Your Honors, you Trill see that for air armament nothing is provided. Speer made specific demands as replacements for fluctuations, which means that they were to be shifted from one work to another.
I skip several things and continue on page 53 of the original, page 59 of the German, page 48 of the English document book, in the second paragraph "a further problem":
"A further problem, which was already discussed, is the question of the increasing production in the factories themselves, especially the reduction of loafing and illness, etc. The proclamation was issued to the managers, which was signed by the Staatssekretaer and Minister Speer, and in which the managers were asked to direct their attention to this question. Experience lias shown -- I remind you of Siemens -- that a very well organized health system in the plant itself can considerably reduce the sickness rate. At Siemens the sickness rate decreased by 3 per cent. Figured in terms of workers, this amounts to very high number.
"Kehrl: Successful measures in this field would contribute enormously to covering the shortage. Three per cent are 300,000 men."
Your Honors, you will see that the figures which are discussed do not state that it is tried to bring up slave labor. It is merely a discussion of what can be done to increase the output of the available manpower. It is stated that by immediate treatment of the sick by competent physicians, 300,000 men who otherwise would be out could be restored to industry." I continue:
"Berk: This question is of enormous importance. We need here the energetic support of the plants themselves. The same applies to the problem of production increase. We are convinced that there are still enormous production reserves in the plants. It is a fact that some people are not fully utilized. The reason for that may be that they had to wait for a program, that the raw material did not arrive on time, or that the system of the shifting of contracts was not clear. There are workers idle. That is where the well known communications and letters from foreign workers originate, saying that they are standing around without work. Or German women report this who bring work along to the factories. I do not wish to generalize from that in any way, but these things come to us. The whole question was brought up by gentlemen who are outside of our plants.
"The question of re-examining the plants has been raised. Minister Speer has given this his attention in order to mobilize production."
Your Honors, foreign workers write, "We have too little work. We are standing around idle. If these people had been feeling badly or if they had felt themselves to be slaves, they would not have written "What's the matter, we have no work." Only satisfied people can do that, in my opinion
THE PRESIDENT: Is it possible that they were German workers?
DR. BERGOLD: No, "That is where the well known communications and letters from foreign workers originate."
THE PRESIDENT: It speaks of German women.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, German women, but in principle of foreign workers. "This is the origin of the well known communications from foreign workers who say that they are standing around without work." German women say something different. They report about their own work which they bring into their work as, for instance, knitting, darning etc. That is what they are speaking about.
Wilch continues:
"I believe that something should finally be done now for a fair piecework wage. This means that the man, if he really produces more, can also make more money, without the National Trustee of Labor (Treuhaender der Arbeit) saying that it is impossible.
"Berk: This is a problem of the so-called wage-regulating measures."
I skip the rest of the paragraph and continue with Milch:
"let us assume that a worker produces today 100 pieces an hour at such and such a wage. We want him to produce approximately 115 to 120 pieces for the same wage.
He should, however, be able to produce 130 to 140 pieces, if he goes to it. Then he should receive more. That is apparently, first of all, a wage ceiling for the worker. But if through agreement, training, or education, we can influence the worker by saying to him, 'You can easily make more money; your increased production now is due to improved machines and organization; that is no incentive for you, because piece work wage rate was wrong; if you have the right one, you can exceed it', then we can achieve something by giving his personal willingness the additional inducement of a wage increase."
You will see that in such a way it is being tried to increase the work by granting higher wages.
On the next page, I continue, page 58 of the original, 50 of the English Document, the third paragraph before the last one:
"WILCH: We can then deduct from the 2,000,000 approximately 1,000,000 as a fictitious fluctuation.
"KEHRL: I would suggest that we discuss this question in the smaller circle. The difference between real and fictitious fluctuation is very decisive in the figures which were stated by the various sources. Even if we do not know the extent of the figures, we shall gradually, by means of the new statistics, arrive at a knowledge of it.
"MILCH: Let us leave the question open, how high it is. But even today we must reduce by a considerable amount the figures, in the amount of 3,500,000 which were indicated for the second to fourth quarters. The exact number would be determined. We would then arrive at a total of approximately 3,600,000. These would actually be men who would have to be brought into the work process from the homeland and abroad, who actually have to be introduced anew.
"(BERK: That is how Gauleiter SAUCKEL sees it!) But the transfers between the plants were not included. This would also facilitate the task of bringing them in."
He declared that this number was still too high. I continue on page 59 of the original, the same page, page 51 of the English document:
"KEHRL: I have asked some friends of mine to establish in their plants, when preparing the statistics, how much was real and how much fictitious fluctuation with them in the last year. Yesterday or the day before yesterday I received a statement from a longer concern. According to that, the fictitious fluctuation in the last year was, with the great majority of the plants, in accordance with what was estimated here. The fictitious fluctuation, no doubt, is also larger in industry than in transportation and agriculture. It is different in the individual groups.
"MILCH: That is the point which caused all the misunderstandings. Sauckel said, 'I brought you eight million people.' We asked, "Where are they?
', because we always figure the entire personnel of the plants. The statistics of the employment offices are important but not relevant for these figures."
Here, the defense establishes these figures which were mentioned there; they are all erroneously given by ----- (Kehrl?) It is continued:
"BERK: The coverage of the fluctuation is received by us as a requirement. Therefore the coverage is an allotment.
"WAEGER: Not for industry. Of what use is it if it is assigned on paper and figured as an allotment?
"MILCH: It is really ah allotment. Assume, for instance, that a factory has 100,000 men on the first of January. On 1 July the factory has 98,000 men. For us that is a minus of 2,000. In spite of that there can have been allotments from 20,000 to 30,000 through the real and fictitious fluctuation. You say now, 'I allocated to you for this plant 30,000 men.' That is perfectly correct. We say, 'We did not get them.' That is wrong. We only know we went down from 100,000 to $8,000. That means we lost 2,000. We take only the balance, whereas you take the individual transactions. If this is once formulated correctly, wonderful clarity results."
This is due to the fact because the people are constantly being shifted from one factory to another one. All these fluctuations are not covered by actual figures. They arc only figures for statistical reasons. I continue. I'm skipping something. On page 61 of the original, page 32 of the English:
"WAEGER: I still want to mention the complaints which wore made because cf the letters of the foreigners. It has been said that workers were being hoarded in industry. We were very grateful that the GBA turns those matters over to us. "With regard to the aviation industry, we did the following: Field Marshal Milch gave us permission for a Luftwaffe officer to take part in it. There were furthermore a representative of the GBA and a representative of the Ruestungsdienststelle. We made a lightening-like inspection of the factory, The received permission to talk to the individual people who said that this factory was hoarding men. It appeared that every thing was subjective opinion and that it was not true.
If, for instance, a worker wrote that he had steal around and had had no work. That was the case on three days because the supply of raw material did not arrive because air raid damage occurred and because the feeder industry could not deliver the material on time. Such cases were used by these people and, in fact, they are people who want to go home. We had twenty cases investigated. It turned cut that it was not the ill-will of the workers. There was, in fact, something in it, but it lay in another field.
"MILCH: Those are still the mild cases. Most of the cases which I have to investigate are such that the person concerned is dissatisfied with his rating and treatment, that he says that to take revenge. He writes to any befriended man of the party or to anybody else nothing at all is done here, there is no organization. There is loafing. I can see at once what the plant has produced, with how many workers and with what means it has worked. In such eases it always turns out that the person concerned only wants to cause trouble for his foreman or plant engineer.
"BERK: I did not make any reproach but have only shown the problem.
"WAEGER: However, you have expressed the opinion that output reserves which are not being utilized are still present there.
"MILCH: Let us say honestly, that is the case everywhere because it is not possible at all to make use of people to the largest possible extent. The leading industrial personnel is lacking for the best personnel we had has been drafted to the Wehrmacht to a very large extent. Certainly a big mess will fellow. And certainly there should be a possibility of proceeding differently, that is, if at any time somebody engaged in the work should complain -
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, we're not getting anything in the English.
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honor, I just noticed that the translation, for which I am not responsible, would make of certain passages of my original -- . Evidently that, happened in the Translation Division. They were very pressed for time.
Perhaps I do not know how I can take care of it technically, because I can't tell the Translation Department how to do their work.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denney, do you raise any objections to this untranslated portion being read?
MR. DENNEY: If Your Honor please, I have no objections to the reading of the untranslated portion, if we can got a translation from the interpreters as ho gives it and if at a later time Dr. Bergold Trill give us a certified translation from the Translation Department.
THE PRESIDENT: How much of this material is there?
MR. DENNEY: About 15 lines.
DR. BERG0LD: Your Honor, it is not entirely one page.
THE PRESIDENT: Go ahead ad and read it.
DR. BERGOLD: "Consequently it is not possible to exploit every foreigner entirely" (reading from "about 15 lines of untranslated portion" previously referred to).
MR. DENNEY: Your Honor, it isn't coning through -
DR. BERGOLD: "- I too am in favor of human rights, but we must have moans of acting against foreigners who show passive resistance." This has already been read to the Tribunal, but I just want to get it into the context.
"In the case of a plant foreman touching a prisoner of war and slapping his face, however, a terrible rumpus is raised immediately. The man is put in prison. There are a groat number of people in Germany who believe it is their principal duty to stand up for human rights Either than for the war production. With this I do not agree. But when a Frenchman declares: "You boches will all be hanged", then the plant foreman is first taken off the payroll, and when he then says: "I'm going to slap him in the face", that's his doom. There is no protection for him, only for the poor guy who has made that statement. I have told my engineers; "If you don't slap a man like that, I'm going to punish you. The more you do in this regard, the more I'll praise you. You will not be punished, I can assure you of that." This has not yet become generally known. But I want to see the one whom I catch, because I an able to take care of anyone who wishes to be caught by me. When the little plant boss does this, he is put in the Concentration Camp or he faces removal of the prisoners of war. In one case two Russian officers stole a car and started out in it. They tried to escape. I have immediately ordered the hanging of the men. They have been hanged or shot yesterday, I left that up to the SS. I was said to have hanged them in full view of time others. In the end, there always fellows a big mess and there is sure to be somebody who exerts his influence for the PW's. At any rate, if we had better losing personnel and a better coordination, we would be a.t once in a. position to produce mere, particularly if the regulations directed against malingerers were made more rigid.
"BERK: At first , one would theoretically divide the four million into four quarters.
Then one million would fall to the first quarter. Of course, this cannot be. The program was not decided on until January. Quite a number of measures are necessary in order to get it started. The first quarter will be the most difficult. Nevertheless, I believe I am in a position to say, with certain reservations, that for February and March together we can count upon a figure of about 500,000."
Certainly there would have to be somebody who would have to stand up for human rights. If this man had not done it himself, he certainly would not have spoken of it. But ho spoke of this natter where the fear of his own religion interfered and ho made a statement on that and it was said in Germany ho criticized it in strong language. Certainly it would be followed by dismissal because he had been warned by the Fuehrer not to say anything against the Fuehrer. Illogical, because another sentence would have followed "We would have been immediately in a position to produce better -- stick together to make it all one... hold ..."
Evidently the minutes are contradictory, not clear, and were subsequently corrected. Later - I am trying to do it, I hope to be able to do so; however, I am 564 A offering these documents to give you a clear picture of this case and hope to be able to show for certain that the decision in this case was not made by the defendant but by the Fuehrer himself without the defendant's knowing anything about it; on the contrary I will show that he had trouble, and because he was afraid of the consequences he had the record changed; but, considering the entire document, one sees that something is wrong with the thing; it is just like an Arabian erratic block in a meadow in spring.
Your Honors, I will have to road the exhibit which refers to the Central Planning Board. I now pass it up as Exhibit No. 12 and the Organization Plan at the beginning of my book, page two of your copy. I shall pass on the photostat of this speech as an original. It is dated when Speer was not yet in the Armament, placing orders. It shows the real spirit of this man:
(Reads) You will see how kind this man acted solely in the interest of collaboration. This is not the way a slave driver acts or speaks; rather it is an equal speaking to equals and striving for good neighbor collaboration.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, the Tribunal is convinced your request for an adjournment is a reasonable one. The Court will, therefore, be in recess until next Monday, February 3rd, at 9:30 AM.
DR. BERGOLD: I thank your Honors for your groat understanding.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is in recess until 0930 hours, February 3, 1947.
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the Matter of the United States of American, against Erhard Milch, defendant, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 3 February, 1947, Justice Toms, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal No. 2. The Military Tribunal No. 2 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: You may proceed.
DR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, for the time being I would like to read from Exhibit No. 11 of my document book. Another passage I would like to read when last Monday I skipped certain parts for the Tribunal It's on page 26 of the original and Exhibit No. 11. It's on page 50 of the German document book.
JUDGE PHILLIPS: What page in the American document book?
DR. BERGOLD: Also page 50 in the American Document book. That is page 26 of the original concerning certain statements made by Milch. That is, concerning the terms "shirker." "Milch: That is not the way I meant that. By "shirker" I mean a man who on the first of March signs a contract with Junkers, does not work there, then loses his job on the first of April, signs another contract with a different firm, does not work there for about 14 days, then he becomes sick or reports sick for the rest of the month and does not show up at all and sometimes he is in a bad mood so the factory says 'get the pig out'. Such a man under such circumstances will appear 12 times a year. Those are the people I call "shirker". Not the good house-father who has to take care of his house." What I mean by that, he is referring to people whose homes have been damaged by bombs. I shall continue. "We are taking care of all of those matters as soon as possible." I shall close this quotation. And now I would like to introduce as Exhibit No. 12 NOKW-337, on page 57 of the German document book. I think it's also on page 67 of the English document book. This concerns the shorthand report concerning the Jaegerstab meeting of the 6 March 1944. in the Reich Aviation Ministry.
THE PRESIDENT: We havn't found it in the American book yet.
DR. BERGOLD: That's page 65, your Honor. It can be found in the index. It comes after Exhibit No. 11, after the last number I-124.
THE PRESIDENT: This is the meeting of the 6th of March?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: The document on page 65 is the meeting of the 25th of April.
DR. BERGOLD: No, sir. It's the 6th of March. It's page 67 of the German document book.
THE PRESIDENT: Page 54 of the American document book.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you. I shall begin now. "I see a great many unknown faces and I do not know what business all of these gentlemen have here. I suggest that a check be made at the door and that the showing of passes be mandatory. Otherwise there is danger that other people may sneak in here. I demand therefore stricter control under all circumstances. Furthermore I would ask that the gentlemen are present at meetings only as long and no longer as their business makes this necessary. I would therefore request that the gentlemen in question report his presence and says, I have only a few matters of general interest. These things could then be taken up first and that would settle that and the man could leave. We only want one gentleman for one subject, not a whole bunch of them."
May it please the Tribunal, I introduce that in order to show that the Jaegerstab meetings not always prove who was there at a certain given time and those meetings changed so that as far as the defendant Milch is mentioned, this does not prove he was there ail of the time. I shall continue:
On page 11 of the German original: "Saur: Does the term "construction company" exist at all? I think it does exist. Diesing: We have construction companies with the Luftwaffe. Among them masons, slaters, window fitters etc. That is how we arrived at the term "construction company." We cannot again withdraw the construction companies which we have taken from Berlin.
For each building site we need approximately 100 skilled people, this on the basis of a fixed distribution key and we do not know where t o get them."
There was introduced by the prosecution and also presented an exhibit from this Jaegerstab conference where the term "construction company" was mentioned in such a way, those were companies of concentration camp inmates. This explains the term "construction" company clearly. I shall continue:
Page 18 of the German original: "Milch: Now we come to the question of foreign exchange. Here the Fuehrer has announced his consent that the requests of the Slovaks to purchase anti aircraft guns, etc. be complied with. Saur has reported orally how many anti aircraft guns have actually been finished and how far we have exceeded the program. This is a good and acceptable method for us."
This passage proves that the Slovaks and their government who had been sent to Germany in order to create foreign exchange, Slovak could buy anti-aircraft guns from Germany. The Slovaks were not slaves.
I shall then continue and go to the next exhibit, Exhibit No. 13, that is NOKW 336, the Jaegerstab meeting of the 17th of March 1944. That is on page 56 of the English document book. Did Your Honors find the passage?
Shorthand report concerning the fighter staff conference presided over by General Field Marshal Milch on Friday, the 17th of March 1944, at eleven o'clock at the Reich Air Ministry. Rage 8 of the original, the last part of it.
"Stobbe-Detleffsen"--this man was the chief of the construction department in the Speer Ministry, in the remarmament ministry-- "I want to raise the question as to how far we have gotten with the two engineering constructions planned for the works. The one is a construction scheme at Otmershausen, the second the construction at Kaufring, originally small-scale constructions. They were cancelled and I was informed that the manufacturing firm for Ottmers hausen has not been determined yet. But we need the producing firm if we want to develop this plan. It was also said that Kaufring had become doubtful once more. I want to stress the fact that we must at any rate be clear about the manufacturing firm for both works. Otherwise, delays will be as far-reaching as we have experienced them during the last months. Now the question arises: Perhaps one construction should go to Junkers or to Central Germany or to this firm or the other. This is not the way to get results with the firms. I have not yet received official information and my attitude is that I need works at Ottmersheusen and another at Kaufring, but I shall be glad to be otherwise informed.
"Milch: You are right. This must be decided at once. We have promised Daimler-Benz at the time that the destination would be told him on the 13th. It was not told him. The whole matter has not been cleared up to now.
"Saur: On our last inspection tour we gained the impression that the time had come to get a clear view on the following points: What have we ordered on the whole of final evacuation space, on how many did we start, what dates have we fixed, what orders remain? I am under the impression that we do two things separately, which ought to be done together. We have, of course, at every plant with very few exceptions determined also together with phase I, the decentralization above ground, also phase II, the transfer underground, at least in broad outlines.
Now come the two large scale constructions. They have in the meantime been definitely ordered by the Fuehrer for a minimum space of 600,000 sqm each. Since we are not in position, first of all because of our program and then again on account of supplies, to build two new works independent of the total number of works already planned, with a capacity of 800,000 sqm, (that means from 2,000 to 3,000 to 4,000 airplanes each) we have to get clear on phase 3 or 4 if we term the present stage phase 1, decentralization phase 2, the evacuation underground now carried out with single buildings phase 3 and those large scale constructions phase 4. It is therefore very difficult to decide today where the two large scale constructions should go to when one does not even know the following: What is being done in the two big projects, who is doing it, and whose means will be converted into the big construction projects according to plan? It seems evident that the big construction projects in the form which we have now secured within the Fighter Staff can be finished in an incredibly short time. But to obtain tool-making machinery of recent origin within this limit of time for such large scale projects is impossible.
"Milch: It is not necessary, either.
"Saur continues: Therefore this planning of large scale projects is to be planned under no circumstances as a clear phase 4, that is, independent of phase 3, but within the framework of phase 3. That means either a series of minor scale projects up to 100,000 some are eliminated or we have find another approach to these problems. I have, therefore, arrived at the conviction to approach things perhaps from two different angles. We had the impression in the Erla district that the conditions there were rather favorable and that one could perhaps make this Erla district, which, is some distance from the parent concern, one of the pillars of the large scale project A and that one could in this way first carry out a decentralized evacuation of Erla, but would then have the first large enterprise complete under shelter. According to my opinion, the second thing could be measured, however with great difficulty." That is not quite clear in the original.
"I am not quite clear on that point and shall therefore proceed with circumspection. Maybe Junkers could be considered with his exceedingly concentrated works which God grant may be spared for some time. But who knows whether they may not be smashed much sooner than we fear. With regard to the construction project for Junkers I am not quite sure whether we ought to change to concrete. I considered the possibility of amalgamating the project Anhydrit, which as far as I know in its final state will amount to 200,000 sqm with the project Mittelwerk if one dry a discussion on this subject will be possible. The Mittelwerk project amounting to almost 130,000 now and increasing to 200,000 in its final state is located in its immediate neighborhood, and I do not doubt that we might find a possibility of getting additional 200,000 sqm."
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, may I interrupt? What are you trying to prove by this long statement?
DR. BARG0LD: I want to prove, and that will come at the end, that the two great plannings here which were ordered by the Fuehrer, and according to the exhibit submitted by the Prosecution, he ordered Hungarian Jews to be assigned. I want to prove that one of these plans had been dropped, the plan Kaufring. This plan was dropped by the lighter Staff and later on a smaller plant was built there where Jewish workers were used. But this had nothing to do with the Fighter Staff anymore. The prosecution ins proved Only that at Ottmershausen 3,000 Jews had been used.
Of we read on, we will find that the decision was then taken. I want to Drove also that these plannings, if they were ordered by the Fuehrer, were not final and were not decided yet in a final way.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, it isn't clear to the Tribunal what connection there is between allocating the various plants, determining their size and what should be manufactured, and the use of slave labor. Does this tend to throw any light on that?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. The prosecution has alleged that these greet plants were made by slave labor, and I want to show that this plant in which, according to the allegations of the prosecution, Hungarian Jews were used, that this plant was not built by the Fighter Staff and that therefore the prosecution has not proved altogether that the Fighter Staff used Hungarian Jews.
The passage will show in a very short tine that concentration camp innates were not used. Let me read one page further on and you will see that.
THE PRESIDENT: The difficulty is that you are reading so much that has no bearing on the point that you are urging. For example, the number of square meters in a particular plant appears to us to have no relationship to the use of slave labor. Now perhaps somewhere in this document there is a reference to the use of slave labor. Is it necessary to read all the rest of it?
DR. BERGOLD: No, I didn't want to read the whole thing. For the time being I would like to show to the Tribunal that the Fighter Staff did not plan the construction works, but only issued the instructions as to what should be planned in what factory. I believe I have proved that so far and think the Tribunal understood that. Now I shall skip a few parts. I would have done that anyway, that is, to skip a few passages.
THE PRESIDENT: We approve of that.
DR. BERGOLD: On the same page I would like to read a final sentence down here at the bottom so that the Tribunal can understand that these figures mentioned were highly exaggerated. It is about in the middle of that particular paragraph which begins on page 12 of the original. It begins with "The following was very interesting for me: When we received the figures for the decentralized evacuation program carried out at present, building costs if 108 millions were submitted to us. When Herr Schlempp afterwards in the train made a more detailed calculation with his experts on the project comprising 600,000 sqm, it worked out to 100 millions. That means that perhaps we have to revise again cur own plans at hand drastically."
Then I shall proceed to the next page. I shall read the statement made by Stobbe-Detleffsen, the last five sentences of the German original, the question concerning the great construction works. It is shortly before Saur makes a certain statement.
"The question of the big works is s Very difficult one for us from the point of view of capacity. It alone requires another 25,000 workers. We reckon already now 100,000 men for the tasks of the Jaegerstab. The switch to some other work would constitute an inroad of unheard-of proportions into the remaining amament economy.
"Saur: 100,000 without Kammler."
He continues: "Including the manpower we give Kammler but without the people from concentration camps.
"Saur: It was clear to us from the beginning that 200,000 men will be switched over."
"To switch over" the way it is used, or the way it was used at the time, meant to take them out of one factory and put them in the other factory, from one work to the other work; that is, move them from one work to the other work.
The Prosecution has already read the next paragraph.
I would like to read on the following page, the last paragraph concerning the statement made by Milch. I shall begin on page 16 of the original:
"We have been ordered to carry out these two construction projects by the Fuehrer. If I take now a higher compression ratio and thus attain much higher figures, even this higher figure would not prevent us from having to deal with further shifting afterwards, besides concrete works and cave works, smaller other caves, tunnels, etc. It is now doubtless correct to ascertain (1) What has to be constructed (2) for whom has it to be constructed (3) where has it to be constructed. We have to distribute it in such a way that we can efficiently cope with manpower and all the other questions, power, transportation, etc."
Now page 17 of the original:
"Stobbe-Detleffsen: May I refer back to Ottmershausen and Kaufring. Both building areas have been chosen in such a way that the original project of 60,000 square meters can without difficulty be enlarged up to 600,000 square meters. I certainly believe that if we now depart from these building areas, and actually lock for a new spot, we shall have to take a loss of nearly a quarter of a year."
I am going to skip now to Saur.
"Sauar: It does not have to be situated near Erla, but the point is whether brains for leadership are at Erla. I would think it correct if one of the constructions, which definitely has become a big construction project, would be enlarged over the initial echelon of 60,000 square meters which we will have to discuss anyhow these next days. We cannot assume the responsibility to shift underground a power installation of 60,000 square meters.
"Stobbe-Detleffsen: In this case Ottmershausen, which is unquestionably the most favorable - would remain and we would put Kaufring into the reserve.
"Milch: If we enlarge Ottmershausen up to 600,000 square meters, which I would welcome, the second big works with 600,000 square meters cannot be in the same region but must be located elsewhere feb many reasons "Saur:
How far away from each other are the works?
(some one calls out, "60 kilometers".)
"Stobbe-Detleffsen: These big works cause transportation problems, housing problems, etc., to unheard of proportions.
Saur: One of these works can be put up."
Then their allocated interest was dropped. I shall proceed to the next exhibit, NOKW 347, this will belong to Exhibit No. 14 concerning a Jaeger Staff Conference dated 20 March 1944. It is the next page to the page that I just read. Your Honors may know that meeting superseded the meeting of the 25th of March where the defendant Milch had to hold a speech, if the court please, before the Masters and Engineers of the Luftwaffe, and the prosecution read several passages out of this particular conference. The point I would like to prove is why this conference took place, and what its purpose was. That is important because later on I Would like to prove out of what psychological reasons Milch made such a strong term, and used such strong terms after the meeting of 23 March. I quote:
"Saur: With this we can come to the fundamental issue. Herr Nobel, your task is to make suggestions in a few days, or at the latest in a few weeks as to what measures must be taken in order to bring the production in the Luftwaffe shipyards in this area up to the same output as in factories of a civilian type."
Those are factories of the Quartermaster general.
"I guarantee you that there are reserves to be mobilized, that it will be a joy. That is this we must employ stringent means is clear. The gentlemen will be amazed when I make my suggestions to you. The shipyards must, in part, go over into private hands.
"Nobel: For this purpose I have asked Fieldmarshal Milch to speak to the gentlemen of the responsible commands on Saturday. They must bring along with them the needed spirit, the rest we will surely got there.
"Milch: The chairman of an armament commission is suggesting that the airbase or shipyard-repair industry should be given into the hands of private enterprise.