MR. BERGOLD: If it please the Tribunal, in regard to my previous objection, the defendant tells me he knows very well that he gave that reply, but evidently this reply was not taken down in the minutes. At the time I could not check up on it. The minutes were never shown to him again, nor did he sign them. He cannot recognize the completeness of the reply.
THE PRESIDENT: You are referring now to the interrogatives?
MR. BERGOLD: Yes.
MR. McMAHON: Your Honor, this interrogation was conducted in the customary manner; the minutes were taken down by a German court stenographer, and if the Court wishes, I think we can reproduce the sound track of this recording; but, as far as we know it is complete, and the original shows just what I have read.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is content to await testimony in accordance with Mr. Bergold's contention that this transcript is not complete. Let's have that first; then, if required, we can make further inquiry as to whether or not it is complete.
MR. BERGOLD: Thank you.
MR. McMAHON: The prosecution will now offer in evidence Document No. 269, which will be offered as Prosecution's Exhibit No. 118, and it appears on page 179 of the English Document Book, and page 174 of the German Document Book. This is a letter dated 27 November 1942 from G. Wolff, written on behalf of Himmler to Milch, and repeating Himmler's plea that Rascher be released from the Luftwaffe so that he can be transferred to a permanent assignment with the Waffen SS. Here is a letter informing Milch of the difficulties Rascher is experiencing in the Luftwaffe medical circles because of the low standards of the other Luftwaffe physicians. It constitutes additional proof of the fact that Milch was informed of the conflict going on in the Luftwaffe over the experiments of Dr. Rascher, and of the fact that remained in Milch's power to release Rascher or to put an end to his criminal experiments if Milch were so moved. The letter is dated 27 November 1942.
THE PRESIDENT: On the copy it appears to be 21 November.
MR. McMAHON: We have corrected it from the original Your Honor and it should be 27 November.
It reads as follows: "Highly esteemed Herr Fieldmarshal, My dear Party comrade Milch. You will remember that by order of the Reichsfuehrer SS I solicited your special interest in the work of an SS Leader Dr. Rascher, who is a physician, commissiined for the duration, with the Luftwaffe. The research, which is concerned with the reaction of the human organism at great heights and with the symptoms brought on by cooling the human body by immersing it for immersing it for a longer period in cold water and similar problems particularly necessary for the Luftwaffe, can be carried out especially efficiently in our organization because the Reichsfuehrer SS himself who is not associated with the Luftwaffe has accepted the responsibility for supply death-deserving as social persons and criminals from the concentration camps for these experiments. Unfortunately, you had no time recently when Mr. Rascher intended to give a lecture at the Aviation Ministry. The Reichsfuehrer SS would have set great hopes on the, because after having been informed yourself you would certainly have intervened and eliminated the great difficulties encountered by Mr. Rascher in his work. The difficulties are still the same as before. In the medical circles of the Luftwaffe they are of the opinion that it is natural for a young German flyer to risk his life, but that the life of a criminal, who is not conscripted into the army, is too sacred for that, and that they cannot sully their reputation by that. It is interesting that they demand the credit for the results of the experiments, while excluding the scientist who made them. The Reichsfuehrer SS himself has looked at these experiments and has-I can say this without exaggerating -- participated in every phase of this scientific work, aiding and also stimulating it. He does not wish now that you and he should become angry about this development. He is of the opinion that it will take at least another decade until we eliminate such narrow-mindedness from our people.
Our physician will keep you personally posted about the research necessary; our young and excellent soldiers must, however, not suffer thereby. The Reichsfuehrer SS, therefore, requests you to release Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher from the Luftwaffe and to transfer him to the Waffen SS. The Reichsfuehrer SS will then, on his own responsibility, arrange for all experiments in this field and make the results, which we in the SS need only in part namely for the cases of freezings in the East, completely available to the Luftwaffe. Here he suggests that you assign to me a really object physician, who furthermore is in a 464 (a) position to keep you personally posted about the research.
The Reichsfuehrer SS believes that this arrangement -- Dr. Rascher's transfer to the SS, so that he can carry out the experiments under the Reichsfuehrer's responsibility and orders -- is the best way. In any case these experiments must not be stopped, we owe that to our men. If Dr. Rascher remains in the Luftwaffe, there will certainly be many annoyances, because the Reichsfuehrer would then have to inform you of a number of unpleasant details which, so far as can be judged from the course of the experiments to date, would also occur in the future. Professor Holzloehner especially plays a role here. In order to save you and him a lot of trouble the Reichsfuehrer SS requests you to transfer Dr. Rascher to the Waffen SS as quickly as possible. The Reichsfuehrer SS would also be very grateful if you would order that the low-pressure chamber be made available again, along with differential vacum pumps (Stufenaggregatpumpen) as the experiments are to be extended to cover oven greater heights. Best regards and, Heil Hitler. Signed G. Wolff."
MR. BERGOLD: May it please the Tribunal, may I ask to give instructions to the Prosecution as to where this document came from that was read just now -- whether it came from the collection of Himmler or just where it was taken from.
MR. MC MAHON: This document, Your Honors, was taken from the files of Himmler.
MR. BERGOLD; Thank you. May it please the Tribunal, may I now make use of this letter to clarify the question discussed yesterday with reference to the so-called Himmler letter to Milch, in behalf of which the Court yesterday decided to suspend the subject so that I may clarify it. May I ask the Tribunal to examine document 1633 in your document book, Exhibit No. 111, on page 145 of your document book. Kindly take it and you will see by it, that the letter by Himmler, as written by Wolff, is almost word for word, identically the same, with the sole difference that Himmler's letter says he had done so and so, and in the letter of Wolff's he referred to what Himmler had done.
The comparison of the two letters, in my opinion, will easily show that they are absolutely identical, and consequently the 465 (a) letter of Himmler remains a draft which was never sent out, that rather Himmler evidently ordered Wolff to write this letter for him Himmler to Milch.
TEE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal notes your comments Doctor Bergold, and it is a matter of argument which does not affect the admissibility of the letters. You may draw whatever inference you wish from the exhibit, but the Court will admit both of them.
MR. BERGOLD: I am sorry, Your Honor, but I thought that had been ruled on, the question of the admissibility of Document 111, and that the question of its admission was to be decided at a later date. Did I misunderstand that?
THE PRESIDENT: No, that is correct.
MR. MC MAHON: I would like to say, Your Honors, in regard to that letter that it should be admitted insofar as it tends to show Himmler's feelings toward Milch, and the fact that he considered Milch as the all important man in the Luftwaffe insofar as these experiments were concerned. In other words, I think this letter should be admitted, not necessarily intending to prove that this matter was sent to Milch, but it constitutes proof of Himmler's attitude toward Milch, and that this later letter; just read, perhaps written under the copy which did got to Milch, and by which, he had full knowledge of Himmler's intentions in regard to these experiments.
THE PRESIDENT: Both exhibits will be admitted in evidence. It is to be assumed from that, that the Court finds, or does not find that the first communication from Himmler was received by Milch; it will be received in spite of the lack of proof of its actual delivery for other reasons.
MR. McMaHON: Yes, your Honor.
The prosecution will now offer NO-262, Exhibit No. 119, which is found on page 182 of the English Document Book and 176 of the German Document Book. This is a letter dated 6 March 1943 from Hippke to Wolff. Hippke maintained he is not opposed to chilling experiments on human beings and that, on the contrary, he is in favor of it. The letter reads:
"Dear Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff:
"The State Secretary Milch has given me your letter of 21 November of the last year -- Diary No. 1426-42 top secret -- regarding the release of the Stabsarzt of the Luftwaffe Dr. Rascher, to the Waffen-SS.
"I am prepared to release the Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher from the Luftwaffe, even after the Reich Physician of the SS, SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz explained to me that he could not find any substitute. I shall put him at the disposal of the Waffen-SS if Rascher himself desires this release. I shall ask him about that.
"Your conception thay I, as the responsible director of all medicalscientific research work, would have been opposed to the chilling experiments on human beings and so retarded their development is erroneous. I immediately agreed to the experiments, because our own previous experiments on large animals were concluded and supplementary work was necessary. It is also highly improbable that I, in that I am responsible for the development of all types of possibilities for rescuing our fliers would not do everything possible to further such works. When Rascher in his time explained his wishes to me, I agreed with him immediately. The difficulties Mr. Wolff, lie in an entirely different sphere: it is a question of vanity on the part of every one of whom personally wants to bring out new research results, and very often it is only with great effort that they can be led to work unselfishly for the common good. None of them is without guilt in this respect. Rascher is not either.
"If Rascher wants to build up his own research institute within the frame-work of the Waffen-SS, I have no objection. All research work within the field of aviation Medicine -- that is, altitude -- moreover, is under my scientific supervision in my capacity as director of German aviation medicine.
This institute would then be under the supervision of the Reich Physician of the SS, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz.
"Momentarily, however, this work cannot be carried on because its continuation would require a low-pressure chamber in which not only the altitude of the stratosphere, but also the stratospheric temperature can be established, but there is no such chamber available in German as yet. It is just being built as a general chamber in the frame-work of the new Research Institute for Aviation Medicine of Berlin, and I hope I shall be able to have it completed in the course of this year.
"If Rascher, on the other hand, wishes to conduct other experiments not concerned with altitude and chilling problems, these would not be under my supervision (aviation medicine) but under the supervision of the Hoerossanitaetsinspektor (military medicine), whom he would have to contact.
"I am going to talk over all these problems with Rascher in old comradeship, and I shall again notify you.
"With kind regards and signed Hippke."
The prosecution will now offer in evidence Document NO-268, which will he Prosecution Exhibit No. 120. This is on page 184 of the English and page 178 of the German Document Book. This is a letter dated 19 February 1943 from Hippke to Himmler, reporting on the results of the cold-water freezing experiments and mentioning the Luftwaffe conference of the 26th and 27th of October 1942 in Nurnberg, at which these experiments were discussed. Here we nave Hippke speaking for the Luftwaffe and expressing his thanks for the Reichsfuchrer SS's help in the experiments which were carried out for the benefit of the Luftwaffe. The letter reads:
"Reichsfuehrer:
"The experiments conducted in Dachau concerning protective measures against the effective freezing on the human body by immersion in cold water have lead to results of practical use. They were conducted by the Stabsarzte of the Luftwaffe Professer Dr. Holzloehner. Dr. Finke and Dr. Rascher in co-operation with the SS, and are now finished.
The result was reported upon by those who worked on them during a conference on medical problems arising from distress at sea and winter hardships on 26th and 27th October 1942 at Nurnberg. The detailed report on the coherence is at present in state of preparation.
"I thank you most gratefully for the great assistance that co-operation of the SS has meant for us in conducting the experiments, and beg you t c express our thanks, too, to the corm under of the Dachau camp.
"Heil Hitler signed, Prof.
Dr. Hippke."
The next document which the prosecution will offer in evidence is NO-448, which will be prosecution Exhibit No. 121 and is on page 185 of the English Document Book and page 179 of the German Document Book. This is an affidavit of Dr. Becker-Freyseng, who was a physician attached to the Medical Inspectorate, about the Nurnberg conference of the Luftwaffe on the 26th and 27 of October 1942. The freezing experiments at Dachau were openly discussed and there was a general understanding that experimental persons who were being used against their will their death was expected. Thus, it was known throughout the Luftwaffe and as a result Milch cannot avoid responsibility by his plea that these experiments wore little known in Luftwaffe circles. The affidavit reads:
"I, Hermann Becker-Freyseng, being duly sworn, depose and state:
"1. I was born on 18 July 1910 in Ludwigshafen. I studied medicine at the Universities of Heidelberg, Innsbruck, and Berlin. In the summer of 1940 I joined the Luftwaffe. At first I was an Unterarzt with a Flyer Selection Group."
Now, skip to Paragraph 4 at the bottom of the page.
"When I first joined the Luftwaffe, Hippke was Chief of the Inspectorate of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe. Schroeder at that time was Chief Medical Officer of Air Fleet 2 and held the rank of Generalstabarzt. Schroeder held the highest rank in the medical service of the Luftwaffe other than Hippke.
Schroeder became Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe in January 1944.
"5. At the Nurnberg conference held in October 1942, Dr. Holzloehner gave a report on the freezing experiments conducted at Dachau in co-operation. with Dr. Rascher. Anthony was Chairman of the meeting. As a result of Holzloehner's report and others given at the conference, we issued instructions to Flight Surgeons that the warm bath method was to be used in receiving aviators who had been severely chilled.
THE PRESIDENT: Shouldn't that be "reviving?"
MR. McMAHON. I think it should be, your Honor, the will correct it to make it "reviving."
"I know that prior to the Nurnberg conference Holzloehner was experimenting with Rascher in Dachau on freezing problems. I also knew that Ruff and Romberg had conducted certain low-pressure experiments at Dachau in co-operation with Rascher. It was fairly well-known that those men were experimenting on concentration,camp inmates. Dr. Kalk told me that he had seen Rascher in Milch's office at the RLM and we were both very surprised at this."
This affidavit is dated 24 October 1946. The next document which the prosecution wishes to offer in evidence is NOKW-419, which is Exhibit No. 122 and is on page 188 in the English and page 194 in the German Document Book. This is an interrogation of Dr. Weltz, beginning with the question:
"Was it explained to you that in the case of severe freezing, where, however, there wag still some life left, rewarming was -contrary to the previously held opinion -- called for?
"A. That is a fact which I and my associates at Dachau, Holzloehner, Finke and Rascher found out simultaneously and we presented this matter at the same meeting and at the Nurnberg meeting.
"Q. You had thus had tho experience in your experiments with animals that a quick re-warming of those who have been severely frozen is possible?
"A. Yes.
"Q. And then it was openly discussed at the Nurnberg meeting?
"A. Yes."
The next document to be offered in evidence --
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any documentary evidence that Milch was at the Nurnberg meeting?
MR. McMAHON: I do not have such evidence, your Honor, but our point is: it was a meeting of major importance to Luftwaffe medical circles and as Inspector General of the Luftwaffe it was Milch's responsibility to acquaint himself with whatever went on at that meeting and whatever was discussed there.
THE PRESIDENT: The meeting was held for the benefit of the Luftwaffe?
MR. McMAHON: It was, your Honor. It was a Luftwaffe meeting to discuss medical problems and its advance in medical research.
THE PRESIDENT: And he was in a position, whether he was there or not, that he should have known of the information that was there disclosed?
MR. MC MAHON: That's right, your Honor. The next document which the prosecution will offer in evidence is NO-224, which will be Prosecution Exhibit No. 123 and is on page 190 of the English and page 201 of the German Document Book. This is an undated memoranda made by Dr. Romberg concerning the September 1942 meeting in Milch's office in the RLM, which meeting Milch failed to attend. The Court will please note that Milch was the man who finally approved the distribution schedule for this report. Reading from this document:
"On September 11, 1942 at 9:45 o'clock Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher and Dr. Romberg met, according to telephonic and oral agreements with Colonel Pendele, in the ante-chamber of the Secretary of State. We were informed that the Secretary of State had ordered this conference at the present stage, in the course of which a report on experiments concerning "rescue from great heights" was to be made, and the motion picture concerning these experiments was to be shown. The gentlemen waiting in the ante-chamber of the Secretary of State and in the corridor, most of them from the experimental staff, were informed that previous to the conference a motion picture was to be shown, so that all went to the motion picture room on the 5th floor. Here quite a large number of people were already present, so that 30 to 40 persons were there in all. among them were --- we know some of them personally -- some officer, medical and engineer officer, whose presence surprised us in view of the top secret nature of the motion picture end of the experiments. No checking of the persons present was done, nor was there an attendance list. As, after a short time of waiting, the Secretary of State had not come the motion picture was shown, without giving us an opportunity for preliminary or explanatory remarks. During the intermission between the two parts of the motion picture, Dr. Rascher referred once more to the strict obligation of secrecy ordered by the Reichsfuehrer-SS.
After completion of the snowing of the motion picture the Secretary of State had not come, as he had been summoned to the Reichsmarshal -- the persons present still talked a little while about the notion picture, on which 472 (a) occasion less interest was shown in the subject itself than in the place of the experiments and the individuals who had been experimented upon.
After this period of time, during which we were neither called upon to make any statements whatsoever, nor were we, considering the great forum and the absence of the Secretary of State, inclined to give any reports the greatest part of those present sent back to the development conference while Oberstarzt Wuerfler, Oberstarzt Prof. Kolk, Stabsarzt Bruehl and Government Councillor Benzinger asked us for a report in a small medical circle. As, however, the Secretary of State had prohibited any report previous to the fixing of distribution, we refused to disclose the results of the experiments. Oberstarzt Kolk stated that he was willing to report to the Secretary of State our wishes concerning the fixing of distribution and the continuation of the experiments.The motion picture film was handed to Colonel Vorwald.
"According to the conference with Oberstrumbannfuehrer Sievers, i tried to get the film back on the same day, but Colonel Vorwald was still at the development conference, then I telephoned the next day and requested that the film be handed back, Colonel Vorwald declared that he would like to keep the film until after Sunday, the 13th of September, since on this day the Reichsmarshal was coming and might perhaps desire to see the motion picture, accordingly, I let Colonel Vorwald keep the motion picture for that day. On the 14th of September I went to fetch the motion picture from Colonel Vorwald and was informed that it had not been shown. On the same day I spoke with Stabsarzt Bruel, who informed me that Oberstarzt Kolb had transmitted, still on September 11th, our wished concerning distribution and continuation of the experiments to the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State --"-- who was Milch -- " had approved distribution schedule and said that a continuation of the experiments was not urgent. A few days later, the distribution schedule, accepted by the Secretary of State, was sent to the DVL by Colonel Pendele, and the report was accordingly transmitted by the DVL to the offices concerned. Since that time I have not received any news, neither concerning the motion picture nor concerning the report.
Signed - Dr. Romberg."
The prosecution will now offer in evidence Document NO-191, which will be Prosecution Exhibit No. 124 and is on page 193 of the English and page 203 of the German Document Book. This document is an affidavit signed by Rudolf Brandt, who was Himmler's personal adjutant and this document is dated 30 August 1946. It concerns the low-pressure experiments. Here Brandt states that Milch has full knowledge of these experiments. As Himmler's adjutant Brandt knew the details of this matter. Note that he states the experiments could not have been conducted without the knowledge and consent of Milch. The affidavit roads:
"I, Rudolf Hermann Brandt, swear, depose and state "1. I was born on 2 June 1909 at Frankfurt on the Oder, Germany, and studied law at the universities of Berlin and Jena.
In 1932 I became a member of the National Socialist German Labor Party, and my party number --" I can't quite make that out, Your Honor. "In October 1933, I became a member of the SS with the number 129771. On 9 November 1935 I Was made Untersturmfuehrer and was promoted step by step to the rank of Standartenfuehrer. In 1936 or 1937 I became personal consultant to Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuehrer of the SS. This position was of an administrative nature as a personal assistant to Himmler.
"2. By reason of my position as personal consultant to Himmler I had the opportunity to look into details of many activities in which Himmler and various SS personalities participated. I obtained this insight by discussions with Himmler and other persons involved, and by conferences, correspondence and similar things. I read and answered a great number of letters addressed to Himmler. In some welfare cases I handled such administrative details on my own initiative, for which a basic directive of the Reichsfuehrer SS existed.
"3. By reason of my above-mentioned position and experiences, I also obtained insight into the medical experiments on human beings and I am in the position to give the following testimony on this subject.
"A. The low pressure experiments.
"4. In May 1941 I heard for the first time of the plan to conduct experiments on human beings. The idea came from Dr. Sigmund Rascher, Stabsarzt of the Luftwatffe and later Hauptsturmfuehrer of the SS. At that time, Rascher participated in a course in Aviation Medicine at the Luftgaukommando VII (Air Force District Command) in Munich. He wrote to Himmler and suggested that concentration camp inmates be placed at his disposal in order to establish the altitude reaction the human body.
Volunteers could not very well be expected, as the experiments could be fatal under circumstances. Rascher further declared that the test station for High Altitude Research of the Air Force, whose director was Dr. G.N. Weltz, was ready to conduct such experiments.
475 (a) "5. Himmler had me answer this letter of Rascher who was informed in this answer that prisoners would be made available for the purpose of the experiments.
Later on, in July 1941, Himmler authorized Dr. Weltz, Dr. Rascher, and Dr. Kottenhof to conduct the tests of low pressure experiments in the concentration camp Dachau.
"6. It was about mid-March when the experiments began. In the meantime, the necessary technical preparations were carried out by Dr. Weltz. Dr. Kottenhoff was transferred to Roumania but the other participants in these were reinforced by Dr. Ruff, director of the Aviation Institute, Berlin-adlershof, and his assistant Dr. Romberg. These men, together with Weltz and Rascher, held a conference in Dachau in which technical preparations were discussed with the commander of the concentration camp Dachau, Pierkrowski, and the Munich adjutant of the Reichsfuehrer SS, Schnitzler. Dr. Weltz promised to obtain the necessary orders for Dr. Rascher from the Luftwaffe.
"7. It was ordered by the Reichsfuehrer SS that Rascher was to participate personally in the experiments on human beings in Dachau. According to that, I wrote to Sievers in March 1942 that the experiments were approved as long as Rascher participated in them. It was mainly Luftwaffe experiments and Rascher was the only SS doctor in the Group. This was done by request of Mrs. Rascher, who was afraid that other members, especially Dr. Weltz, would assume leadership and. responsibility for the experiments and. so brush aside Dr. Rascher. She wanted Rascher to be attached to the Aviation Research Institute, Berlin-Adlershof, to prevent Weltz from transferring him somewhere else. Rascher was to be transferred by Himmler's order through Generaloberstabsarzt Dr. Hippke, who extended the order to the effect that Rascher was attached to Weltz's organization in Munich.
"8. In April 1942 Rascher sent a report draft on the progress of the experiments to Himmler. This report stated that the experiments were conducted, with the aim of ascertaining how long human beings could live if subjected to the variations occurring in high altitudes (lack of oxygen and low pressure). Many experiments ended with the death of the experimental subject. Rascher declared in any accompanying letter that Sievers had seen some of the experiments.
"9. After Himmler had read the report, he ordered Rascher to continue the experiments on persons who were sentenced to death. If the experimental subjects survived the experiments, their sentenced was commu*ed to life imprisonment. He also requested him to invite Dr. Fahrenkamp to this experiments. In the meantime, Sievers had reported to Himmler on his visit to Dachau and his knowledge of and participation in the low pressure experiments. For subjects who volunteered the prison sentences were to be reduced.
"10. Rascher inquired later on whether Poles and Russians who survived the experiments were to have their death sentence commutted. I answered Obersturnfuehrer Schnitzler by order of the Reichsfuehrer SS that the death sentence of Poles and Russians was not to be commuted.
"11. There is no doubt that numerous mishaps occurred in the course of these experiments. I remember that Mrs. Rascher wrote to me asking for permission to take color photos of newly dissected bodies; this permission was granted.
"12. Generalfeldmarschall E. Milch and Professor Hippke, Inspector of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe, were fully informed about the low pressure experiments. Actually, these experiments could not have been conducted without the knowledge and approval of these men, as they were conducted for the benefit of the Luftwaffe and the experimenting persons were mostly Luftwaffe physicians. Rascher was also a member of the SS and that's why Himmler insisted in his full participation in the experiments. He wanted the SS to get credit for this undertaking.
"Karl Wolff was the liaison man between Himmler and Milch for the low pressure and freezing experiments. I remember a correspondence between Himmler and Milch, in which the latter admits to have read the reports of Rascher and Romberg. The Air Ministry (RLM) was to show films on these experiments. It is also know to me that Himmler tried to get Rascher's release from the Luftwaffe by a letter to Milch so that he would only be under the orders of the SS. In this he finally succeeded through Hippke's office." This is signed.
"Rudolph Brandt."
The final document offered by the Prosecution in evidence is NO 242, which will be Prosecution Exhibit No. 125. It is on Page 196 of the English and, Page 207 of the German Document Book. The German copy of this was illegible -
THE PRESIDENT: The court will take its customary recess.
(A recess was taken)