Blood flowed from my leg and it was very difficult for me to walk, but I had to carry out the order. We had to work. I was put in Block 15. In this block the chief of the block was a Czech woman who tried to help us. It occurred to her that it would be good to use us as workers in knitting stockings on the block as it was done by elderly women. But even this work was very hard for me. I could not sit a long time because my leg got numb. At the end of June the scars on my leg opened again. Blood and pus drained from my wound during one week. It was not only my case, but the legs of many comrades also bled. I saw, in the wounds of mu fellow prisoners, pieces of wood, glass, and even a thread with a broken needle.
The doctors who used to work with Oberhauser refused to help us. They told us that they did not want to improve things, by Oberhauser. I did not hear it myself but this was repeated to me by my comrades who asked for help from the hospital doctors.
Q. Now, witness, when did your wound heal completely?
A. In the end of June.
Q. June when, what year?
A. 1943.
Q. And you were/operated on in November 1942. Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you object to this operation?
A. I could not protest against the operation because like conditions in the camp didn't allow it. We were not allowed to stay anything and were beaten for having said something. I went through this beating and treatment. When the like conditions in the camp changed, then we protested because the operations were performed constantly on persons who had been operated before, who had been operated on before. Some of them were operated on five and six times. In the Spring of 1943 we decided to protest against it. We preferred to die than to suffer again, but our protests gave not result because the operations were carried on. At that time the camp commander was Oberaufseherin Langefeldt and then we made a protest in writing against those operations. We got no answer. They tried to operate on some other of my comrades. Some of them escaped and ran away from the hospital. Those who were weaker and could not escape had to be operated on again. For several months there were no operations At that time, Langefeldt was dismissed and Bienz took her place. On the 15th of August 1943, some girls were summoned to the hospital. They didn't want to go. They knew that they were going to be operated on. Bienz appeared on the same day and told all the prisoners to get out of the block. In this block lived all girls who had been operated on before. There were sixty girls after the operation and about a thousand women who had not been operated on. All women in other blocks were not allowed to leave their blocks. Bienz came and told ten girls to get out of the rink. She put them before the block and asked them why they did not follow her order and did not appear in the hospital.
The tenants said that they know why they were summoned and they do not want to be operated on again and that they preferred death to the operation. Bienz told them that there was no question of an operation and gave them their word of honor that they would go for work outside the camp. She told them to follow her because as she said; she wanted to show them a paper proving that they would be sent for work to the factory outside the camp.
I forgot to mention that people, women belonging to the Lublin Transport, were not allowed to work outside the camp. That is why my fellow prisoners did not believe Bienz; but they followed Bienz and stood before her office. Bienz left them standing before her office and went alone to the canteen. In the canteen were Polish prisoners who understood German very well, seeing those ten prisoners standing before the office, and told then that Bienz asked for SS-men to help to got then by force to the hospital. Then the comrades ran away and mixed with us. After a while, Bienz appeared with the camp police and told those ten girls to get out of the rink. Nobody followed their order. Then the police women, who know very well the operated women, drove them out of the rink; accompanied by the camp police, and they were taken by Bienz to the bunker. I know that operations had been performed on them in the bunker because the girls who had undergone these operations told me that.
Q. Was it clean in this bunker, witness? was it clean in the bunker, were the conditions hygienic?
A. The bunker was a kind of prison. The cells were very small, dirty and dark.
Q. And they operated on these ten Polish girls in this bunker?
A. Five of them were operated on in the bunker.
Q. When did this happen?
A. On the 15th of August 1942. They told us they did not get food for throe days as a punishment that women from this block did not betray their comrades. The shutters were closed and we had to stay in the block in darkness without food. After three days when the doors wore opened, the majority of the prisoner were lying on the floor--fainted. I know that the operations had been performed in the bunker and in very bad conditions and that during the operation the legs of the operated women were dirty and covered with mud.
Q. How do you know that, witness?
A. I know it from my comrades who came back and told me that.
Q. Now, can you tell the Tribunal approximately how many Polish girls were operated on in Ravensbrueck, experimental operations?
A. About seventy.
Q. And do you know whether any of them died as a result of these experimental operations?
A. Five persons, whose names I gave at the beginning of ay deposition.
Q. And those five were only ones that you know died as a result of these operations, is that right?
A. Yes, but I know also that five other girls who had undergone operations had been shot down. One of them, Okonewska, was supposed to be set free. In 1945 I met her on her way back to Poland. I talked to her and she told me that she worked with a German peasant on his farm.
Q. Were any of these girls who were operated on released from the concentration camp because they underwent the operation?
A. No.
Q. Do you still suffer any effects from this operation?
A. Yes.
Q. What are they?
A. I have very often temperature and my leg causes me sometimes very severe pain so that I cannot walk.
Q. Do you have to wear special shoes?
A. Yes, I must wear shoes on very low heels and very light.
Q. What is that answer again, please?
A. I must wear very light shows with very low heels.
Q. Do you have any limp when you walk bare-footed?
A. I limp, but not much.
Q. Have you received any operational treatment since you left Ravensbrueck?
A. No.
Q. I would like now to submit to you 3 pictures. Those are, if the Tribunal please, Document Number NO-1079, a, b, and c. They are not in your Honors' document books. They have just been received. They were taken only a few days ago and they are not in the document book.
JUDGE SEBRING: Will they be, Mr. McHaney?
MR. MCHANEY: Well, Your Honor, I don't know whether we will be able to have photographic duplications of all of these or not. We can very easily make photostatic copies but they really do not show up very well. I have got one set here which I would like to pass up to the Tribunal now.
BY MR. MCHANEY:
Q. Witness, will you look at these photographs and toll the tribunal if they are pictures made of you here in Nurnberg?
A Yes.
Q. Are all three of them pictures of you?
A. Yes.
Q. Thank you. I submit Document Number no 1079a, b, and c as Prosecution Exhibit 209. New witness, will you please remove the stocking and shoe from the leg on which you were operated?
(Witness proceeds to comply with request.)
JUDGE SEBRINg. How can you submit these photographs so that a permanent record may be made unless you actually have the originals and a copy filed with the Secretary General?
MR. MCHANEY: Well, Sir, we have original copies made from the negatives which are now in this exhibit folder and which has been given Exhibit number 209. We will pass that to the Secretary General and it is then a part of the permanent record. I have passed those up for Your Honors' inspection and the Tribunal may keep these.
JUDGE SEBRING: Do you have two sets of each of those pictures for the Secretary General? We require the Secretary General to keep all of his record in original and duplicate, as you know.
MR. MCHANEY: I see. We will be glad to provide him with a set, yes.
BY MR. MCHANEY:
Q. Witness, have you removed the stocking and shoe from your leg?
A. Yes.
Q. Will you please stand up and walk around to the front of the witness box so that the Tribunal may see? (Witness complies.) Now will you turn around, please? Turn around again, more slowly please, a little more, turn around just a bit more; now then, stand still there. (Witness complies.) All right, you may sit down now, please. When did you leave Ravensbrueck, witness? -792
A. On 23 April 1945.
Q. What are you doing now?
A. I work now in the Red Cross in Warsaw.
Q. Now, do you see anyone in the defendants' dock you recognize to be the person Oberhauser?
A. Yes.
Q. Is she a woman, witness? I dud not get the answer please.
A. I recognize her.
MR. MCHANEY: We will ask that the record show that the witness has recognized the woman in the deck as being Oberhauser.
JUDGE SEBRING: The record may so shaw.
MR. MCHANEY: I think I have no further questions at this time, Your Honor
JUDGE SEBRING: Do any of defense counsel care to cross examine this witness in the morning when court convenes?
DR. SEIDL (Counsel for defendants Gebhardt, Oberhauser and Fischer): I have the intention to address several questions' to the witness tomorrow
JUDGE SEBRING: There will be questions propounded then, I understand?
DR. SEIDI: Yes, Sir.
JUDGE SEBRING: Mr. McHaney, the witness will be produced here in the morning, then, for cross-examination.
MR. MCHANEY: Yes indeed, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be recessed until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 20 December 1946, at 0930 hours.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al., defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, 20 December 1946, 0930-0945,Justice Beals, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable Judges of Military Tribunal 1.
Military Tribunal 1 is now in session.
God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will ascertain that the defendants are present.
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all tho defendants are present.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary-General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in the courtroom.
MR. HARDY: May it please tho Tribunal, due to some unforeseen circumstances the arrival of the witnesses has been delayed. If it would be possible to recess for ten or fifteen minutes pending the arrival of the witnesses it would be very much appreciated.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess until we are notified of the arrival of the necessary witnesses.
(A recess was taken.)
THE PRESIDENT: The witness having arrived, the Tribunal will proceed.
MARIA BROEL-PLATER - Resumed CROSS EXAMINATION BY DR. SEIDL (Counsel for the defendants Gebhardt, Oberhouser, and Fischer):
Q. Witness, in September 1939 during the war, were you evacuated to Hungary?
A. I was evacuated to Hungary on the 11th of September 1939 800
Q. On the 1st of August you returned to Poland. Did you return to that part of Poland which was described as the general government?
A. Yes.
Q. When did you join tho resistance movement?
A. One month after my return to Poland.
Q. In the resistance movement you were tho chief of a group of messengers?
A. Yes.
Q. In this capacity did you receive and pass on to loaders of the resistance movement-- did you give and pass on orders to them?
A. Yes, I had my own group and I directed this group.
Q. It was tho aim of tho resistance movement to remove tho German rule in tho general government and, therefore, you joined them, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. From your testimony which you gave yesterday it could not be clearly soon what kind--how the trial was conducted to which you were subjected. Was it in that case a so-called court martial in tho general government?
A. No.
Q. You stated yesterday that already on tho 1st of August 1941 operations were taking place. Arc you quito sure of that? Are you quite sure that you can exactly remember that date?
A. The operations started to be performed in tho concentration camp Ravenstruck on 1st august 1042 because I was arrested in 1941.
Q. That is not in 1941 but in 1942.
A. Yes.
Q. You have testified yesterday that several experimental subjects were operated on on several occasions.
As a result of the previous operations did they have high fever and severe pains?
A. I was told by then that they had all groat pains and high fever.
Q. Witness, you further testified yesterday that the experimental subjects were other prisoners in this block. Where all the people residing in this block members f the resistance movement?
A. I don't know.
Q. How many women of the resistance movement were all together located in this block?
A. I don't know.
Q. Up until 1943, you have made some very general statements. Do you knew why these operations were carried out in the bunker and net in a well furnished operating room and who carried them out?
A. The operations were carried out in the bunker because this was that bind of furnishings an I I don't know by whom they were performed.
Q. You also stated yesterday that it was a general conviction in the camp that the members of the resistance movement would not return to Poland any more and would not be able to leave the camp alive; was this view also expressed by members of the camp administration?
A. Yes, it was said by Binz.
Q. You also stated yesterday that women were being transported to Lublin; these women who had been transferred to Lublin, were they also members of the resistance movement.
A. I did not say yesterday that transports of prisoners were sent to Lublin.
Q. Then, I must have misunderstood the testimony of the witness. On the 23rd of April, 1945, you had loft the camp; was this done under the auspices of the Swedish Red Cross?
A. No.
Q. I do not have any further questions.
BY ATTORNEY FLEMMING FOR THE DEFENDANT MRUGOWSKY:
Q. Witness, you stated that the operations in the Ravensbrueck Camp began on August 1, 1942?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you mean by that the operations on women?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know that before operations were being carried out on women that operations were also carried out on men?
A. I did not hear it.
Q. Does the witness know that before operations were carried out on women, operations were carried out on men at Ravensbrueck?
A. I did not know it.
Q. I thank you very much.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further cross examination for this witness on the part of the Defense Counsel? If not, the prosecution may proceed.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Witness were you over asked to sign a paper in Ravensbrueck, which would show that your injuries to your leg had occurred for reasons other than the operation, which you have described to this Tribunal?
A. I did not sign such a paper, but I was warned and told by Commander Tuchring, who wanted me to sign such a paper. The contents of this paper was as follows: "The undersigned, Marie Breel-Plater, certifies that the scars, which I have en my legs, were caused by an accident at work."
Q. I have no further questions to direct to the witness. I would like at this time, if there is no further cross-examination, to call Dr. Alexander to the stand and have him give his expert medical report on this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further cross-examination of this witness on the part of any defense counsel? There being none, you nay proceed.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. The witness will state his name?
Q. Lee Alexander.
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me:
I swear that the evidence I shall give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help no God.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
THE PRESIDENT: You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. McHANEY:
A. Your name is Lee Alexander?
A. Yes.
Q. When and where were you burn?
A. I was born October 11th, 1905, in Vienna, Austria.
Q. Are you a citizen of the United States?
A. I have been a citizen of the United States since 1938.
Q. Have you studied and practiced medicine?
A. I Have studied and practiced medicine from 1922 to 1934 and practiced since then.
Q. What is your present occupation?
A. My present occupation is that of consulting Neurologist and Psychiatrist in the city of Boston. At the same time I am practising as a research specialist in Boston State hospital. I am also on the staff of various other private and public hospitals in Boston and its vicinity.
Q. Are you new acting as a special consultant to the Secretary of War?
A. I have new been appointed special expert consultant to the Secretary of War.
Q. Doctor, in answering my questions, will you please pause for a few moments so that the interpreter can interpret the answers into German?
A. Yes sir.
Q. I would like to put a series of questions to you concerning your education and medical experience. Did you receive your A.B. degree in Vienna, Austria in June of 1923?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And from 1923 to 1929 did you study medicine at one University of Vienna medicine School at Vienna, Austria?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And from 1927 to 1928 did you intern in the Second Department of Medicine at the University of Vienna Hospitals.
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you receive your M.D. degree from the University of Vienna Medical School in July, 1929?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And from 1929 to 1931 did you intern in neuropsychiatry at the Neuropsychiatric Department of the University Hospital, Frankfurt?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And from 1931 to 1932 were you a resident in neuropsychiatry, the Neuropsychiatric Department of the University Hospital in Frankfurt?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Were you a lecturer in psychiatry and neurology at Peiping Union Medical Hospital, Peiping, China i n 1933?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And from January, 1934 to October, 1934, a clinical assistant at the Wercester State Hospital, Worcester, Massachusetts?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And from 1934 to 1941 an instructor in neurology at the Harvard Medical School?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And over the same period were you a neuro-pathologist at the Boston City Hospital?
A. Yes sir.
Q. From 1935 to 1941 a research associate at the Boston State Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And have you also practiced in other hospitals in Boston?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Are you non a member of the editorial board of the Journal of Neuropathology and Experimental Neurology?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And were you, from 1941 to 1942, an associate professor of neuropsychiatry at Duke University Medical School, Durham, North Carolina?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Have you boon on leave of absence from Duke since that time?
A. Until my resignation in January, '46.
Q. Were you, from July 1942 to January, 1946, in the Medical Corps of the United States Army?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What rank did you attain, Doctor?
A. Major, and later appointed Lieutenant Colonel in the Officers Reserve Corps, United States Army.
Q. Did you serve as chief of the section of neuropsyciatry, 65th General Hospital from July, 1942 until May, 1945?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And that was the United States Army General Hospital which served the Eighth Air Force in England?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And were you on detached service with a G-2 Specialist Task Force, Sixth Army Group, in the American occupied zones of Germany on special orders from Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Forces from May, 1945 until September, 1945?
A. Yes sir.
Q. You state you. resigned from Duke University in January, 1946?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What have you done since that date?
A. I have returned to practice of neurology and psychiatry in Boston, and I have taken over the positions mentioned at the outset of my testimony; namely, those of Associate Director of Research at the Boston State hospital; Consulting Neurologist and Psychiatrist to to Washingtonian Hospital, and various other public and private hospitals in Boston and vicinity.
Q. Now, Doctor, are you a member of a number of medical associations?
A. Yes sir. I am also a Diplomate and former Examiner on the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.
Q. Could you name just a few of those medical societies of which you are a member?
A. American medical Association, American Neurological association, American association of Neuropathologists, American Association of Psychopathologists, Association for Research in Nervous and Mental Disease, Harvey Cushing Society, American Association of Pathologists and Bacteriologists, Boston Society of Psychiatry and Neurology, Now England Psychiatric Association, and a number of others.
Q. Thank you. Now, Doctor, what experience have you had with medical legal work, if any?
A. Considerable, both in civilian practice, in university teaching, and in military practice.
Q. Could you describe that experience in just a bit more detail?
A. It consists in serving as an export to courts, both civilian courts and military courts and teaching methods and principles of examination and testimony to medical students.
Q. What experience have you had with cases of trauma or injury with or without subsequent infection?
A. Considerable, especially during my time at tho Boston City Hospital and in tho Army.
Q. What experience have you had with tho reading of X-rays? 809
A. Likewise a great deal. I served among others as examiner in X-rays of tho skull, spine and nervous system on tho American Board of Neurology and Psychiatry.
Q. Now, Doctor, I will ask you if you have made a physical examination of Maria Drool-Plater, the woman seated to your right?
A. I have.
Q. And were X-rays of the logs of this woman made under your supervision?
A. Yes, at the 385th Station Hospital.
Q. Doctor, I am having handed to you Document NO-1088.
A. Yes sir.
Q. Will you please identify for the Tribunal what this document is?
A. This document is an X-ray and a print made thereof of the right log of tho witness, Miss Breel-Plater, which was made by Captain Wunderlich and his assistants at the 585th Station Hospital, and which I studied there with tho Captain after those were dried and completed.
Q. And this X-ray was made under your supervision?
A. It was at my request and under my -- I would say -
Q. Under your direction?
A. Yes, at my direction, I have no supervisory function at the 385th Station hospital, but I directed them what to take and told them what I wanted and what it was desired for.
Q. You watched them make it, did you?
A. I did not watch them make it, but I asked them to do it. When I returned to see it it was properly labeled, and I have no doubt that it actually, in effect, is the X-ray of Miss Breel-Plater's logs.
Q. And you identify it as such?
A. I identify it as such.
MR. HcHANEY: I would like to offer Document NO-1088 as Prosecution Exhibit 210. If your Honors please, of course tho original of this exhibit is in fact, the negative. Howover, I understand they are subject to deterioration and I would therefore ask leave of the Court to submit, instead of tho original, a print thereof.
THE PRESIDENT: That procedure may be followed.
BY MR. HcHANEY:
Q. Now, Doctor, I would appreciate it if you would simply proceed to explain to tho Court what you have done in examining this woman and what you have to report on your examination. I would appreciate it if you would do it in non-technical language Insofar as possible and whore technical words are necessary, I wish that you would please explain them to the Court as well as you can.
A. I will, sir. My task could be facilitated by asking tho witness, Miss Drool-Plater, to remove her shoos and stockings, if that pleases you and the Court.
Q. And, Doctor, it night be well if she moved her chair around to her left.
A. If she moved her chair here in front where one could see her, it would then appear -
Q. Are you sure that chair is secure?
JUDGE SEBRING: Doctor, suppose you just put tho chair over to the side.
A. There is a special reason, for that, sir, because you will see here that the right log, at the calf, is rotated inward and drops down to where you see that rotation. That is due to atrophy, the loss of what is known as -
BY MR. McHANEY:
Q. Now, just a minute, Doctor. You are not able to hear?
A. I will stay here. This is due to loss of what is known as the peronei nerve, of the peronei nerve, nervous peronaous. The musculature of the right calf which is supplied by the peronei nerve is strophic, as you will see here.