By making inquiries I found out that Dr. Roehrs had ordered the Post Office and Registration Office at the Reich Chamber of physicians not to open such envelopes, but to deliver then sealed, whereas it was the custom to open all the incoming mail except letters marked 'secret' or 'confidential'. When I found out those facts I told Dr. Blome about it. He became very angry and indignant and shared my opinion that he was being watched by Dr. Conti in this way and that he was to be excluded from all important transactions of the office of the Reich Physicians' Leader.
"Such dealings continued and were not done away with. I have not the slightest doubt that these letters were official matters, for such large maid packets used to come in several times a week, according to my observation. In discussing such events, Dr Blome complained to me frequently and express: his opinion that he, as deputy head of the Reich Chamber of physicians, shoe.' be informed of rail occurrences because he was responsible.
"10) Dr. Blome told me once, I believe in 1943, that he had placed his offices at the disposal of Dr. Conti. Also, in case his resignation from his offices should not be accepted, he asked to be allowed to take his turn with Dr. Conti in going to the front. He told me and the consultants of the Reich Chamber of Physicians, that the reason for this was that his fundamental differences with Dr. Conti made profitable collaboration impossible. Later Dr. Blome told me that Dr. Conti had refused his request, saying that during the war everyone had to remain at the post to which he had been assigned. Or another occasion Dr. Blome told me that during the course of a discussion with the chief of the Party Chancellery he had also put his offices at their disposed and had asked for another position, but again he had been unsuccesful.
The next paragraph, number 11, I do not have to read into the record but I ask that judicial notice be taken of it. It clarifies the two contrasting opinions of these two gentlemen concerning population policy. Then there follows number 12. It reads:
"12) It came to my knowledge during my work at the Reich Chamber of Physicians, that Dr. Dingeldey, one of the consultants at the Reich Chamber of Physicians, on his own initiative, talked to various influential person alities of the Party, particularly the Reich Minister of the Interior, Dr. Frick, and Reichsleiter Rosenberg, in order to enlighten them about the view of the people, about tho mismanagement inside the Party, and about the undignified behavior of leading Party personalities.
Dr. Dingeldey himself repeatedly told me of these efforts of his and also informed me that he had previously discussed these steps with Dr. Blome. Dr. Blome had expressed complete agreement and welcomed that Dr. Dingeldey, also was giving these explanations to the loading personalities, because he, Dr. Blome, himself could not achieve anything.
"13) Concerning the question of Professor Dr. Blome's attitude to questions of medical professional ethics. I can, on the basis of my activity in the Reich Chamber of Physicians, swear to the following on oath: In discussions with myself and with the medical consultants, Dr. Blome always so that the laws of the medical professional ethics must be held high, doctors must make professional ethics the alpha and omega of the practice of their profession. For instance, he frequently compared the medical profession with the clergy, and said that man in distress never reveals himself to people in other callings as openly as he does to a priest or a doctor. It was therefore the physicians' duty wholly and fully to justify this faith which their patients put in then. I was the physicians' duty not only to help there patients in their physical suffering, but also to assist and help them in their mental distress. Dr. Blome spoke in this way not only to me but also to other doctors, when I happened to be present, and he expressed this same view also in speeches at which I was present."
(signed) "Adolf Wittmann" Mr. Wittman, at the beginning of his statement, in No. 3, states that from February 1937 until the capitulation he worked in the Reich Chamber of Physicians under Dr. Blome.
That is, then, Blome Document No. 8, Exhibit No. 14.
How, in the Supplemental Document Volume 1, of the Document Book Blome, I came to Document No. 10, Exhibit No. 15. This is an affidavit of Dr Dingeldey, whose name was just mentioned in the affidavit just read. This affidavit also is sworn to and the signature appropriately certified.
Dr. Dingeldey says in his introduction that he was a librarian and consultant in the Reich Chamber of Physicians; that he was born in 1893. I do not believe I have to read No. 1; it contains an outline of Dr. Dingeldey's career. No. 2 I can also omit reading, I believe. It discusses Dr. Blome's official positions, which has already been made perfectly clear by the defendant's and other persons' testimony here. No. 3 concerns itself with the relations between Dr. Conti and his deputy, Dr. Blome, and says:
"3) If I am asked on what terms Dr. Conti and his deputy Dr. Blome were with each other, I could only say from my own experience, that it was rather disagreeable, and that the differences of opinion between the two men made a regular cooperation extraordinarily difficult. At the beginning, before Dr. Conti took up his position as lead of the Reich Medical Chamber, Dr. Blome repeatedly advised us (the technical advisers of the Reich Medical Chamber), that it was absolutely imperative that we obey the orders of the now Head, Dr. Conti. But shortly afterwards, relations between Dr. Blome and Dr. Conti became strained....."
I need not read the rest of that paragraph. It agrees with the previously real statements of the witness, Wittmann. I now continue at the end of this "Dr. Blome, on the other hand, showed a frank and honest character during all the time we worked together; he treated us in a friendly way and we had the impression that he was certainly not dishonest with us.
"4) In the course of time, the relations between Dr. Conti and Dr. Blome became worse and worse. I was never present at private discussions between Dr. Conti and Dr. Blome, and I never heard anything about them from Dr. Conti, he never talked to me or to other technical advisers about his personal affairs. Dr. Blome, on the other hand, took us into his confidence; he was so filled with the difficulties resulting from his relation to Dr. Conti, that he referred to them time and time again.
and often opened his heart to me as he used to do among his friends. Through this information by Dr. Blome we often received confirmation of the existing difficulties which we had already expected and feared from the beginning.
"5) The main difference between Dr. Conti and Dr. Blome was with regard to the way in which the Medical profession was to be organized. Dr. Blome always tried to free the medical profession and its organizations as far as possible from party political influences; he therefore tried to dissolve the common leadership of the Reichs Chamber of physicians (Reichsaerztekammer) and the leadership of the main Office for Public Health (Hauptamt fuer Volksgesundheit) because the letter was an outspoken Party office. Dr. Conti, on the other hand, had a plan of socializing the medical profession and of making the physicians into public officials. This plan was strongly opposed by Dr. Blome. He was interested in maintaining the medical profession as an independent profession..."
I shall omit reading No. 6 which follows and I ask you to take judicial notice of it. It also describes, as Wittmann also did, the time aggravations of the relations between Conti and Blome. I continue now with No. 7:
"I myself jointed the party before 1933, out of pure idealism, because I believed in the ......."
MR. HARDY: Would it be possible to have the important sections of this long affidavit incorporated into the record without necessitating the reading of it aloud in open court, as was done in Tribunal No. 2, whereby the court reported takes the sections mentioned by counsel and incorporates them into the official transcript in liew of reading them aloud, as a time-saving device?
THE PRESIDENT: I am not advised as to whether or not Tribunal No. 2 has the electric recording device. I think that if counsel for defendant desires to read these matters into the record he should be allowed to do so. He will not ready anything into the record that he does not deem necessary, I am sure.
DR. SAUTER: I ask the court to take judicial notice of No. 7 in which Dr. Dingeldey describes his effort with the knowledge and on orders of Blome, his efforts to straighten things cut and to improve the relations with Dr. Conti in which efforts, however, he was unsuccessful. I can read one paragraph from this Number:
"Only Dr. Blome had more self-control than I and did not demonstrate externally his disappointment about the development of the Hitler Regime as I did. From numerous conversations which I had with Dr. Blome after 1939 I know for certain that he, for instance disliked the war policy of Hitler as decidedly as I did."
Then No. 8 treats the same question as the privious affidavit did, namely, why Dr. Blome despite all those difficultieo remained in his office and why he did not simply withdraw. Since this has already been clarified, I think I need only refer to this No. 8.
Now No. 9 concerns Dr. Blome's attitude regarding medical ethics. I should like to read that Number. about Dr. Blome's attitude towards medical ethics. "From my own observations I can state the following: Dr. Blome had a very high ethical opinion of the medical profession. He often told me that he wanted clean, decent, helpful plysicians; he was especially anxius about this. He emphasized repeatedly that a physician should always be up to the mark with his scientific knowledge, and that a country doctor should always be the cultural center of his village. He repeatedly told me that the motto of a physician should always be to help and to cure, no natter whether those in need of help are Christians or Jews."
That is a direct quotation from Dr. Blome.
"Once he said to me -- " and again this is a direct quotation:
"The thousand-year-old Reich may perish, but medical science and medical ethics will remain forever." By the "thousand-year-old Reich" he meant the Third Reich of Adolf Hitler who always spoke about a thousand-year-old rule of national Socialism.
"On another occasion he said to me: "In a hundred years no one will speak of this politician or that but a great physician or scientist will be spoken about in three hundred or four hundred years."
No. 10 I also should like to read. It concerns Blome's attitude toward Euthanasia. In other words, it is a matter on which the Prosecution has laid particular stress. No. 10:
"I have never heard that the Reich Chamber of Physicians or the Main Health Office of the NSDAP had anything to do officially with the question of Euthanasia. I knew nothing of the incoming or outgoing papers of both offices as I was a librarian and this did not concern me. Here important matters were discussed regularly by the technical advisers, sometimes at general conferences, but mainly, however, by the individual technical advisers unofficially among themselves. If our office had anything to do with such an imortant matter as the Euthanasia Program, it would certainly have been discussed repeatedly among we technical advisors.
"My attention was drawn to the Euthanasia problem for the first time during the war through a letter by Professor Dr. Klare -- " and let me remark that this is the same Dr. Klare whose affidavit I put in evidence, Document No. 2, Document Book No. 1 for Blome. This affidavit new continues:
"This physician, had been working formerly in Bavaria. No had a sanitarium for children suffering from tuberculosis in Bavarian Allgaeu, and I made his acquaintance then as representative of the pharmaceutical factories.
This acquaintance developed into a lasting friendship, and I corresponded for years with Professor Dr. Klare. Professor Dr. Klare wrote to me then that he had heard that insane people were being killed in the lunatic asylums, and that this was being done secretly without any special law. Professor Dr. Klare was averse to such a solution and was of the opinion that this Euthanasia problem must be regulated by a special law. In this way I found out about the Euthanasia problem. At that time I also saw the file "I accuse" which dealt with the Euthanasia problem. I am asked: how is it possible that the Reich Chamber of Physicians and its Deputy Director, Dr. Blome, had nothing to do with Euthanasia and did not receive any official information about it, although Dr. Conti had played an important part in the Euthanasia program, as State Secretary at the Reich Ministry of the Interior.
"I can explain this in the following way: I know that Dr. Donci was State Secretary at the Reich Ministry of the Interior and as such was in charge of the Public Health Administration. He was not, however, represented in this capacity by Dr. Blome. As far as I know, Dr. Blome was not com.wtetent and had not rights as Senate Secretary at the Reich Ministry of the Interior."
I shall not read No. 11. It concerns matters of the population policy. I ask you, please, to take judicial notice of it.
This affidavit, as I said, is correctly sworn to and the signature certified. This concludes for the time being my treatment of the Blome case. I must reserve for myself the right to submit a few additional documents in the future which have not yet arrived, and, perhaps, authority to call the witness, Porwitschky, who so far has not been found apparently.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, the Tribunal now has the second supplement to Blome's Document Book containing Documents 15 and 16. Counsel may offer those documents now if he desires to do so.
DR. SAUTER: There is a second supplementary volume to the Blome Document Book which has new been submitted to the Court which contains only two documents. The first is Document Blome No. 15, which carries Exhibit No. Blome 16, and the other is Document No. 16, which I give as Exhibit No. Blome 17. The first of these documents, Document Blome No. 15, is a verv brief report by berstabsarzt Professor Dr. Wirth, a man who has frequently been named in the course of this trial. This is the same Professor Wirth of whom there is to be found an affidavit in the Blome Document Book Supplementary Volume, Document No. 12, Exhibit No. 13. This document, which I shall now read and which is very brief, is an excerpt from a book that has been submitted to the Court in another connection, and of which other passages have been put in evidence by their defense counsel. This passage which I am about to put in has not yet been read. It is an excerpt to a Report on the 4th Conference "East" of the Consulting Physicians on l6 and 17 May 1944 at the SS-hospital Hohonlychen. Lecturer: Professor Wirth about "Enemy Sabotage with Poisons". This document is being introduced by me in connect in with the general case of biological warfare. Professor Wirth says on "Pages 49 - 51:
"The use of poisons for purposes of sabotage has been clearly prohibited to the Germans by order of the Fuehrer. The enemy has, however, already used this dirty method reportedly during this war. It is therefore necessary, as a defense measure, to face these facts reasonably and with an open mind. Sabotage by the enemy consists mainly in poisoning food and drinks, which are to be supplied to the troops, and also to individual important civilians. International over-dosing with very strong drugs, such as morphine, pantopen, etc., by the foreign nursing staff, as was ascertained in some cases, seems to play a lesser role. The intentional poisoning of chemical processes in the technical field is of no importance medically and will not, therefore, be discussed here."
The number 2 concerns itself with the capillary poison colchichine which is also used as poison for purposes of sabotage.
Then number 3, "The effect of atropine can easily be recognized in the manifestations of actual poisoning, and, as has been proved, was often added to morning coffee by the Russian auxiliary staff.
Occasionally it was found injected into eggs with the result that liquor made with such eggs was poisoned with atropine."
And then number 6 says, "Furthermore, the coline derivate, doryl, and, among the anorganic poisons, sublimate and potassium cyanide should be mentioned: these have also been used as poisons for purposes of sabotage."
And now I come to my last document for the time being, Document 16, Exhibit Blome 17. This is an excerpt from a book "Publications by the Berlin Academy for further Medical Training No. 6". Then the book is entitled "A cross section of the latest results of medical science" 'presented by their originators. It is "A series of lectures sponsored by the Berlin Academy for further Medical Training, Berlin."
In this book you can see what efforts Blome made, even during the War, to advance medical science and inform about results obtained in the whole medical profession. I should like to read now just one excerpt which is on page 5, an article by Dr. Blome himself, under the title of "Health Guidance and Science". To save time I shall not read the article word for word, but shall ask you to take judicial notice of the contents of this article so that you may be given a picture of Dr. Blome's efforts in this field and his attitude in these matters. If I may briefly summarize the contents, Blome first of all emphasizes the fact that the health authorities and medical science should stand in closest relationship, that the health authorities should always be informed of latest scientific developments, and further that only sufficiently trained and certified doctors should be allowed to practice. Then, the defendant Blome makes further remarks to the effect that the freedom of medical science should be respected and that the experiments should not be made to impose on scientists a certain line. The scientists should make their discoveries and knowledge available to the general practitioners. And, then Dr. Blome points out the particular importance of early diagnosis, namely the diagnosis which is necessary in the case of cancer and tuberculosis if the disease is to be effectively combated, for certain groups of diseases can be the were effectively combated the earlier they are diagnosed.
And Dr. Blome says in this connection that Germany has justly done away with the right of letting practitioners practice so that not any quack or any ignoramous can have access to sick persons. He concludes with the words which I will read: "Science must remain science and must not degenerate into wild experiments and into a more or less irresponsible empiricism."
Herewith, Mr. President, I for the time being conclude my defense of the defendant Blome. I thank you for the large period of time that you have made available to us for this presentation.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel reserves the right to offer further evidence in behalf of his defense, which privilege is reserved to him. I would like to make clear one matter. Then document is admitted in evidence before the Tribunal, whether it is read or not, that document becomes a part of the record in this case and may be used by counsel for either side for any purpose -- be referred to in brief or argument or examination of a witness. Correctly speaking, the Tribunal does not take judicial notice of such documents. It takes notice of thorn as part of the record before the Tribunal, and the Tribunal in preparing its judgment, after consideration, gives to all evidence in the case such weight as the Tribunal deems they are entitled to. It is a matter of small consequence, but the term 'judicial notice' is used concerning certain extraneous matters which need not be offered in evidence, such as laws, or treaties between countries, or many documents. Now, certain of those documents if that class the Tribunal takes judicial notice of them without requiring that they be offered in evidence. But, as to a document which has been offered and received in evidence, that is before the Tribunal for consideration, whether it be read into the record or not. Anything to add? Certain documents of which the Tribunal take judicial notice are the Control Law No. 10, Ordinance No. 7, certain matters of common knowledge, and that is provided in Control Law No. 10 which governs this Tribunal's procedure -- that the Tribunal shall take judicial notice of such matters.
Counsel may ascertain from examining Central Law No. 10 matters of which this Tribunal does take judicial notice. I said the Matter is of no particular concern but so frequently the term judicial notice is used whom it is really not applicable to the particular situation in the phase in which it is used.
The Tribunal will recess until 1330.
AFTERNOON SESSION
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the court room will please find their seats.
The Tribunal is again in session. May it please Your Honors, the defendant Brack having been excused from the morning session has again taken his place in Court.
THE PRESIDENT: Is the defendant Rudolf Brandt ready to proceed with his case?
DR. KAUFMAN (For the Defendant, Rudolf Brandt):
Mr. President, this how I plan the case of defendant Brandt. First I intend to read a brief affidavit of the witness, Schellenberg, and then following that I would like to examine the witness Otto Meine and, then I want to examine the defendant Brandt as a witness.
THE PRESIDENT: The procedure suggested by counsel is satisfactory. You may proceed.
DR. KAUFMAN: In my document book on page 16 there is an affidavit of the witness Walter Scollenberg. I submit this as Rud If Brandt Exhibit No. 1. Now I should like to read his statement:
"I, Walter Schellenberg -" I need not read the introduction. I has the usual preamble and I begin with No. 1, and quote:
"1. I have known Dr. Rudolf Brandt since the year 1939; I became more closely acquainted with him in the year 1942. Because of his good education and his quiet, reserved manner I preferred him, as far as official contacts were concerned, to all those surrounding Himmler, who, in part, led a kind of life that was contrary to the decency and abstinence of Rudolf Brandt.
"I claimed Rudolf Brandt especially in order to attain suitable and quick conferences with Himmler. I personally was finally SS-Brigadefuehrer, and Brigadier-general of the Waffen SS, professionally Chief of the Office VI and Mil" -- that means Military Intelligence Service -- "of the Reich Main Security Office. The offices included the German 'Intelligence Service' abroad (politically and militarily) "2. From 1943 onwards I informed Rudolf Brandt about my efforts to secure peace and other endeavors in the interests of humanity.
In this particular respect Brandt always supported me.
When in difficult individual cases my efforts with Himmler were successful, then his continuous support undoubtedly helped to effect this through securing me interviews.
"If I have mentioned my efforts for securing peace in the above statement, then I may add to this the following remark:
"Already in 1942 I recognized the military defeat awaiting Germany. I tried by legal and illegal means to do what I possibly could in order to help to bring about the termination of the War. In my capacity as Chief of the German Foreign News Service I entered into numerous connections with foreign personalities for this purpose, people whom I would not like to name now for specific reasons. My name is, however, known in foreign circles, and indeed in connect in with my attempts to end the War.
"I occasionally drew Rudolf Brandt's attention to the political aspects, even if he could not recognize the general aspects because of the lack of essential prerequisites in his education.
"As to Rudolf Brandt's character, about which I an entitled to give an accurate opinion, I remark what follows:
"Because of his ability as a perfect stenographer, his punctuality, his untiring diligence, he became Himmler's convenient, always attainable, I should say registering, writing and reminding machine. Rudolf Brandt always reminded me of a writing mechanism; as only such a type of person can, on the one hand complain about being overworked, and on the other hand declare with pride that he had to produce 3000 to 4000 outgoing letters per month. I repeatedly saw him step out of Himmler's room with many stenographers. His office, and in part if's floor, was completely littered with documents. I know that Himmler was afraid of sending letters bearing his signature directly to a third person, dictated them to Rudolf Brandt in order to remain in an anonymous background. Since Himmler showed only one side of his character to Brandt, and therefore understood how to attach Rudolf Brandt to himself in a psychologically very clever manner, Brandt too lost the ability to judge Himmler correctly. Rudolf Brandt has certainly frequented a university but he has at the rest an average general education, since during the course of the years he could not improve his education in consequence of his tremendous professional activities.
"According to my convictions Rudolf Brandt would never have been able to participate in any way whatever in offences or crimes against humanity. Nurnberg, 7 February, 1947."
And then a signature and a certificate.
THE PRESIDENT: Now counsel I notice in the translation in the third paragraph, the fourth line of the English document, referring to the Chief of Office IV, in the document book it was translated VI, which is correct?
DR. KAUFMAN: Six is right. Now I ask that the witness Meine be called to the stand.
THE PRESIDENT: The Marshal will summon the witness, August Meine.
AUGUST MEINE, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SEBRING: Hold up your right hand and be sworn repeating: I swear by God, The Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SEBRING: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. KAUFMANN:
Q. You are the witness, August Meine?
A. Yes.
Q. When were you born?
A. I was born on the 13th of October, 1916.
Q. Mr. Meine, you were one of the closest associates of Brandt for several years. You were often his Deputy. Now I should like to question you about a group of facts, and for that reason I shall ask you a few specific questions right away. I should like to know your observations you made on the staff of the Reichsfuehrer-SS. I should like to know how you saw the personality of Brandt, how you saw the personality of Himmler, and the influence which Himmler had on his environment, including Brandt. Finally I should like to know from you how the daily work on the personal staff was carried out, how Brandt worked specifically, how extensive his work was, and how his signature on very important documents can be explained. Would you please first explain your position in the personal department?
A. I was a Lieutenant in the German Army and had been transferred to the Waffen-SS when I entered the personal staff of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler on the 1st of November 1940. After having had six weeks to get used to the work, I represented Dr. Brandt for the first time for a period of fourteen days. Since this experiment was successful, it was intended that I should be able to represent him even in the future. The division of our work apart from these periods where I represented him, after Himmler since the middle of 1941 had removed his headquarters from Berlin, was that I was to be in charge of the office at Berlin, and then, after November, 1943, after we had been bombed out in Berlin, I was to take over the evacuated office of the personal staff of Himmler.
There I had assembled most of the clerks and a few collaborators, whereas Dr. Brandt was continually escorting Himmler himself. Finally I was promoted to SS-Sturmbannfuehrer, a position which corresponds to the rank of a major.
Q. In order to make your position clear, and in order to explain to the Tribunal what the personal staff of Reichsfuehrer Himmler looked like, I shall now show you a sketch prepared by Rudolf Brandt and ask you to comment on this sketch and perhaps explain it briefly.
DR. KAUFMANN: In my document book, Mr. President, this sketch is on page 1. I offer it as exhibit Rudolf Brandt No. 2.
MR. HARDY: May it please Your Honor, this sketch that is being offered as Exhibit No. 1, I have no objection as to the admission of this into evidence, but it seems to me that it could contain the names of the people that hold down the various jobs. He has the titles of the various organizations, but it is going to be rather difficult for the Prosecution and I assume the Tribunal to follow the organizational setup without the names of the personalities fitting into each block. I wonder if it would be possible to have a chart of this type made later and perhaps submitted with the names of the particular people there.
DR. KAUFMANN: Mr. President, of course I can fulfill the wish of the Prosecutor, but I don't believe that will be necessary. I think it would be enough if the Tribunal sess in general how the personal staff was organized. In my opinion, the names of the individual persons are not important, I would only hamper the Tribunal if names were given because these names were constantly changing, of course; but, as I have said, I will be glad to fulfill this wish especially if it is also the wish of the Tribunal to have these names given.
THE PRESIDENT: I think it might be convenient to the Tribunal if at least some of the higher names were filled in so that one could get an idea from whom the chart stems.
BY DR. KAUFMANN:
Q. Witness, would you be in a position in spite of tho complicated nature of the personal staff to say which people held these various positions?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have the chart?
A. No.
Q. One preliminary question, Mr. Meine, what you have before you is the personal staff of the Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, is that true?
A. Yes.
Q. Is it also true that this entire personal staff was a so-called Main Office, Hauptamt?
A. It was considered to be a Main Office, but this staff had a different meaning.
Q. May I ask one more question first: how many such Main Offices were there in Germany?
A. The Reichsfuehrsung- SS was composed of twelve Main Offices. Tho personal staff was one of these Main Offices.
Q. How many persons were there in this personal staff of Himmler, approximately?
A. Approximately five hundred persons, but this figure fluctuated during the course of the War since a number of tasks received more emphasis while other tasks had to be neglected.
Q. Now please explain this sketch in a few words.
A. Yes. May I say at first that the personal staff comprised the immediate circle of collaborators of Himmler, upon whom he relied for t he personal dealing with his own affairs, and in addition, a number of agencies which for material reasons could not be placed in the other Main Offices, and for that reason, for reasons of simplicity, were attached to this personal staff.
Q. What was the name of the Chief of the personal staff?
A. The name of the Chief of the personal staff was SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Wolf. He only held this position up to the time he received a command in Italy. As far as I remember, that happened towards the end of '43.
Q. And after 1943 who was Chief of the personal staff?
A. Afterwards nobody became Chief of the personal staff. The tasks as far as they could not be dealt with by Himmler personally, were dealt with by the Chief of Staff, SS-Standartenfuehrer Baumert -
Q. Please look at the sketch and explain whether the next box with the word "Stabsfuehrer", staff manager, whether that was the person you have just mentioned?
A. The box "Stabsfuehrer", staff manager, was held by SS-Standartenfuehrer Baumert.
Q. What was the position of the Stabsfuehrer?
A. He was responsible for personnel matters concerning the entire staff. He was in charge of the budget of vehicles, transportation, and moreover, was the disciplinary superior of all the members of the staff. That applied to male and female members of the staff.
Q. Now, please explain the next row.
A. The next row comprises the offices which dealt with special tasks, tasks to which Himmler attached value, and which had not found a place in the other Main Offices. Starting from the lefthand side we find the office Annenorbe which concerns itself with the scientific hobbies of Himmler. That is pre-historical research work there and other literary research work originating from Germanic culture in which Himmler was interested.
Q Do you know who was in charge of this office?
A Yes, this office, "Ahnenerbe" had a president and that was Himmler himself. Then it had a scientific curator, who was a university professor, Dr. Wuest. The latter was a director of the University of Munich. In addition, this office had a business manager, who was SS-Standartenfuehrer Wolfram Sievers.
Q I think that will be enough. Now go on to the next office.
A The second office was the "Raw Materials Office". When, during the course of the war, more and more spheres of human activity were dealt with by the State in an increasing measure, the Reichsfuehrer-SS deemed it to be correct to see that not every Main Office should register their needs with State authorities on their own behalf, but that all these applications and requests be centralized in one spot and from there to be sent on to the Ministry of Economics or the Ministry of Armaments or the Agency for the Four Year Plan.
Q Who was the head of this office?
A The head of this office was SS-Standartenfuehrer Kloth.
Q That will be enough.
A. Yes.
Q Now the next one.
A The next office comprised a castle in Westphalia where the ReichsfuehrerSS collected a number of valuables of a historic and artistic nature. This office was intended by him as a place of meeting with high SS leaders. However, that never came into effect during the war. The castle hadn't been finished yet.
Q And who was head of this?
A The head was SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Taubert. The next office is the Office "Lebenshorn." This office dealt with the care for mothers of illegitimate children. It had a number of maternity homes in Germany, were mothers were cared for a few weeks pro-natally and after their children had been brought into the world. The head of this office was SS-Standartenfuehrer Max Sellmann.
The next office, the Office 'Fahrenkamp', dealt with tasks of an architectural nature, and interior architectural nature. It drafted furniture for farmers and made plans in connection with other house furniture which was needed far the SS. The head of this office was Sturmbannfuehrer Fahrenkamp -- the name is spelled on the chart. Connected with that was the Office "Munich", where drafts were worked out for porcelain objects which were manufactured in the porcelain factories owned by the SS. The head of this office was SS-Oberfuehrer Diebitsch. But this man spent a great number of the war years with the army, so that this office was also under the previously mentioned officer, SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Fahrenkamp.
Q The so-called main sections which fellow now, the main departments in the fourth row-- did they also have chiefs when you could name?
A Yes. The main departments listed in the next row comprised the collaborators of Himmler, those other persons on whom he relied for tho handling of his personal affairs. It starts with the Main Department 'Registry," which was divided into two departments, which were independent of one another. On the one hand there was the Registry for Top Secret Matters and then there was the Registry for Public or Open Directives. The head was SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Treusch.
Then follows the Main Department 'Administration,' which dealt with the budget for the personal staff. The head was an SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer, Mohr.
The next department was 'Economic Aid'. This office originated from peacetime when the Reichsfuehrer-SS planned special measures intended for these SS members who had come into economic need, not by their own fault.
This office issued loans to a large extent. The head was an SS-Sturmbannfuehrer, r. Fitzner.