Q. Well, then what was Himmler's reasoning behind his order that this amnesty did not apply to Poles and Russians. Didn't Himmler consider that Poles and Russians were human beings?
A. I cannot judge that. I cannot judge what he believed or what he wanted to express. As in all cases I only wrote it down - what his decisions were. He never saw any reason for justification about whatever he ordered.
Q Now, did Himmler over cloak you with the authority to issue orders and directives in his absence?
A No, I never had that authority. During my entire time of duty. I never made any decision on my own initiative and I never issued any directives. Even in the cases which concerned letters dealing with welfare questions or similar contents, I only acted after a decision was made by Himmler and only then sent letters to the various agencies. Of course, that does not include preparatory clarification of doubtful questions which would only enable a decision on the part of Himmler.
Q Now, how many letters and reports per month did you receive in Himmler office? You state that you sent out about thirty-five hundred letters a month. How many did you receive, approximately? Round figures, doctor.
A That is very hard to say. I think the ingoing mail was about 50% more extensive than the outgoing mail. That is, if I take an average of thirty-five hundred as outgoing mail, one has to take into account about five thousand in going letters.
Q Well, now, I have noticed throughout all the documents we have here with your name thereon, and documents that were sent to the Reichfuehrer's office and reports that these reports were directed in a large majority not to the Reichsfuehrer himself but the Chief of the Personal Staff, Rudolf Brandt. Now, a great many of these incoming letters were addressed to you, were they not, in your position?
A Well, in the translation I heard Chief of Personal Staff. I was never Chief of Personal Staff. It was known that I was sitting in Himmler's anteroom and I could do nothing about people writing to me. When, however, they did write to me they meant Himmler. They did not mean me. That was generally kno**
Q I see, and your name became synonymous with that of Himmler's? Is that right?
A That is not what I want to express. When I answered "by order of Himmler the person concerned did perhaps not turn to Himmler personally, but would tu** to me without knowing (a) what position I held, or (b) what caused Himmler to ask me to sign the letter.
Q Well now, you received approximately six thousand letters per month. How did you determine what letters Himmler should see? Did you give him the whole six thousand letters each month?
A I don't understand your question.
Q Well now, approximately six thousand letters per month came into your office. Anything that was addressed to you or came to your office was for Himmler, not for Rudolf Brandt. However, Rudolf Brandt received them and Rudolf Brandt then forwarded them to Himmler. Do you tell me now that you forwarded to Himmler each and every letter that was received in your office or did you determine that Himmler didn't want to see some of them, was disinterested in the contents of some of them, and decide to act on them yourself or to send them to a subordinate to act on, or did Himmler, in each instance * did he receive the letter whatever it may have been and read it himself?
A No, he didn't read them all himself.
Q I don't imagine he could, Doctor, could he? He was a very busy man, wasn't he?
A He was a very busy man, but he reserved, in every case, the decision for himself and it was my task to submit these letters to him. Either given them to him among the mail that he had to read or report them to him verbally.
Q Well then, how did you determine which letters to give to Himmler?
A Well I really didn't make any distinction. I submitted every case to Himmler. I only examined before hand to see whether any doubtful questions had to be cleared up in order to enable a decision by Himmler. But afterwards, finally, the letter was always submitted to Himmler.
Q Well then, you had to read the letters yourself to determine that and to advise Himmler if other letters had been received on the same subject, didn't you?
A Yes, for that purpose I had an official who worked with me and who took part of the burden of this work. I couldn't possibly do that alone.
Q That's right and Himmler couldn't do it alone either, could he?
A No.
Q Then, as a matter of fact, actually Himmler didn't know any more than you knew about these experiments?
A That is something entirely different. Himmler personally informed himself about the experiments. I didn't inform myself about them. I explained yesterday that any such reports which one could recognize immediately as being medical reports or after reading the first paragraph or after looking at the address, such reports were always included among the mail which he had to read. I was glad for everything I didn't have to read that.
Q Well now, you stated also in direct examination that approximately thirty-five hundred letters were written each month in your office, and now y* state that about six thousand were received. I'll assume those are round figures. And you more or less elaborately explained to the Tribunal in figure that out of three thousand there were only some one hundred and ten documents introduced here by the prosecution pertaining to medical experiments - of which some thirty signed by Himmler, some sixty signed by Brandt, and you intended to create the impression that these were minor matters compared to the over-all picture in your office, and as these letters did not contain any criminal activities and because of the small quantity of these letters that you may have read them but you passed over them and didn't realize the crimi nature because you were so busy. Now, is that the true picture?
AApproximately it is correct.
Q Well now, how about all these other criminal activities other than medical experiments? Say that these medical experiments were minor and that everything else was nice and good and clean-cut work that Himmler's office engaged in like getting fruit juices for pregnant mothers, getting special dis pensations for this SS man and that SS man, taking care of families? What about such things as the "flier action"? Do you recall the propaganda put out by Goebbels wherein he published literature and made speeches that Americans and the British were "terror fliers" and then, in due course, an order was issued whereby the police were instructed not to hinder or not to stop the Germans from abusing the fliers or stop the Germans from abusing the fliers and eventually lynching them? Now, were you familiar with that activity that went through the office of Himmler?
A That is a matter which belonged to the jurisdiction of the police. I know that a document is available. Something that I am sure you are going to submit to me.
A I certainly ar*. Go right ahead.
A. ** document which I signed, although I practically had nothing to do with it. And here again is another case where my name is to be found.
Q Well then, Doctor, you admit that you passed on the "flier order"? Is that right?
A Himmler principally only signed one copy or, at the most, two copies Whenever copies had to be distributed among higher SS, and police leaders, these copies were either signed by the police, adjutant, chief adjutant, or b* me, and then transmitted. That is, they were signed and then they went on in normal channels in Berlin. The document which you are going to submit to me falls within the competency of the police. It was dictated by Himmler, and the accompanying letter also originates from Himmler on the strength of which his order was transmitted. The secretary, probably by order of Himmler prepared the letter for signature, and I then signed it.
Q Have you seen this document since your arrival here in Nurnberg?
A Yes, I have seen it in Nurnberg. Last year.
Q Last year?
A Yes, last year.
Q You remember it quite well?
A Yes, I don't know who asked me about it. At any rate, it was shown to me and I was asked how this order originated.
Q Well then, you do admit that one Rudolf Brandt passed on the "flier order", don't you?
A Well, there was nothing else I could do.
Q. Well, that indicates that the office in which you worked was not only engaged in medical experimentation correspondence; they had other things that were equally as shady. Can you tell the Tribunal about some of the correspondence that you handled concerning the kidnapping of Czechoslovakian children?
A. The conclusion which you are drawing that I concerned myself with this is erroneous. In the case of this Flyer Order all copies would have had to be destroyed in order to obtain the signature of the Police adjutant. I think that would have been the correct procedure and I wish that that would have been done. But for reasons of saving, and I do not know what the procedure was, why Himmler had to sign this letter before the courier arrived, but I think that there probably was no time to change this procedure then. However, this signature does not in any case allow the conclusion that this matter had anything to do with my task.
Q. Well, of course, you realize that this Flyer Order was criminal in nature, don't you? It was a breach of every law of war, wasn't it?
A. I certainly did not carry out the order. I just signed my name on it. Probably I did not even then know what was in it.
Q. Well, you passed it on to all Higher SS and Police Leaders, with two other cover letters, one to all Higher SS and Police Leaders wherein you stated: "I enclose a decree by order of the Reichsfuehrer-SS with the request that the commanders of the constabulary and of the security police be informed and that they pass it on verbally to the subordinate offices. Furthermore, the Reichsfuehrer-SS requests that the competent Gau Leaders be informed verbally of this instruction." And boldly, the signature Rudolf Brandt. And a similar letter was addressed to all SS Divisional Chiefs. Now you certainly knew the content of that Flyer Order, didn't you?
A. That was a clear dictation by Himmler and all I did was put my signature underneath it. I did not dictate this letter on my own initiative.
Q. Well, we will go on, Doctor. What do you know about the germanization of these Czechoslovakian children?
A. At the moment I remember nothing about it.
Q. Well I will submit to you Document No. NO-435, which I will mark for identification, Your Honor, as Prosecution Exhibit 465, Now this letter is dated 13 June 1944, in Prague, from the German Minister of State for Bohemia and Moravia, addressed to SS-Standartenfuehrer Dr. Brandt, Personal Staff, Reichsfuehrer-SS, Field Command post.
"Dear Comrade Brandt:
"Concerning the matter 'children of executed Czechs' I wish to reply to your letter directed to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Frank, dated 6.2. of this year - diary index No. 26/2/44 g Bra/H, that the conversation between SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Frank and SS-Standartenfuehrer Sollmann took place on July 2 of last year in Prague. Standartenfuehrer Sollmann stated during this conversation that racially valuable children up to six years would be consider eligible by the 'Lebensborn'. In individual cases even children up to 12 years could be adopted, but experience has shown, however, that difficulties would arise in such cases, when adopting them by a German family.
"The commander of the Security Police and the SD has instructed the Superior State Police Offices, Bruenn and Prague, to bring about a registration of Czech children, whose parents were executed under martial law or had died in a concentration camp.
"It was intended to have children up to six years and suitable for germanization brought into German families through the 'lebensborn'. The other children, who were no longer suitable to be brought into a German family, were to be housed collectively somewhere outside the Protectorate, in order to attempt, a collective re-education."
There is no necessity of reading any further. Now these matters were of concern to your office in addition to these minor criminal matters pertaining to medical experimentation, weren't they?
A. In no way at all.
Q. Then why is this fellow writing to you?
A. This document is proceeded by a letter of Himmler to Sollmann and Sollmann, on the 21st of June 1943, wrote to Himmler.
Sollmann is here merely giving a report to Himmler which he sent to me for he knew that this report would at any rate get to Himmler. That is the reason why my office had nothing else to do but receive the letter and then submit it to Himmler and then again receive the order by Himmler and transmit it. This is one of the cases that do not belong to it practically.
Q. The letter is addressed to you, is it not?
A. Yes, but it was meant for Himmler.
Q. Now, doctor, did you know when this ....
A. In addition, as I see now, this letter concerns the accommodation of children who have lost their parents because of their parents having been executed by martial law. That really is not an inhumane activity if these children are now being cared for.
Q. You knew all about the activity, however, before reading this document, didn't you?
A. I didn't know anything about it.
Q. Doctor Brandt, what do you know about the Warsaw Ghetto Action?
A. I have no recollection at all.
Q. You never heard of the Warsaw Ghetto Action, wherein they razed the ghetto at Warsaw and they removed some 50,000 people therefrom; wherein 10,000 or better were killed -- you never heard of that in your capacity on the person staff of Himmler?
A. I don't remember it.
Q. That was some more of the correspondence that you just merely looked at and let it go by, is that it?
A. Considering the numerous correspondence, I could not possibly remember individual details.
Q. Nobody over mentioned to you that they were going to remove the ghetto and transfer some 50,000 people, which you considered sub-human, to a concentration camp? It seems to be a pretty important thing to be passing through one's hands and not knowing about it.
A. Well, I can't remember it
MR. HARDY: I have another document, Your Honor, which I want to put to the witness in the same manner as the first one. However, I have only the original copy, which I will let the defense counsel peruse while I am going into the other subject in regard to the first document.
Q. Now, doctor, going back to the knowledge of the witness, Meine, you stated that...you agreed that Meine knew nothing about the Lost gas experiments and knew nothing about the work of Hirt, and when he wrote the letter regarding the transfer of Grimme, that he had no knowledge of any of the other activities connected thereto. Now I ask you to read slowly this letter to the Tribunal so that the interpreter may follow you.
A. "Dear comrade Sievers: Please establish contact as quickly as possible with SS-Brigade Leader and Major General of the Police, Dr. Gerloff? SS-Oberst Gruppenfuehrer Daluege told Reichsfuehrer-SS, on the 12th of May, that gas experiments were carried out without any effect having been achieved. This complex of questions would interest SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Professor Hirt. In addition, SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Meine will shortly have something to tell you about it Verbally."
Q. Now will you read that last sentence again?
A. "In addition, SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Meine will shortly have something to tell you about it verbally."
MR. HARDY: This again, Your Honor, is to be offered as NO-1368, Prosecution Exhibit No. 464, and when I have acquired the necessary copies I will at that time formally introduce it for identification.
Q. Well, now, in view of that letter that you signed, and the mention of Meine, and that he will report more specifically and verbally on these matters, don't you think the witness Meine, in answer to my questions in crossexamination, was being a little bit careless with the truth?
A. This conclusion cannot be drawn.
Q. No, in regard to the Warsaw action, I have only one document that I wish to have you identify in order to refresh your recollection. I would like to have you read this document, which you forwarded to Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger; just that one page, doctor. I would like to have you read that out loud, Doctor.
A. "I order the institution of a concentration camp in the Ghetto of Warsaw, all Jews living in Warsaw will be transmitted to the concentration camp. It is prohibited for Jews to work in private concerns. The private concerns existing up to that moment existing in the Ghetto of Warsaw will be transferred into the concentration camp (Reich enterprise)...."
Q. Pardon me, just a moment, Doctor. Will you bring the document to me sergeant so I can look it over; I think he is reading the wrong document. Now, Doctor, when you read that will you include the date and the head line; read the whole Document through?
A. "16 February, 1900... I cannot read the rest of the year.
Q. 1943.
A. "1943, To the Higher Leader of the SS and Police, East, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger, Cracow. For reasons of security, I order that the Ghetto of Warsaw be razed after the concentration camp has been transferred whereby all the valuable property of that Ghetto would have to be exploited before razing the Ghetto to the ground. The razing to the ground of the Ghetto and the transfer of the concentration camp is necessary, for probably it would otherwise never be possible to get Warsaw quiet. Criminals cannot be exterminated as long as the Ghetto still exists there. A plan is to be submitted to me for the razing of the Ghetto. In any case it has to be achieved, that the housing space, which was available for 500,000 sub-human beings up to that period of time, and which would never be suitable for Germans be exterminated from the face of the earth and Warsaw the city of millions, which was always a place for disintegration and riots, be made smaller."
That is a letter by Himmler to Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger, and I sent a copy of that letter to the chief of the Security Police.
Q. Your signature likewise appears on that Document; doesn't it?
A. Yes, my signature unfortunately appears on many letters; there was nothing I could do about that.
Q. You don't know anything about that document or the Warsaw action either; I presume?
A. No.
Q. Then everything that passed through your hands; you just signed it and let it go on through; you were not even interested in reading it; is that right?
A. I had no time to read them; I had too much work.
Q. Than all these criminal letters, and we could introduce thousands of others, but we don't have the time, Doctor, passed through your hands ' unnoticed?
A. Yes, unfortunately that is right.
Q. Well, now when were you appointed chief of the personal department on the personnel staff?
A. Chief of the personal staff?
Q. Chief of the Personal Department in the personnel staff?
A. I was never officially appointed to that position. Yesterday I tried to explain that this designation, namely 'personal referent' was only created for technical reasons for the table of organization of the personnel staff and that happened in the year 1937 or 1938.
Q. Well now, when Himmler was appointed as Minister of the Interior, you then assumed the job of ministerialrat; didn't you, in the Ministry of the Interior?
A. I was Ober-Regierungsrat before that and six months later I was promoted to the rank of ministerialrat.
Q Well, now, as Ministerial Director in the Ministry of the Interior, were you in charge of a department?
A I had only the so-called Ministerial Office under me. That was the place where matters from the Ministry of the Interior went to Himmler.
Q Now tell me, how many employees were there in the Ministry of the Interior in Germany, Thousands, weren't there?
A In the Ministry of the Interior? I have no idea how many there were there.
Q Well, now, the Ministry of the Interior was the largest agency in the Reich, wasn't it?
A I don't know that.
Q How many Ministerial Directors did they have in this Ministry of the Interior, do you know?
A I don't know that either.
Q You are sure there weren't more than five or ten Ministerial Directors in the Ministry of the Interior?
A I can't give you the number because I don't know it.
Q Well, you were Ministerial Director in an organization that had thousands and thousands of employees, as I understand it. It is a pretty big job for an office boy stenographer, isn't it?
A I was Ministerialrat. These are two ranks below Ministerial Direct Director.
Q Well, even Ministerialrat, there weren't many of these, were there?
A There were quite a number of those.
Q You were Chief of the apartment, though, weren't you?
A Yes, it may have had that cuter appearance. In reality I had three experts working there and added their expert opinions which I passed on to Himmler. I was only what is called "Primus Inter Paris," and the designation "Head of the Ministerial Office" creates a wrong impression. Moreover, there were just as few letterheads reading "Head of the Ministerial Office" as there were letterheads reading "Chief of the Personal Referat." All of that shows very clearly that the designations in themselves are not at all in accordance with the importance of the position
Q Well, now, after you became Ministerialrat, did you continue in your position as Personnel Department Chief in the SS?
A Yes. That ran parallel to my other duties. This just extended my work.
Q. Now how did you happen to avoid, Dr. Brandt, going to the front and serving in the front with the Waffen-SS like every good SS man had to do?
A I didn't quite understand the question.
Q How did you avoid being sent to the front to fight with the Waffen-SS like every good SS man had to do at one time or another?
A Firstly, Himmler kept me. Secondly, I participated in the campaign in Greece with the Leibstandaete with the rank of an Overscharffuehrer.
Q Why did Himmler order that you be retained in your position and not sent to the front to fight with the Waffen-SS?
A I can give you no explanation for that.
Q Was it because of the duties which you fulfilled and the large burden of work you assumed for Himmler, that you were indispensable?
A He was used to my work since the year of 1934. He knew that I was at his disposal from morning until late at night. He knew that I never uttered any requests, and that probably is the reason why he kept me there because I alleviated his work.
Q Didn't the witness Meine state that you left and were away for one or two days, and Himmler sent out and SOS for your return?
A I don't remember that. I don't know about it.
Q What did Obergruppenfuehrer Wolf have to do with your securing your job with Himmler?
A When in the year of 1934 I belonged to the agency of the Chief of Staff in Berlin, I took a number of dictations from Himmler. That happened in January, 1934 when Himmler spent two or three days in Berlin. Wolf, at that time Himmler's adjutant, holding the rank of a Sturmbannfuehrer, told me that Himmler had sent his clerk to a Fuehrer school. He furthermore said that his successor didn't quite live up to expectations. Since Himmler had been satisfied with my work, Wolf asked me whether I would be inclined to go to Himmler's office at Munich in order to work for him there.
I agreed to that, and in this manner went to Himmler's office.
Q Now do you know that Obergruppenfuehrer Wold tells us that he was instrumental in getting you your job with the Reichsfuehrer? He further goes so far as to say that perhaps the only indispensable man in the SS is Rudolf Brandt. Do you concur with that?
A In no way at all.
Q For that reason -- or is that the feeling that Himmler had in keeping you and not allowing you to serve with the troops in the front?
A That I am sure is not the reason. That is exaggerated. I only did my duty. I was industrious, and Himmler knew it.
Q Now, Doctor, in regard to these affidavits that you have executed in behalf of the Prosecution prior to the investigation of this case, I wish to ask you a few questions. Whenever an affidavit was submitted to you for your signature, you had the opportunity to read it, didn't you?
A Yes. I already admitted that.
Q. You did read it, didn't you?
A Yes, I read it.
Q You had the opportunity to make corrections, didn't you? And on several you did make corrections.
A Yes, I did.
Q The interrogator didn't seduce you in writing those, or beat you over the head, did he?
A No, in no way at all.
Q No force was used on you?
A No.
Q You executed those affidavits under oath, didn't you?
A Yes.
MR. HARDY: No further questions, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any further questions of this witness on the part of any defense counsel?
The Tribunal will be in recess until nine-thirty o'clock tomorrow morning (The Tribunal adjourned until 26 March 1947 at 0930 hrs.
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal I in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 26 March 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHALL: Persons in the court room will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal I.
Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
The PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, you ascertain that the defendants are all present in court.
THE MARSHALL: May it please your honor, all defendants are present in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary-General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court.
Counsel may proceed.
RUDOLF BRANDT -- Resumed
THE PRESIDENT: Are there any further questions to be propounded to the witness Rudolf Brandt?
(DR. NELTE in place of DR. SERVATIUS who represents the Defendant Karl Brandt)
DR. NELTE: Professor Brandt asked me to put a few questions to the defendant wnich are of special importance to him.
THE PRESIDENT: Whom did you say requested you to ask him?
DR. NELTE: Dr. Servatius.
CROSS EXAMINATION (continued) BY DR. NELTE:
Q. Herr Dr. Brandt, in affidavit 4-4, dealing with the selection of concentration camp inmates in particular, on page 1 you say a number of persons from Himmler's entourage were well informed about the experiments. This concerns human experiments. And it says Karl Brandt, Grawitz and Gobhardt were called upon by Himmler as advisers in this question. In the name of Professor Brandt I want to ask you the following question:
Was Karl Brandt, or is Karl Brandt to he called an advisor of Himmler, and if so, on what do you base this fact?
A. He could not be called an advisor of Himmler
Q. Was he very frequently with Himmler?
A. I can remember only one time positively that I saw him at Himmler's headquarters.
Q. Was this in connection with human experiments or the selection of concentration camp inmates?
A. I do not know since I did not know the subject of the discussion.
Q. Now you say further a number of persons were well informed about the experiments. Was Professor Brandt included among those people whom you called the entourage of Himmler who were supposed to be well informed?
A. No.
Q. Then you also say the above mentioned people were members of the SS-Gruppenfuehrer corps, and the experiments were often discussed among conferences of Gruppenfuehrers. Did you ever see Professor Brandt in a conference of Gruppenfuehrers?
A. No, I cannot remember.
Q. Then for the statements I put to you, you have no factual evidence, nothing which could justify you in making such an assertion or to maintain it today?
A. No, I do not.
DR. NELTE: I thank you.
BY DR. VORWERK (Counsel for the Defendant Romberg):
Q. Witness, in the interest of the truth I should like to ask you a few questions, in particular, to know your own attitude towards the testimony which you have given in writing as well as orally during this trial. Yesterday you testified here that your written testimony, your affidavits, were signed by you under oath without any compulsion, voluntarily. Is that true?
A. I was not forced to sign them but the situation meant in effect that I had to sign them.
Q. Do you mean to say that you did not sign them voluntarily?
A. That is difficult to say, since my state of health at the time in effect made it impossible for me to control my own initiative.
Q. You admit that your oral testimony now to a large extent contradicts your written testimony?
A. Yes.
Q. Both testimonies were under oath. You admit that?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, where are three possibilities, either your written testimony was false, or the testimony which you are making now is false, or both are false. Which of these three possibilities do you consider the proper one?
A. I should like to say that during the interrogations I was mistaken in many parts in the conclusions wnich I drew from the documents which were shown to me and from the statements of the interrogator.
Q. Are you aware about the affidavits, which you in part repudiate now, can be submitted in other *** ** evidence?
A. Since you put this *** yes.
Q. Are you also aware that in the basis on these affidavits in other trials a picture may arise which do *** correspond to the truth?
A. Yes.
Q. Now that is your petition; do you want to repudiate all your former testimony?
A. I can only maintain the testimony which *** made here now.
Q. Upon the charge could be raised against you of giving false testimony under path; now if that charge should be raised against you, what would you say?
A. I did not do that consciously.
Q. Thank you, *** further questions.
MR. PRESIDENT: *** question to the witness on behalf of defense counsel. There *********** may re-cross examine the witness.
MR. HARDY: I have no further questions to put to the witness, Your Honor.
MR. PRESIDENT: There being no further questions to be propounded to the witness, the witness is excused from the stand to resume his place in the deck.
Is there any further evidence to be offered in behalf of the defendant Rudolf Brandt?
DR. KAUFMANN: Mr. President, I should like to submit a few more affidavits, which are in my document book, and two further affidavits, which I obtained later, but there are only three brief affidavits which I should like to read, and I shall refer to the contents of the rest of the affidavits. In my Document book on page 2, I shall read the affidavit of the witness Gottleb Berger. I identify this defendant as Rudolf Brandt No. 3; Berger was an SS Obergruppenfuehrer and a general in the Waffen SS. I shall read beginning with paragraph 3:
In my Document book on page 2, I shall read the affidavit of the witness Gottleb Berger. I identity this complement as Rudolf Brandt No. 3; Berger was as Obergruppenfuehrer and a general in the Waffen SS. I shall read beginning with paragraph 3:
"I never know Rudolf Brandt to be present when I repeated to Himmler, but I know that Himmler called for Rudolf Brandt, rang for him, and either dictated to him or gave him instructions."
This is on page 2 in my German Document book. Shall I read this paragraph again? -- Paragraph 4:
"As far as I could see, it was absolutely out of question that Brandt, in spite of his extraordinary industry, ever had a position of adviser to Himmler. For that he was far too small and insignificent. He had, according to observations I made over several, years, the position of a chief-clerk. I know that he was overworked. Being a loyal and industrious worker he put up with being burdened with more and more work which it was impossible for him to accomplish.
"I could not see that he was a confidant of Himmler either, for Himmler had no confidants. Anyhow, Rudolf Brandt did not belong to the circle of persons who had closer contact with Himmler. " And then I should like to read the last two paragraphs:
"I know that police matters were not dealt with by Rudolf Brandt. Himmler limited strictly the competence of his subordinates.
"Rudolf Brand's private life was a model of propriety; he always was helpful and decent. Therefore, with his soft nature I think that it is out of question that he could have taken part in any crimes against humanity."
Then there follows the signature and the certificate.
Now, I shall read the affidavit of Dr. Martin on page 11 of the German Document Book.
MR. HARDY: May it please Your Honor each one of these affidavits, eighteen pages of them, are in substance the same. I think there might be a more expedient manner than reading each and every document and each and every paragraph thereof.
DR. KAUFLANN: Mr. President, I intend to read only two more documents, which are brief.
THE PRESIDENT: The counsel for the defense may proceed.
DR. KAUFLANN: Dr. Martin says in Paragraph 4.
THE PRESIDENT: What number do you assign to this exhibit?
DR. KAUFLANN: Rudolf Brandt No. 4, Mr. President.
"I made the acquaintance of Rudolf Brandt on the occasion of my making reports to Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler. Rudolf Brandt was, as far as I could see, definitely in a subordinate position. If I had known his formal rank in the Personnel Department of Himmler, I would have taken him for a clerk.
"I relate you this as an example:
"In the autumn of 1944 Rudolf Brandt was called into the office of the Special train by Himmler by ringing a bell. I was there together with Himmler. After having made my reports to him, Rudolf Brandt entered the office and took shorthand notes dictated to him by Himmler. Himmler did not even ask Rudolf Brandt to take a seat. He stood at the table taking notes. After having finished with his dictation, Himmler sent him out again. The subject of my report was an economic matter."
The next document which I should like to read is the document on page 8 of the German Document book, Exhibit No. 5 from Medizinalrat Dr. Felix Kerstom. This is the same man whom the defendant, Professor Gebhardt, has mentioned; it was the Finnish doctor of Himmler.
"I herewith declare under oath that I have personally known Dr. Rudolf Brandt since 1939. He was always a properly disposed person, who was ready to help, and always strongly rejected any force or brutality. During my rescue work that I carried out in Germany during the war years of 1943 1945, at the request of the Swedish Government, and the Jewish World Congress in New York, with the result of having rescued and brought to Sweden, thoursands of people from Nazi concentration camps, I often came in contact with Dr. Rudolf Brandt. I found in him an honest and enthusiastic co-worker, and always had his full support in even the most complicated cases. This often placed him in a difficult position with Himmler. Without his unselfish and humane assistance, it would not have been possible to so successfully carry out this rescue work.
"Dr. Brandt was an idealist and knew no enmity and no hatred toward the Allies. On the contrary, and understanding with all nations on a peaceful basis was his goal. He often told me that he considered this war as madness and as a crime against humanity.