SS within the framework of his duties. I shall skip a paragraph.
"As in general, the Reichsfuehrer SS signed only letters addressed to persons of his own rank, it was to me that on his orders--a year long custom, occuring almost every day--the letter to Generalloberstabsarzt Dr. Hippke of 16 April 1942 was sent, together with other mail, for signature. This letter, 1017a the photostat of which has been submitted to me, has obviously been drawn up and written in the office of Sievers, Ahnenerbe, consequently neither by myself nor by my personal reporter, Proff:
neither my usual dictation initials nor those of my reporter are on the document, but down on the right side, at the end of the letter next to my rank, there is an initial unknown to me and not belonging to my inner staff. M. Dr. Furthermore, the writing next to the initial reads "Lieutenant General of the Waffen SS", and therefore the letter "Lieutenant" had to be crossed out by myself, for I had been promoted on 30 January 1942 to the rank of SS-Ober ruppenfuehrer and Commanding General of the Waffen SS. Every member of my staff, at that time had known that already for two and a half months, and was quite familiar with the fact that the rank of SS-Obergruppenfuehrer which was indicated correctly in the document corresponds and entitled to the grade "General of Waffen SS." Therefore the compose of this letter was not a military agency but the scientific agency "Das Ahnenerbe". As the contents were only pertaining to the prolongation of an already existing assignment, and as shortly before I had witnesses in Dachau that the prisoners had undoubtly voluunteered and were acting in their own interest, I had no reason, whatsoever, not to sign."
"The answering letter of Hippke of 7 May 1942 which was addressed to me, is another example, on the postal reception in the left lower corner of the letter the mark is "RF", meaning Reichsfuehrer SS, and not "CH. F." meaning Chief of the Personal Staff--Wolf. And in fact my usual handwritten initial "W" is not on the letter either. Therefore, this letter had not even been submitted ted to me.
"The telegram to General Field Marshal Milch ***** has apparently been sent off with simply my name under it, by Dr. Brandt for reasons of urgency and of geographical distance.
"The answering letter of Field Marshal Milch of 20 May 1942, addressed to me does not bear my handwritten initial "W", and has therefore not been submitted to me either.
"The letter of Dr. Rascher to Dr. Brandt of 20 June 1942 is also marked "RF" in the left lower corner of the postal reception stamp. As far as I 1018a recall I have net seen the work cf Rascher and Romberg on "Experiments for rescue or so great heights" which is mentioned in this letter.
Besides, this letter proves that Himmler had practically assumed the right to get the first report and that he decided, after a preliminary censoring, that Milch should receive reports of conferences and films on the results of the experiments and what he should get.
"The first paragraph of Milch's letter of thanks to Himmler of 31 August 1942 shows that at that time apparently everything was all right because otherwise lectures and films 'with Milch's gentlemen' would not have been conceivable and possible. As to the second paragraph I have to say that Milch contacted Himmler, mostly after longer intervals, for general discussion on the whole situation, on the condition of the armament industry, and on his constantly increasing worries and discrepancies with Goering."
I will skip a few sentences.
MR. DENNEY: I wonder would Dr. Bergold be good enough to read the balance of this paragraph.
DR. BERGOLD: "I always promoted with all means at my disposal the occasional meetings between Milch and Himmler. They took place quite informally at common meals or with a cup of coffee and a good cigar. They were extremely valuable for Himmler, who wanted to keep informed of everything while they were extremely important for Milch who had fallen in disgrace with Goering and for whom Himmler's backing was only a question of self-preservation."
"In Himmler's letter to Milch of 3 November 1942 on page 1, line 2, the words 'by SS Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff' are crossed out. This also proves that the experiments conducted at that time had not received Milch's attention through my persuasion, but only prolongations of assignment of minor importance on the request for Rascher's transfer from the Luftwaffe into the SS. Besides, this letter contains in the middle of the first and on the second page Himmler's admittal to assume personally and abne the responsibility for all experiments."
Your Honor, I wish to add here that the witness did not submit a letter to Milch - his own personal letter to Milch - and that is why he was left in confusion as to the fact that Himmler's letter was just a draft.
"The letter addressed to me on 23 November 1942 by von Herff, Chief of the SS personnel, confirms that I had now directed into the channels of the competent Chief of SS personnel, the transfer of Rascher from the Luftwaffe into the SS, transfer aimed at by the Reichsfuehrer SS. Unfortunately, Herff died on 6 September 1945 in the PW Camp No. 1 in England as a consequence of an apoplexy of the brain."
Shall we call a recess, Your Honor?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, and the Tribunal does not plan to sit this afternoon. You can continue the reading of these documents after the witnesses whom you will use on Friday and Monday testify. The Tribunal will recess until tomorrow morning at 9:30.
THE MARSHAL: This Tribunal is in recess until 0930 tomorrow corning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 0930 hours, 14 February 1947.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Erhard Milch, defendant, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 14 February 1947, 0930-1630, Justice Toms presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 2.
Military Tribunal 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal wishes to announce that it will run until 1 o'clock today and reconvene at 2:30.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, may I call the witness Romberg since the first witness has been excused because of illness?
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will produce the witness Hans Romberg.
HANS WOLFGANG ROMBERG, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q What is your name?
A Hans Wolfgang Romberg.
Q Raise your right hand and repeat after me: I swear by God, the almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath).
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q Witness, I would appreciate if you would speak slowly and, furthermore, I wish that you would make a pause after ovary question I ask you in order to enable the translators or interpreters to follow you. Would you tell this Tribunal your first name and last name.
A Hans Wolfgang Romberg.
Q When were you born?
A On the 15th of May, 1911.
1022 a
Q What was your position towards the end of the war, and what was your official position?
AAt the end of the war I was Division Chief of the Division for High altitude Research at the Institute for Aviation Medicine, in the German experimental station for aviation in Berlin Adlershof.
Q Witness, do you know Mr. Milch personally?
A No, not personally.
Q Did you ever see him anywhere before the end of the war?
A No, I never saw him personally.
Q Witness, you participated in those so-called first high-altitude experiments which were carried out by you together with Dr. Ruff and Dr. Rascher?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q Once during an examination on the 29th of October 1946 - you have ....
DR. BERGOLD: May it please this Tribunal, this is Exhibit No. 107, NORM 391, which is in document book No. 5 b of the prosecution. It is page 133, Your Honors.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal feels that it is proper to state to the witness that he may refuse to answer any question the answer to which might tend to incriminate or degrade him.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you, sir. May it please this Tribunal, I am of the same opinion, only I couldn't say so myself because I had to follow German usages where the German lawyer has no right to tell him that, it is up to the Tribunal to toll the witness. Thank you, Your Honors.
BY DR. BERGOLD:
Q Witness, is it correct that in your institute you carried out self experiments and you already attained the altitude of 17,000 meters?
A Yes, that is correct.
Q These experiments, were they carried out with oxygen masks or without oxygen masks?
A That differed. Part of the experiments were carried out with them and some without them according to their purpose.
Q Were these experiments so called climbing experiments or falling experiments?
A Those were pressure, rapid reduction in pressure experiments.
1023 a We took certain heights and further experiments were carried out with rapid reduction in pressure and most of the time with rapid reduction in pressure from 8,000 to cloud-level.
Q Witness, I shall submit to you now the report of the 26th of July 1942 which also is signed by you and which should be known to you.
(Paper handed to witness.)
In this report an experiment is being described which was carried out on an experimental subject which was called no. Was that an inmate who was under your supervision or was it you yourself?
A That was I.