Q. Now, witness, if we take a list of your research assignments we see that a part of these research assignments are concerned with militarily important matters. Because the work is during war time that is understandable, particularly since the medical Inspectorate is a part of the Luftwaffe. However, one sees also that some of these assignments are concerned with matters that apparently have nothing to to do with military or specifically Luftwaffe matters. Now, witness, was the case not as follows: The Medical Inspectorate assigned only commissions of military importance and only gave financial support to such assignments and, if that is so, how is it that there are assignments in this list which are not of military importance?
A. The reason for this is that both the Medical Chiefs and the departmental chiefs and the referents saw perfectly clearly that applied research is not possible without a very broad foundation in basic research and precisely aviation medicine as applied research always saw itself before the necessity of acquiring basic scientific knowledge as to be foundation of its applied research. If applied science is to be carried out as science in the true sense of the word then there has to be a very broad foundation of what I referred to as basic research. You have already referred to Document 934, exhibit 458. When in the autumn of 1944 I turned over all the research assignments to the training groups in the Military Medical Academy in Berlin there were on that particular day exactly 109 assignments to date. I happen to have a list from that time available which shows the following:
49 of these assignments, that is 45% of the whole, were purely basic research, the applicability of which to practical questions during the was neither considered nor expected to be very likely.
This was a sort of research that had been and would have been carried on daring peace time as well. 40 assignments, that is 35 % of the whole, concerned the collection and compilation of military experiences in the medical sphere during the War, measures to prevent accidents and disease. Particularly should be mentioned here research into protect on against air raids. 16 assignments, or 15 %, concerned the selection and competence of flyers and only 4 assignments, roughly 4% of the whole, concerned the increase of aviation or flying efficiency in War time. I believe that this break down of this list clarifies adequately the purpose of these research assignments during the War. With the help of such research assignments the Luftwaffe alone supported the work of many well known institutes and workers and not only supported it but made it possible at all.
Q. Witness, let me sum up your answer by saying that the Medical Inspectorate of the Luftwaffe did not carry out aviation medicine specific research out carried out research on a very, very broad and general basis.
A. Yes, I believe that can be seen from the list of 27 research assignments.
Q. Now witness, another point. You know what the Prosecution has deduced from the themes involved in the research assignments and now I want to ask you how were these research assignments checked on? How were the research men checked on who were working on the assignments?
A. Here again let me refer to what Professor Rostock testified to. Anyone who has ever put his head inside the door of a scientific Institute and who knows the position of a German professor or a German director of an institute knows how such a checking is possible at all.
In view of this list that a s been mentioned several times, document NO-954, exhibit 458, it can be seen that 40% of these assignments were given to ordinary German professors directly.
Q. Witness, let me interrupt, by this word "ordinarius" you mean regular professors that regular professors that were teaching in German universities.
A. I was just going to explain that - scientists whose practiced in his specialized field in a clinic or in a university institute - men who were recognized as specialists and authorities in their field. These were men to whom these institutes wore given. An additional 43% of these assignments were given to directors of other scientific institutes, for Instance Cherkow Institute at Bad Nauheim, the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physiology in Munich, or the Kiazer Wilhelm Institute for Biochemistry in Berlin-Dahlem. The remaining 17% of the assignments went to younger associates in the institutes who, however, had all of them been active for years in scientific fields. I believe, one will admit that supervising of these scientists, checking on them and some of them were very difficult persons to deal with, would have been a very difficult matter. If I visited such a scientist in his clinic or his institute then I could not appear before him as his superior somewhere else because the Medical Inspectorate of the Luftwaffe could not give orders to a director of such an institute. And, if this scientist is also a member of the medical Inspectorate of the Luftwaffe, then within his own institute he would have been his own master and would not have been subordinated in that activity to the Army and I believe that every ordinary professor in a German University would have forbidden my supervising him and would have been justified in doing so.
Q. Dr. Becker, you were active in science even during peace time and consequently you can possibly answer the following question: Was such supervision, such as the Prosecution seems to feel was a duty, was such supervision customary at all and secondly was it necessary?
A. No, nobody considered such supervision necessary. The scientists, after all, were mature men and experienced scientists and it wasnot to be expected of any of them that they would do anything illegal or wrong. Nor wassuch supervision customary, and during the time that I was an assistant at a university clinic I never was subjected to any sort of supervision by any superior. I can only say then if we had been supervised and we had had something to conceal then you must expect that we would be clever enough to keep it very well concealed so that even a supervisor wouldn't find out about it. There is a special term in German conversational language for this that is known as "cinen Tuerken bauen", that is to say, setting up a sort of Potemkin village before anybody who was going to supervise -- put up a false front.
Q. Now tell me, witness, this sort of supervision that the prosecution refers to, would it have been carried out by you as referent or by the Chief of Staff or by the Chief of the Medical Inspectorate or by any or all of them? Could you or the medical chief even have had the possibility of checking on and supervising this work in viewof the fact that the research assignments cover just about the whole field of medicine, as can be seen from that list?
A. I can answer several things to this. First of all, we didn't have the time because the research assignments were only one part of our total work. Everyone of us, of course, in the fields in which we were specialists could have carried out a supervision with success, but not in a specialized fieldin which we had not worked ourselves or in which we had no specialized knowledge or experience. For example, we could never have reproached anybody in the field of high altitude research or in the field of oxygen poison, but, even in another specialized field of aviation medicine, I would have had to rely on what the research man in question told me not being a specialist myself.
Q. Let me say, to sum up, the same was true of the Chief of Staff and the Chief of the Medical Inspectorate himself, because, at the very best, they would have been specialists in only one field with specialized knowledge that would have enabled them to supervise that one field but certainly did not have specialized experience in the dozens of fields that were embraced by this list of research assignments.
A. That is so.
Q. Witness, one additional question. In what form were these research assignments made? Let me say briefly regarding this that tho Prosecution seems to have the idea that the research assignment did not contain merely the theme but also precise and exhaustive details as to how the research was to be carried out. That is to say, the researcher, according to the prosecution, was not given only the theme of his research, but also a working plan as to how he should carry it out. Now what do you have to say to that?
A. Basically I can say regarding this that the way by which a scientific goal is to bo achieved is usually the most difficult aspect of the whole problem. That is to say, it is precisely this way to the goal that has to bo found. Consequently, you are completely misunderstanding research as a whole if you believe that you could prescribe to a research worker ahead of time just how he is to reach his conclusions. At the very moment you can simply tell him what problem he is to attack and what his final goal is to be, but how he achieves this goal that is precisely what his task consists of. If I simply have to tell a man that he should carry out such and such experiments on a thousand Guinea pigs or a thousand dogs then I can just as well get a technical assistant. I don't need a research man for that. So it was that research assignments contained only the theme of the research, and usually approval for certain financial support far the research and, from 1943 on, dates were set for brief reports on the progress of the work. These reports wore treated in a very generous fashion not only by the Medical Inspectorate but by the research men themselves.
It could be relied on that when the research worker had achieved some positive goal he would himself send in the report. Moreover, we weren't trying to increase the scope of the paper war, but to broaden the basis of the research as a whole, and that is not done by administrative orders. The final reports on the research assignments were usually turned in in the form of reprints from various scientific publications or they were turned in in the form of manuscripts for such publications.
Q. Now, a question about the reports, witness. You spoke of interim reports which were to be submitted at specific regular dates. What did these reports contain? To be specific, did the research man describe exactly what he had done or what he intended to do or just what did he put down in this interim report?
A. First, the interim reports had to give some accounting for how the money had been spent that had been ranted for this research and a y one who had enough scientific experience or knowledge could see from the way time money had been spent what had been worked on. The interim reports on the course of the scientific work were limited mainly to say that "work is being carried on in the direction it was being carried on before. Some results have been achieved but they do not yet.suffice for a final decision, consequently it is requested that this research assignment be extended for another year and that sufficient funds for this extension be made available." It is quite easy to understand from a psychological point of view why there was not extensive or detailed reports in these interim reports. First of all, no research man likes to show his hand before the work is finally done, and, secondly, every serious research worker only makes his results public when the program is concluded and when he wants to get his credit.
Q. And, as you said, the final reports were submitted in the form of scientific publications which were intended to be or had already been made public in scientific periodicals?
A. That was the customary way in which it was done.
Q. The next question, witness. During the war what was the policy on the secrecy of these research assignments?
A. As little aspossible was to be kept secret. Only matters which would allow persons to derive conclusions of a military or technical nature. During my activities at the Aero Medical Center in Heidelberg I again had opportunity to see the communications from the Chief of the Medical Inspectorate in the field of aviation medicine. Among the twenty-five research reports there were only four or five, at the most, that were indicated as secret. In addition, there are the eight or nine volumes of the periodical "Aviation Medicine" which was printed and distributed perfectly publicly and openly. Both Professors Hippke and Schroeder were of the view that the results of the medical research should be made accessible to the public in the home country and thus be made public even to the population in foreign countries, even while the war was still on, even in cases where Dr. Anthony as referent or later, myself, as referent, thought that we should disagree with this and, without being critical in any way, let me say that according to a communication in the English periodical"Iancet" of 13 April 1946 the English Government ordered that, from 1943 until a considerable period after the end of time war, it was forbidden to publish anything about the new drug penicillin.
Q. Now, witness, in the research assignments according to the prosecution one fact plays a very decisive role. That is the famous file note 44. You know that the prosecution charges you with all the documents carried under the file note 55, and which carried the various referat numbers for the referats in the Medical Inspectorate. Let me point out that thisnumber 44 has thrown the prosecution off in a few points. At any rate, witness, I should like to ask you about this decisive point.
According to the prosecution's charge, all research assignments, under number 55, did not go only through the referat for aviation medicine but were handled there as to their contents. Now, can you tell me something about that?
2 O May-M-GJ-12-1-Burns-(Brown)
A First let me point out that up to May 1944 I had nothing to do with the working on the research assignments as a whole. This belonged within the specialized field of the Referent, namely, Professor Anthony. But Professor Anthony like myself later concerned himself only with the assignments of a purely aviation medical character. Despite this fact all of the research assignments went through there for the following reason: in the Luftwaffe we had the so-called Wehrmacht Unification Plan. That is to say, every field was set down under a rubric. The file number 55 was the one used by the whole field of research. Independently of whether the aviation medicine or aviation technical research or some other field was involved. Let me point out in this connection Ruff's Document No. 5 in Ruff's document book page 16. This is a question of pa e a question finding a research professorship for Dr. Ruff and although this is a question involving only the personnel department this letter, because it concerned the research professorship is carried under File No. 55. Had this letter come to the medical Inspectorate, for example, it would automatically have come through the Referent Aviation Medicine, as not only a different Referat but only and wholly a different department was competent for personnel matters on research matters and were carried under this same File No. 55.
Since in the Medical Inspectorat of the Luftwaffe 90 or 95% of all research assignments concerning aviation medicine and only a very small part concerning the other fields all documents with this file number simply in order to keep things straightened out in the filing system were sent through our department. This had the great advantage when it came to working on these assignments that if any research assignments was being looked for the Filing Department knew very well that the File No. 55 referred only to matters that went through the Referat for Aviation Medicine and were to be found in that Referat. Another reason was the following: particularly during the war, many offices issued directives regarding distribution of priorities on the use of funds on the employment of personnel for research purposes. Now, it is clear that the Referent who handles 90% of all research assignments or more, is better acquainted with these various directives from other offices, then a referent who has to work on only one or two research assignments and perhaps only once or twice in a year has nothing to do with these matters at all.
In the list of the 97 research assignments, Document No934, Exhibit 458 of 97 research assignments 8 are not of an aviation medical character. For this reason also, namely, for these purely administrative matters of seeing that these directives are being obeyed-for this reason also all of these file numbers 33 matters went to the Referat for Aviation Medicine. There was a third reason, namely, the following: all of these who received research assignments were, as I said before, Professors or Scientists of long standing. The Referat Aviation Medicine was from 1939 to 1944 always administered by active professors and there is a different point of view of administrative and organizational correspondence and if efforts were to be made to preserve the style of academic circles and so it was that the Referent in this department was concerned with these research assignments and this continued event after 1944 when I became the Referent even though I was not at that time a professor.
DR. TIPP: Mr. President, in this connection I had intended to put on a number of documents -- documents regarding the entire research problem. That is to say, the assignment of this research; the form, contents, the supervision, etc. Unfortunately I received these documents so late that they are in Becker-Freysing Document Book 5 and one if then is in Book 4 and so far as I am informed the Tribunal has not yet received these volumes. However, the Defense Information Center has told me that I may have one translation of one of these affidavits and may receive it during recess. If that is the case I should like to put it in then. It is an affidavit by Professor Dr. Schaefer. Otherwise I ask permission to put in the documents later as soon as they have been translated.
THE PRESIDENT: The documents may be offered when they are available to counsel. I suggest that this examination be somewhat expedited I think we have had very long explanation but doubtless have their importance to the defense counsel but I think that this examination could be expedited somewhat to advantage.
DR. TIPP: Mr. President, I have just concluded the treatment of this theme and I come now to the discussion of the individual counts in the indictment and I should like to ask that perhaps the noon recess be taken now.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will be in recess until 1:30.
(A recess was taken until 1330 o'clock)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The Tribunal reconvened at 1330 hours, 20 May 1947.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
DR. GAWLIK (Counsel for the Defendant Hoven): Mr. President, I ask you to excuse the Defendant Hoven from tomorrow morning's and tomorrow afternoon's session in order to prepare his defense.
MR. HARDY: I have no comment in this regard, your Honor, but while the defense counsel for Hoven is here I have a question to put to him regarding the case of the Defendant Hoven. To date we have had two witnesses appear on behalf of Hoven. The prosecution is interested in whetheror not the defense counsel intends to call other witnesses on behalf of the Defendant Hoven.
DR. GAWLIK: Three other witnesses have been approved, the witnesses Richard, Dorn, and Scheuble. I have received an affidavit from the witness Rickard which I am going to submit. Whether I shall call the witnesses Dorn and Scheuble to the witness stand, or whether I would prefer to get affidavits from them, I cannot say today, since I have to discuss that question with the witnesses as soon as they arrive in Nuremberg.
TIE PRESIDENT: Counsel, as soon as you have discussed this matter with the witnesses, will you advise counsel for the prosecution as to whether they will be put on the stand or you will use an affidavit?
DR. GAWLIK: Yes, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel for the Defendant Hoven having requested that Defendant Hoven be excused from attendance before the Tribunal tomorrow in order that his counsel may consult with him concerning his defense, the request is granted. The Defendant Hoven will be excused from attendance before the Tribunal tomorrow.
Counsel may proceed with the examination of the witness.
HERMANN BECKER-FREYSENG - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
DR. TIPP (Counsel for the Defendant Becker-Freyseng): Mr. President, with reference to the complex which I completed this morning concerning the research assignments and their treatment I said that I was going to submit a document from which I was going to quote, I already said, it is contained in Document Book No. which is not yet available to the Tribunal; however, I have just received the yet available to the Tribunal; however, I have just received the translation of that document from the Language Division, and the necessary amount of copies have been handed to the Secretary-General, with the request to hand them to the Tribunal.
The interpreters as well as Mr. Hardy have also received copies. If it please the Tribunal, I should like to quote a few passages from this document.
(Document handed to the Tribunal.)
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has not yet received the copies of this document in the German language, but I assume they will be provided later.
Counsel may proceed.
DR. TIPP: This is Becker-Freyseng Document NO 64, contained in Document Book 4 on page 340. I offer it as Becker-Freyseng Exhibit No. 7. It is an affidavit by Professor Dr. Hans Schaefer, of Kerckhoff Institute, Bad Nauheim, dated 24 April 1947. After the customary introduction he says, under figure 1.
1) "I, Prof. Dr. Dchacfcr, physiologist, department director of the William G. Kerckhoff Institute at Bad Nauheim since 1 January 1940, received in 1940 or 1941 from the Medical Inspectorate of the Luftwaffe a research assignment on the subject of "research on the electrical by-effects of anoxemia and hyper-aeration". With reference to this assignment, two intermediate reports as well as 3 publications were issued. It wasnot yet completed by the end of the war.
"2) The subject was selected and proposed by me. I had previously worked on similar subjects, although not on the effects of anoxia. The subject represents part of my special field i.c. the combination of electro-physiology and circulatory research, on which field I am still working today."
Under figure 3 the witness describes why he asked for this assignment --- in order to obtain priorities and deferments and thus to be able to carry on his scientific activities.
DR. TIPP (Continuing): I quote from figure 4 on the 2nd page:
"I did not subject myself to any supervision by the Medical Inspectorate by the assignment of tho research commission and its acceptance. The research assignment gave me absolute latitude regard the method of execution and the choice of the meansof research. I was only obliged to give reports on schedule and to account for the money spent.
"5) There never was a check-up by the Medical Inspectorate, nor were there any requests. At one occasion, however, Prof. Anthony, the official in charge, paid me a private visit and was shown through the institute by me."
I shall skip figures 6 and 7; I should like to ask the Tribunal to take notice of them.
I quote again from paragraph 8:
"No instructions regarding the execution of the commission were issued, and had they been, I should in any case have rejected them."
The rest of this paragraph isnot relevant.
In figure 9 he says, and I quote:
"I should not on principle have permitted any kind of control of our scientific results, even by experts. If controls are desired they are only possible in the form of new experiments by a second scientist."
I shall dispense with reading the rest of the document. There follows the signature and the customary certification by a notary.
This concludes the question of research assignments for the time being, and I now turn to the individual counts of the indictment.
Q Witness, you have heard the desire of the Tribunal that the proceedings be shortened; for my part I shall strike out part of the questions which I intended to put to you, and I should like to ask you to limit your replies to what is absolutely necessary.
Witness, the Prosecution charges you with special responsibility for and participation in high-altitude and cold experiments. We know on the basis of numerous documents and the testimony of witnesses that in these groups of experiments Dr. Rascher played a very special role; for that reason I should like to ask you first about your relationship to Dr. Rascher. Tell me, when did you, for the first time, learn of a Dr. Rascher who was a Captain in the Medical Corps (Stabsarzt) of the Luftwaffe?
A. I heard about Dr. Rascher for the first time at about the beginning of June 1942.
Q And on what occasion was that?
AAt the beginning of June, Professor Anthony was on leave and as far as I remember he had to go on his vacation very quickly because the Chief Physician of his clinic had suddenly fallen ill. A few days later the department chief, Generalarzt (Martius?) sent some files back to me which Professor Anthony had given to him before his departure. Among those files there were the first proposals for the cold meeting which was planned for the fall of 1942, including the first proposals about the participants and the intended lectures. There were a number of changes made by the department chief on this list, and among them was an added sentence saying that a Dr. Rascher was to receive an invitation. This name, at that time, meant nothing to me, because I was neither working in the sphere of cold questions, nor did I have anything to do with the plans for the meeting. For that reason, I did not attach any particular importance to what the department chief said.
About one or two weeks later, at any rate while Professor Anthony was still on vacation, my department chief ordered me to go to the Medical Inspector, Professor Hippke, with part of these files, the papers pertaining to the proposed meeting. At Professor Hippke's office there was a Captain of the Medical Corps (Stabsarzt) of the Luftwaffe; I found out from his conversation with Hippke that he was Rascher. Professor Hippke wanted to speak to Anthony and asked me for the files and what information I could give him. This is the same conference of which Professor Hippke spoke when he was examined in the trial of Field Marshal Milch.
Q Since this conference was mainly,concerned with cold questions as you say, we shall come back to it when we are discussing that problem. I do want to ask you now: What impression did Dr. Rascher make on you when you saw him for the first time?
A On the whole, Rascher made quite a good impression on me at that time. I must add that I saw Rascher speaking to my higher superior who had received him without a department chief; Rascher spoke like an educated man; he was courteous, and seemed to be well versed in the fields which he discussed with Hippke.
Q Would you please shortly tell us in a few words, witness, what this conversation was about?
A When I entered the conversation Rascher was just informing Hippke that the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler had ordered him to carry out cold experiments, and he asked for the support of a sea emergency expert from the Luftwaffe for that purpose.
Q Of course, it became evident from the conversation that they were to be experiments on human beings?
A Yes, that became evident.
Q But, did Rascher say that he was going to use concentration camp inmates as experimental subjects, or how did he characterize the experimental subjects?
A Rascher very clearly spoke about prisoners or convicted criminals who were at our disposal, on the basis of special permission given by Hitler and Himmler, if I remember correctly, and who had to volunteer. It was my impression at that time that we were only concerned with a very limited number of people and certain vary specific cases.
Q Then Rascher spoke of criminals who were to become experimental subjects?
A Yes.
Q Did he say anything about the type of criminals?
A No, not in detail. It was very clear, however, that they were criminals. I remember that he mentioned that these people were to have the opportunity of rehabilitating themselves in some way by virtue of their participation in these experiments. He furthermore said that for that reason not every criminal who volunteered would be permitted to participate. I remember very clearly an example where a sexual criminal who had been convicted of a number of offenses against your children, had volunteered but was not permitted to participate in those experiments, where he would have had an opportunity to rehabilitate himself.
Q How did this conversation end, witness?
A I can say nothing about that. I was only called to attend the conference after it has begun, and I had to leave the conference before it was finished.
Q In that case, you do not know what actually was agreed upon, do you?
A What Rascher and Hippke discussed finally, I do not know.
Q Now, witness, on this occasion you saw Dr. Rascher for the first time, and you heard for the first time that experiments were to be performed or could be performed on criminals in Germany; is that right?
A Yes.
Q. As you told us yesterday, you had informed yourself to a great extent about the experiments on human beings from the theoretical point of view and you had performed experiments on yourself; now tell us, what impression did you have when you heard that outsiders, criminals, were to be used for these experiments?
A This announcement made a big impression on me. I had had sufficient experience with experiments on human beings in general and self-experiments in particular. Up to that point I had known about experiments on prisoners only from literature. I knew about them only as a result of my prepatory work for the State examination, when a few famous cases had to be known for bacteriology or surgery. These were Strang's famous plague experiments in Manilla, warning's leprosy experiment; and I knew of other examples from "Microbe Hunters" by Paul de Kruif, which I had read like every other German medical student.
Q After having already concerned yourself with that proble in theory, beforehand, may I now ask you, witness, whether you considered these experiments which were being planned legal experiments?
A Yes, I considered them to be just as legal as all the others of which I already knew at that time. I know that no objection had been raised to their legality or admissibility. In addition I was told that the criminals were to volunteer. I know that a special examination was necessary, and that special permission would be given. Furthermore, I did not hear about this matter in some dark corner whore a conspiracy was going on, but I heard about it in the office of my supreme superior, about whom I had to assume that he had known Rascher from before, end that he had already dealt with that question for some time.
