That is why I ask at this time that additional time be granted me. If your Honors will be cooperative with me now,-- and on the understanding that my witnesses can be produced -- I think that immediate matters can be proceeded with much more rapidly, later. In a trial in Germany, the Defence cannot call witnesses, that has to be done by the Tribunal. And, in the IMT the Tribunal, there, also, took it upon itself to call all of the witnesses; they took care of that matter; calling them by judges, from other countries, and they were brought to Nurnberg. I have not found time, nor have I been in a position, to do that. Since the witness TEICK, the medical officer for the Defendant is in the British Zone, in Berlin, and not here, he must be brought here and I have no power to do that; that has all to be done by others. I am powerless; I have applied to the SecretaryGeneral and he has so told me that he will do everything he can to assist me in getting the witnesses here, but still they are not here today.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, if you had been permitted the right to call a witness and you know that the witness is available you have the assurance that the witnesses will be produced when you need them, have you not?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, to be sure.
THE PRESIDENT: Are you not assured then?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, but the witness should come as quickly as possible; Your Honor, I have to speak to him; I must see him here in the court him self so that I may ask him questions to be sure that when I question him he would not be able to answer; that would take an enormous amount of the court's time and, therefore, it is necessary that we have to speak to him in advance. As we learned in the IKT, the witness have to take time to come; unless I can get a chance to talk to the witnesses, as I say, it would take a great many days of time as well as the court's time.
THE PRESIDENT: You understand, of course, Dr. Bergold, that the prosecution is confronted with every much the same sort of difficulties as confront you, and even the prosecution cannot instantly produce a witness out of thin air, just because the prosecution wishes to call that witness; isn't that true, Dr. Bergold?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, Your Honor, that is true. I am simply drawing a picture of my dilemma, of my position; I am not drawing or making reproaches toward the court. All of my main witnesses -- none of them are here -- I have only a few of my minor witnesses available. During the last few days only a few of my witnesses arrived here. As I stated, I simply want to draw before the Tribunal a picture of the position in which I find myself and I assure, Your Honor, we are doing everything we can. We began to read the documents from the first trial; I took a first series of a lot of important facts; I require a new document book. Your Honors, it is really beyond my capacity within my time limit to do that. It so happens that the defendant knows absolutely nothing about medicine, and I myself know nothing.
The documents must be read; the objections which were raised, must be examined and only after we have done that, do we recognize what the issue is. It is impossible to attempt to carry on, to proceed with two trials at once.
THE PRESIDENT: I am going to ask you again, Dr. Bergold, whether or not you have some documents assembled that you are ready to present to the court this morning?
DR. BERGOLD: Your Honor, I did have, and do not have some documents, but if I present them now I should be presenting them out of context and I do not wish to do that.
THE PRESIDENT: What do you mean "out of context"?
DR. BERGOLD: These are documents which relate to business of the prosecution--which are to serve to eliminate exonerating statements of the witnesses and which are to present certain statements. If I present these documents now, I should be presenting them out of context; I don't wish to do that.
THE PRESIDENT: I think perhaps you underate the ability of the court to put them in their proper context.
DR. BERGOLD: No, Your Honor, we are all human, and whatever is presented out of context, first of all an explanation is necessary.
THE PRESIDENT: Judicial experience enables one to assemble the various items of proof and put them in their proper pidgeonholes, even if they are not presented in logical order. I think we are quite capable of doing that, and if the documents which are ready, can be submitted, you can trust the court to put them in their proper environment, with testimony or other documents.
DR. BERGOLD: I am afraid about it. Perhaps it may be possible so to do, but in so doing it might also lead to some rather absurd consequences. But I still need further time for my preparations.
I absolutely need this week for which I have asked. Whether I received it today or tomorrow really doesn't make much difference but I do need it. I assure you that I do not want to drag out this trial. The situation is such that it is really an enormous task. You, as Judges, are still in a somewhat more easy position that I am. You have the material submitted to you -- I must laboriously assemble it.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Court will take a few minutes to retire and consider your application.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Dr. Bergold, in your general remarks you made a comparison between the American and German method of preparation for a trial and you indicated that an American lawyer has a greater facility in seeking witnesses and in speaking with them, and then you said that a German lawyer is somewhat circumscribed in his method of approach.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Well, certainly you are not being denied an opportunity in this trial, are you, to speak with witnesses, to seek them out, to talk with them? Are you being ....
DR. BERGOLD: That didn't come through entirely clearly - your remarks
THE PRESIDENT: Ask him the question again.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: Are you being limited or circumscribed in any way in your efforts to seek witnesses, to speak with them, or to prepare them for presentation in court?
DR. BERGOLD: Yes. In general, in Germany it is forbidden to speak to a witness before the trial. That is most unusual. The usual procedure is that it usually happens that the witness is approached here. However, that is not your concern, that concerns the Tribunal and so on. This is a difficulty that does stand in our way in Germany. In a German trial I would have made myself culpable if I spoke to a witness before the trial. I would be banned from the bar if I did that. This is the difference.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: But you certainly understand that the Tribunal will allow you that liberty and will certainly protect you in any difficulties that might arise in your associations with your colleagues or with the German courts?
DR. BERGOLD: Certainly I understand that. But the mentality of the witnesses who know this is, of course, very limited. However, I have no opportunity to question the witnesses myself. If I write to a witness that he should come he doesn't have to come and mostly usually he does not come because he is afraid of other people. That is the consequence of the moral collapse that has taken place in Germany. However, if the Tribunal does not bring the witness here for me I am helpless.
JUDGE MUSSMANO: I merely wanted to assure you that the Tribunal will not hold you to any strict accountability in so far as the German rules are concerned.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: The Court will retire for just a few minutes to consider the application of the Counsel and will return to announce its decision.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: Dr. Bergold, you have some apprehension that this Tribunal ....
DR. BERGOLD: (interrupting): Excuse me. No interpreter.
THE PRESIDENT: You express some apprehension that this Tribunal will be unduly persuaded or influenced by some possible determination in Tribunal I. We want to assure you that our decision will be based entirely upon the testimony that we hear in this court room - entirely independent of any other determination.
DR. BERGOLD: Yes, I understand that. But my argument runs along the following lines; In this first trial there are proofs being submitted which are not at my disposal because I cannot speak to those people who are suitable to submit exonerating material and who also would be suitable to make exonerating statements for this trial. That is my argument. That these exonerating evidences are not in a position to be submitted. In due course, because only in course of time it will be possible to submit them. My colleagues in the other case do not give them to me because they are jealous and because they want to submit the evidence themselves. I cannot learn them until after they have been submitted upstairs.
The defendants upstairs also are not inclined to tell everything to me because they are afraid that the defense upstairs will be impeded. That is the difficulty and the anxiety I have, not that the high Tribunal will be swayed in some manner or other. That is not my fear, but only that exonerating materials will not be available to me because it is not being submitted upstairs and consequently will not be known to me. Milch does not understand anything and he cannot tell it to me. I do not understand anything about medicine either.
THE PRESIDENT: The consequence of your suggestion is that this trial be delayed until the conclusion of the testimony at least in Tribunal I?
DR. BERGOLD: No. I only want to have time because much has been submitted already, at least some important things, I should like to submit. Not everything but some. Naturally, I cannot suspend the trial until the other one is finished. I understand that. But some of the important material is coming out now only because the defense is beginning in a few days and only then I'll learn it and I can submit it. Did I express myself intelligently?
THE PRESIDENT: We understand. The Court is going to insist that you present the documents which you have already assembled and which are translated through the diligent efforts of the Translation Division and are here before the Court. I want to assure you that the Court can properly allocate and separate these documents and attach them to their proper place in the chain of proof, especially with your help. I suggest that when a witness is called to whose testimony these documents pertain that a mere suggestion by you that the Court refer to Document such and such a number in connection with that witness' testimony will be sufficient for your protection. We're not a jury and we're not so easily confused perhaps by the complexities of proof as a jury might be, and with your skilled help I am sure we'll be able to keep the proof in order in our minds. If you will present the documents which you have available now the Court will then announce its decision as to your request for an adjournment until next Monday.
DR. BERGOLD: Which decision, if the President please?
THE PRESIDENT: I'll state it differently. Please proceed now to offer the documents which you have in court.
DR. BERGOLD: If the Tribunal please, I should like to submit an informal question.
In my document book there are a number of documents which I took from the documents submitted by the Prosecution. Inasmuch as these documents are in the possession of the Prosecution and in part have already been submitted I cannot submit them as evidence and I can only read from them. How, informally speaking, is the submission of evidence as such to take place? Will it be sufficient that I make reference to these documents which are in the possession of the Prosecution or do I have to obtain them from the Prosecution?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Denney, you might explain the Modus Operandi to Dr. Bergold.
MR. DENNEY: If your Honors please, I am not sure that I understand what Dr. Bergold is referring to.
DR. BERGOLD: The minutes of the Central Planning Board.
MR. DENNEY: We have relied on certain extracts of certain Central Planning Board minutes. If what Dr. Bergold submits in this document book and at a later time comes from minutes which he have presented to the Court why then of course we see no reason for resubmitting the material which is already in evidence. However, if he is going to take other meetings or material from meetings which we have used but which material specifically has not been presented by us then I submit that he should prepare his documents just as we have and offer them in evidence in the usual way.
THE PRESIDENT: I think he is concerned with authenticating the documents. That is, with proving the identity of the documents. Is that right, Dr. Bergold?
DR. BERGOLD: In the first place, that's right, and in the second place I do not receive these documents. They are not given to me. I am only permitted to read them. I merely may see them in the office of Lieutenant Garrett but I am not permitted to take them out. Consequently I cannot take them and submit them to Milch.
THE PRESIDENT: Have you made copies of them?
DR. BERGOLD: In my document book I do have copies.
THE PRESIDENT: Doesn't that answer it? The documents here before the Court are copies or originals now in the hands of the Prosecution. There is no question as to their authenticity - as to their identity.
MR. DENNEY: In so far as I am concerned I haven't seen any of these he proposes to offer until this morning. I was just reading the index and it says R-124 which was taken from the minutes which we have submitted.
THE PRESIDENT: Every document bears the number given to it by the Prosecution?
MR. DENNEY: On the ones which are here, Your Honor. There are some which do not have numbers. Pages 11, 13 and 16, for example, and Pages 1 and 2. I certainly want to cooperate with Dr. Bergold in every way I can. So far, except for the ones noted, there is certainly no objection to them. I won't know until I see them.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, let's go ahead. We'll assume that these documents are authentic. At least these are copies of authentic documents. If there arises any objection on that ground we'll hear it when it comes up.
DR. BERGOLD: Thank you.
I have read from my document book, page 6 of the German edition. I cannot yet say what page of the English edition it will be because the English translation was given to me only a few minutes before the opening of the session this morning. Consequently I could not make a comparison as yet.
THE PRESIDENT: If you will give us the document number we can find it.
DR. BERGOLD: Page 6, R 124, "Minutes of the Change of the Working Contract of 20 February 1942."
THE PRESIDENT: Let's give this an exhibit number.
DR. BERGOLD: This is Exhibit Milch 1, Page 8 of the English Document Book. Berlin, 20 February 1942. Points of discussion on trip to Fuehrer Headquarters on 19 February 1942, from pages 7 and 8 of original. I want to show that the Defendant Milch endeavored to obtain for the foreign workers the best possible conditions, especially as regards their wage. It reads:
""Upon suggestion of Field Marshal Milch the Fuehrer determines that the six-month commitments for foreign workers must be dropped and that the contradictory tax regulations must be rescinded; on the contrary, agreements are to be made according to which in the case of employment of longer duration (exceeding six months) bonus payments of some kind will be made once, particularly as there will be the appropriate saving of the cost of travel back and forth."
This will show that when speaking of contracts, a contract generally is a voluntary agreement and not compulsory. Then I submit -
THE COURT: Just a moment. You may proceed.
DR. BERGOLD: On the following page R124, the Fuehrer minutes on a suggestion made by Speer on the treatment of foreign workers, dated 8 January 1942, Exhibit No. 2, page 8 of the English Document Book. Berlin, 8 January 1943. Points of discussion from the Fuehrer Interview of 3, 4, 5 January 1943. On Page 16, Speer -- this was a meeting between Speer and the Fuehrer -
"The Fuehrer demands unequivocally that in no case must it be permitted that France be less burdened than Germany. Germany must sacrifice her blood for this war. We must demand of France that she contribute more fully economically than hitherto. Should any indication of resistance arise in the case of French labor employed, such labor will be deported if necessary as civilian internees. At the slightest attempt of sabotage the most rigorous measures must be taken. Softness of any kind, for humanitarian reasons, is out of place. The Fuehrer agrees with my suggestion," says Speer, "that on all questions pertaining to the exploitation of the industrial power of France in behalf of armament, matters will be conducted directly by the Ministry for Armament and Munition."
When it says in the case of resistance offered, deportation as civilian internees, that is to say that if there is any attempt made in France of armed resistance, then the people should be seized and deported as civilian internee This does not contradict the firm conviction which demands compliance with the orders given by the occupation power.
The following document is Document 407 II PS, dated 10 March 1943 to the Fuehrer. Page 9 of the English document, Exhibit 3. I want to show by it that Sauckel left all agencies in ignorance and how he went ahead and used methods which were not proper. It is dated 10 March 1943, teletype.
"To the Fuehrer, Fuehrer's Headquarters, with the urgent request to be submitted to the Fuehrer in person immediately for a decision.
"Subject: Difficulties originating from drafted labor in former Soviet Territories.
"My Fuehrer, You may be assured that the labor assignment is being pushed by me with fanatical will but also with circumspection and with due consideration for economical and technical as well as human necessities and conditions "Replacement for soldiers who will be relieved and the stockpiling of additional labor needed for the armament programs can and will be carried through, notwithstanding the fact that especially during the last two winter months the greatest difficulty had to be overcome.
Yet it was possible to make for January and February alone 258,000 foreign workers available to the war economy despite the fact that in the East transports practically ceased. The employment of German men and women is in full progress. Inasmuch as the difficulties of the winter months will now increasingly disappear and as preparations were made by me also the transports from the East can again be resumed in full measure. Although the yield of the registration and employment of German men and women is excellent, the employment of the strongest and most efficient foreigners who are used to work cannot be neglected.
"Unfortunately, some of the Commanders-in-Chief in the East have prohibited the compulsory enrolment of men and women in the conquered Soviet territories for -- as Gauleiter Koch informs me -- political reasons.
"My Fuehrer, in order to enable me to carry out my assignment, I ask that these orders be rescinded.
I consider it entirely impossible that the population of former Soviet nationality could be accorded a greated measure of consideration than our German people on whom I have been forced to place very drastic measures. Should it no longer be possible to enforce the compulsion to work in the East, nor to draft labor, then the German war economy and agriculture will likewise be able no longer to fulfill their tasks in full measure.
"I myself am of the opinion that under no circumstances should the commanders of our armies give credence to the Bolshevist propaganda of atrocities and defamation. After all, it is to the interest of the generals themselves that replacements for the troops be made in opportune time.
"I take permission to point out that -- without wishing to discredit their best will -- it is impossible to put German women entirely inexperienced in work -- into the place of hundreds of thousands of excellent workers who now have to go to the front as soldiers. It must be possible for me to replace them with people from the Eastern territories.
"I myself report to you that all the members of foreign nations who are working with us are being satisfactorily treated according to human standards; tnat they are being treated correctly and fairly; they are being fed, housed, yes, even clothed. Because of my own experience in the service of foreign nations I am even bold enough to claim that never before have foreign workers been so decently treated anywhere in the world as is being done by the German people during this the hardest of all wars.
"I therefore ask you, my Fuehrer, to cancel orders which prevent the enrolment of foreign male and female workers and to kindly advise me whether my concept of the assignment as laid down herein still is correct.
"I ask your permission to report to you in person on several important points of the labor recruitment early next week, possibly on Tuesday.
"In lasting gratitude, loyalty and obedience, Fritz Sauckel."
Which proves that until March, 1943, he was the commander in charge of foreign labor and that it was Sauckel and he alone who demanded it because he was of the opinion that foreign people had to do and produce the same as the German people.
It is further important that he didn't declare that to the Fuehrer only, but also to the Defendant Speer and the Defendant Milch, which the Defendant Speer later on will attest, that never were foreign workers treated so fairly by any other people. In other works, he lied to the men who were to work with him.
I now turn to No. R-124, the Fuehrer minutes of September 14. This will be Exhibit No. 4, page No. 10 in this document book. I am reading figures 16 and 18 of the minutes.
"Fuehrer conference of 11/12 September 1943, from Page 7 of the original. Detleffson: 16) The Fuehrer brings up the subject of the Luftwaffe production and the discussions with Messerschmitt and he asks for my personal intervention with the Reich Marshal and Field Marshal Milch to cut down appreciably the construction of airplane types."
This is important because later the defendant will show that he encountered difficulties in the construction of fighters because the Fuehrer wanted to have bombers, while Milch wanted to have fighters for defensive protection of Germany.
18) The Fuehrer is displeased that the long range flight of Messerschmitt planes has not yet been taken by the Luftwaffe -
THE COURT: Dr. Bergold, you did not read 17.
DR. BERGOLD: No. I am omitting it because it is unimportant, just the connection between the two sections I gave in copying it.
"The Fuehrer is displeased that the long range flight of Messerschmitt planes has not yet been taken by the Luftwaffe. Messerschmitt is said to have been unable to obtain the support of aviation for it."
This again shows another attitude on the part of the Fuehrer. I am then omitting several exhibits, because I must prepare them. The next one is 124, minutes of the 11th meeting of Central Planning of 22 July 1942. It will be Exhibit No. 5, Page 15 of the English Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: The interpreter said "June."
DR. BERGOLD: IT is July, the seventh month.
"Safeguarding of Food Supplies:
"A net increase of one million foreign workers is anticipated. This figure has not been reached during the past months. Even if more than one million workers are brought here during the months to come, the limit of one million will never be exceeded due to continued losses. Food for this number of workers is guaranteed."
This proves obligations were fulfilled.
The next exhibit is on the following page. Here we have minutes of the 22nd meeting of Central Planning. It is dated November 2, 1942. It will be Exhibit Number 6. It is Page 16 of the English Document.
"Extract from the Stenographic Record of the 22nd Conference of the "Central Planning" concerning Assignment of Labor, Monday, 2 November 1942, 1200 o'clock in the Reich Ministry for Aviation.
"MILCH: In my opinion agriculture has to be provided with its changeover. If, theoretically, agriculture had been given 100,000 more men, there would be 100,000 fairly well-fed men, while those we get now, particularly the prisoners of war, are not exactly fit for work. If agriculture will get them in time, they will again be able to feed those people well. However, it will not be very happy about it."
This document shows that Milch took care and saw that the people who worked were properly fed. If they worked in agriculture, they would be better fed than the other people in Germany. Consequently, everybody in Germany went out to the country because they could get better food.
The next document will be R-124; minutes of a conference on 12 February 1943. This will be Exhibit Number 7.
THE PRESIDENT: What is the date of the meeting?
DR. BERGOLD: It is the 32nd Conference. It is Page 16 of the English Document Book. It is Exhibit Number 7.
"Extract from the Stenographic Record of the 32nd Conference of the "Central Planning" of the Four-Year Plan."
I will turn now to the last paragraph of the original document.
"MILCH: Everybody sticks to his old methods until he is literally beaten away from them. However, one must not only beat, one must give advice too. They must be good experts who will tell people: You will do that this way or that; it is not necessary that you use just this sum. Who does such a thing will never give in and say I can do with less. Mining has been partly beaten into iron by saying we cannot give you anything but iron on account of the shortage of lumber."
This document shows that the Defendant liked to use strong language. It refers merely to the allocation. He speaks of "beating" figuratively. The High Tribunal will remember at one time he spoke of whips being used to force certain people to use suggested methods. That is not what he meant.
The next document is again R-124. These are the minutes of the 33rd Conference, 16 February 1943. This will be Exhibit Number 8. It is on Page 17 of the English Document Book.
"Extract from the Shorthand Report of the 33rd Conference of Central Planning, 16 February 1943. Page 16 of the original.
"SPEER: We are in complete agreement. You will not receive any list from us for this action, but the whole armament industry including the anticipated deliveries will be devoted to this action. The administration too must be served at the same time. But the authorities including Army, Air and Navy, shall not get a single person from the action. This must be adhered to. You know what the Reich Minister, Dr. Lammers, said: That he must therefore have some new women typists at the Reich Chancellery at once. That makes no sense.
"MILCH: Where France is concerned, there exists in France an industry which makes aircraft motors and parts, all complete. We have transferred there all the things which can be made there without endangering secrecy in any way. These are training aircraft, transport aircraft, etc. However, since we want to make the most of the production in other ways, we have moved away part of it to a large extent. As a whole, these things must be kept secret from the French, but in every entity subject to secrecy, there are only a few parts which are really secret.
The bulk consists of other parts. These have also gone there to a great extent, just as we engaged aircraft builders in France to a great extent. We now currently have work waiting in France for several thousand aircraft builders. At the moment the industry working for us there needs, according to its claims, some 20m000 men, who are asked of us, in order to be able to keep to the program. The production is still far behind that which was agreed upon with you in the program. Whereas we in Germany fully carry out our program, only 30 per cent of it is carried out in France. In fact it has only begun to function in the last weeks and months after we have been more active there. In principle, we have excluded the State from this whole cooperation with industry and set the German firms to work with the French firms.
"Sponsor firms have been appointed so as to make the affair operate. This system is not yet fully completed but has been favorably initiated everywhere and indeed brings quite other returns in some extent. The reproach is always made to us that nearly all Europe is at our disposal. The production we draw from France, with the exception of motor cars, is minute as regards the Army. The whole French production potential is not yet fully exploited by us or only to a quite small proportion.
"If it were necessary for us to produce in France, because in Germany the capacity, space, machine tools, etc., which are not convenient for removal are lacking, if the accommodation of the people were not so difficult, etc., we would, in fact, be reduced to the point of taking everything to Germany and have the work done here. But this would entail too great a decrease in the production in our own country, not to mention the reluctance of the people. We came to an agreement yesterday. I am very thankful that this matter is now, thanks to yourself, Gauleiter Sauckel, together with Gen. v. d. Heyde and Colonel Brueckner, to be settled on the spot. It is difficult to induce Frenchmen to come over here. An official agency alone cannot either appreciate or realize this, only a sponsoring firm can realize it. I therefore suggest that sponsor firms be called upon to cooperate, precisely because in France the sub-contract system is very widespread.
"Behind the factory which actually organized the thing, there are other factories which belong to the semi-finished goods and preparatory industry. This industry, however, can be supervised by our sponsor industries. We should have to assign to our people the task of investigating the individual firms and find out which people are working for our program. All others we annex ourselves. When we have got hold of them and annex them in German industry, that is, only those people who are really necessary to us, it will be possible to utilize them in the right way. The proportion of specialist workers there is higher than in this country. We have indeed drained a certain number of them into our factories last year because they were the easiest to get. The Frenchmen must work with more specialists than the Russian and the Russian must have still more specialists than the American In America they can place any simpleton before any machine. He will put it right in a flash. Only the installation requires a specialist. The man need only have arms; a head is a superfluous luxury. In France the system is quite different. The Frenchman has adapted himself to it and has always indeed had unemployment. A labor organization as we conceive does not exist. With the same number of Frenchmen and all other installations, facilities, etc., being the same, one will only obtain, as compared with German personnel half at the most or only one-third of the production, even if the personnel have all good will and zeal. It is a matter of system. This system we cannot simply alter, neither can the sponsor firms, but we must try in this way to obtain from them to a certain extent the additional resources which we need for our industry and armament. By proceeding thus, we can put things right. I believe the sponsor firms have an obvious interest in this. If industry has too many specialist workers there working for us, let us draw upon them ourselves, because we are suffering a great shortage of them.
"This resource should be left to our firms after this extensive drain on specialist workers has been suffered. We want to raise our armament. Now to another point. I have today ordered in my jurisdiction that an extensive action should take place; today, when we are counting upon obtaining a great number of women in virtue of the obligatory service whose age limit we hope to see extended to 55.
The British have extended obligatory service to the age of 65. The additional ten years are a trifle exaggerated. Women are not able to go the machines immediately and perform heavy work. The few days that are necessary for them to instruct the personnel are immaterial. We can still spare that much time if it were not that I would convey to the population an impress to the following effect: Now that we have reported for work, it is months before we are called up.
"I have ordered, within my jurisdiction, that the woman should as much as possible be employed in offices where men are now to be found, for instances, in the wages offices, etc. In these, women and elderly men can be easily trained, as they will be able to do without further difficulty. In this way, men in the commercial offices, etc., should be released for the accountancy offices and similar offices. This involves, in the case of industry, 20,000 individuals and there are other branches besides. It amounts to quite a considerable number consisting solely of people who, in view of the war economy, are unfortunately necessary now. These men must now be placed at our machines insofar as they are not drafted, that is to say, they are not soldiers. These people are more likely to be able to render good service at the machines or in the factories than the women now assigned, insofar as women are disposed to go to the machines. Of course, there will be women who have done such work before and who are willing to turn to this work, but who have not reported for work so far because they have not found it necessary to work for a living on account of the dole. Where the assistance of women is concerned, I should suggest, that, in the process of the action, only those women be assigned for whome work at the machine is not involved if a man is thereby released.
"TIMM: The danger lies in this that the draftees were partly to be released without replacement having actually been forthcoming.
"FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: That is quite another matter. When female auxiliaries of the Signal Corps are assigned, it is not additionally, but only in the proportion that soldiers are released thereby. There are indeed several 100,000 men in the signal corps of the army and air force. In our department, 250 to 300,000 have been such. Whether there are many now, I do not know.
They are all young men fit for combat. I have always campaigned against this and said: One ought to assign women preferably so as to release soldiers. If that is done now, it will really release a large number, it does not matter whether for the workshop or of the front.
"Of course there is a front somewhere in the East too. This front will be maintained for a certain time. The only useful thing the Russians will inherit from the territories evacuated by us will be the people. It might be better in principle to withdraw the population as far as 100 km behind the front. The whole civilian population will move back to 100 kilometers behind the front. Nobody will now be assigned to ditchdigging.
"TIMM: We tried to withdraw the population of Kharkow. 90,000 to 120,000 people were required by the fortress commandant of Kharkow for trench work so that in some cases we had to organize whole convoys.
"WEGER: Successful blowing-up operations were even carried out.
"FIELD MARSHAL MILCH: But that is done by the engineer corps. There is definitely no more hope that more prisoners of war will come from the East.
SAUCKEL: The prisoners taken are used there.
DR. BERGOLD: Just a minute, I am short one page from my old document book. From one of the pages I am in the wrong place, and I shall read the one page which was supposed to be right. Consequently that is the reason why you lost the context before. It was my mistake. I am sorry. Now I'll have to cover it. Before that it said on the one page--two pages before that one I just read in the same number of the same document, and the same interlineation. That is on page 18 of the Document Book. I will read:
"With the same number of Frenchmen and all other installations, facilities, etc. being the same, one will only obtain, as compared with German personnel, half at the most or only one-third of the production, even if the personnel have all good will and zeal. It is a matter of system. This system we can not simply alter, neither can the sponsor firms, but we must try in this way to obtain from them to a certain extent the additional resources which we need for our industry and armament. By proceeding thus, we can put things right. I believe the sponsor firms have an obvious interest in this. If industry has too many specialist workers there working for us, lot us draw upon them ourselves because we are suffering a great shortage of them. This resource should be left to our firms after this extensive drain on specialist workers has been suffered. We want to raise our armament. Now to another point.
I have today ordered in my jurisdiction that an extensive action should take place; today, when we are counting upon obtaining a great number of women in virtue of the obligatory service whose age limit we hope to see extended to 55. The British have extended obligatory service to the age of 65. The additional 10 years are a trifle exaggerated. Women are not able to go to the machines immediately and perform heavy work. The few days that are necessary for them to instruct the personnel are immaterial. We can still spare that much time if it were not that it would convey to the population an impression to the following effect: Now that we have reported for work, it is months before we are called up. I have ordered, within my jurisdiction, that the women should as much as possible be employed in offices where men are now to be found, for instance in the wages offices, etc. In these, women and elderly men can be easily trained, as they will be able to do without further difficulty.
In this way, men in the commercial offices, etc. should be released for the accountancy offices and similar offices. This involves, in the case of industry, over 20,000 individuals, and there are other branches besides. It amounts to quite a considerable number consisting solely of people who, in view of the war economy, are unfortunately necessary now. These men must now be placed in our machines insofar as they are not drafted, that is, to say, not soldiers. These people are more likely to be able to render good service at the machines, or in the factories than the women now assigned, insofar as women are disposed to go to the machines. Of course, there will be women who have done such work before, and who are now willing to turn to this work, but who have not reported for work so far because they have not found it necessary to work for a living on account of the dole. Where the assignment of women is concerned, I should suggest that, in the process of the action, only these women be assigned for whom work at the machine is not involved, if a man is thereby released."
Now I can make a jump to the page I had read once before. Yes, and I shall then skip one page and continue, "We have made the request--," that is on page 20 in the Document Book:
"We have made the request that there should be a certain percentage of Russians with us in the anti-aircraft artillery. 50,000 altogether are expected. 30,000 are already there as gunners. It is a funny thing that Russians must operate the guns. The other 20,000 are still missing. I received a letter from the Supreme Command of the Army yesterday saying: we can no longer turn over a single one, we have too few ourselves. So this thing will not turn out so successfully for us.