This order shows how different conditions were with the Waffen SS compared to the Army, as to research medical officers and to their organized medical service. The Waffen SS wont into the War with individual elite troops, and it can already be seen from the provious description; how unfortunate it was that they were employed at critical points with the Army, for the connection and contact in personnel and material, however, was so loose that it always was that the divisions of the Waffen SS always wore rather badly supported. On the other hand it was very difficult to direct these units from home, because in the first years the divisions were not together but were distributed all over the front. The almost outrageous improvisation is shown by the fact that these almost enormously good volunteers were supplied with physicians who were relatively young, and did not have any experience from the last War. In addition to that, we who were the higher superiors in the Waffen SS, and that as Reich physician in the last war were more young officers that doctors, and also I myself had the experience in the last War and Genzken only had it from the Navy. I made it my task to take care of the most surmountable difficulties providing medical supplies to the front, and untangle this matter in the Waffen SS. Therefore, you see in this order, I, unlike the consulting medical officers in the Army, did not travel around individually, but was traveling with a so-called Lehrstab, training staff, that I traveled from division with fully trained medical officers of all kinds, in order to supply this Waffen SS with its few divisions. Since, I myself lacked any combat experience as a surgeons, I first of all want with the Army in the Norway campaign I remained there with the Army and Waffen SS as combat surgeon in Belguim, in Holland and in France, until the time I was wounded, and thus I worked myself up from front medical officer to the division medical officer and consultant.
A. the time I had the advantage that from Hehenlychen, I had good contacts with the army, the Luftwaffe and all the agencies, so that with comradely collaboration I was able to make my requests everywhere, and was able to obtain assistance for our young heroic troops who did not have any tradition. I therefore was not located anywhere in healquarters army office in Berlin, but for six or eight months of the year I was at the front and then I was at Hehenlychen for at least three or four months in order to carry out my mere important operations. In the meantime, I always went to the staff at headquarters with the worries and requests with which I was burdened.
Q. In your affidavit cf the 12th of December, 1946, which was presented by the prosecution as exhibit 25, you stated th t in August of 1943 the position of a chief clinical off icer was established by for the SS and police, and that from December 1, 1943, this position was taken ever by you; what tasks did you have in your capacity as chief clinical officer.
A. The attempt to establish the position of a chief clinical officer, which was discontinued after several months, had the only purpose that its use might be tactical at the front. I had experience, of the retreat from Rostov in 1941 or 1942, I have been in Italy at the time of the invasion cf Tunis, and was also at Donez, and saw how impossible the medical supply was which was given to the Waffen SS, we ware very loosely connected with the army at the time. We only had two decisions to make; either, as we learned afterwards was absolutely correct, that the Waffen SS was to be entirely absorbed by the army and that the whole replacement of personnel and material was to be routed via the army. Himmler always opposed this idea, because he had the idea that his Waffen SS should be independent in the future , and I shall go into this later.
Or the other hand, when I came back from Donez from a plane crash with other wounded, it could be seen what conditions were in practice with tho Waffen SS. In the area from Kiev and further back we had one, two or three fighting Waffen SS divisions. The wounded above all tho leaders, were not to be let out of the hands of the Waffen SS, and they were not to be lost to any other hospitals at home. It was practically impossible to carry out this order of Himmler. Behind these fighting divisions, we had various kinds of hospital installations of the SS. The SS consisted of fourteen main offices, and the Waffen SS in the course of the war became one of the biggest and strongest, however, at that time we also had the Main Office of the Police, with approximately one million people. It was much stronger than the Waffen SS and had a staff of 350 physicians. The surgeons who were there had already been tested in the last war and also during their practice in peace time.
In all the cities in the Ukraine next to each other in disorderly fashion street stations and detachments of police, police stations or dental stations, and the Volksdeusche Mittelstelle whose work was to take care of civilian matters. We also had Red Cross establishments. On the whole, it can be seen that the Waffen SS had the material at its disposal, the police had the trained personnel, and the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle bad the best hospitals, which they bad taken from the Russians. At that time, I suggested in my draft to Himmler either to subordinate tho entire Waffen SS to the Army and to turn over all the material to the Army or, and this was refused and disapproved by a decision of the Fuehrer, that the Waffen SS, the police and the Volksdeutsche Mittelstelle, that is the three big main offices who were represented at the front and closely behind the front, should be coordinated in one clinical system.
That was the reorganization discussion which Genzken already mentioned yesterday. In this respect, it was important for me that with each senior SS and Police Commander vis with the immediate representative of Himmler in the rear echelon, three in Russia, one for Belgium, one for France and one for Italy, one chief medical officer should be established, and that to him tho whole material of the Waffen SS, the Police and all the formations within, was to be placed at his disposal, and I was to be in charge of this clinical Set-up. The prerequisite was that tho police had to be brought over to this point of view first, and that Dr. Hock, one of our most experienced combat physician should take over tho office. So that through this union no differences should exist any more between the Waffen SS and the police. Then we were to establish jointly supply depots and hospitals and in this way we wanted to try to keep tho more lightly wounded members of the Waffen SS as close as possible to the front without losing them by distributing them to various branches. I first established this in the Ukraine, when tho collapse took place in Italy; I was called to Italy from tho 12th September till Monte Cassino, about tho end of October; then, in tho meantime Dr. Hock, who was to carry out the reorganization in the police, ho had succeeded in being transferee, back through Stumpfegger. Of all these tactical experiments very little remained in existence. It is true that Grawitz used this reorganization in order to gain from his antagonist towards Genzken certain advantages, which had nothing whatever to do with my suggestion.
In the years 1944 and 1945 I was in quite a different position with the Army group, which I have already mentioned.
Q I believe that I have to correct two mistakes. You had previously mentioned the SS Main Office for Police and you apparently meant tho SS Main Office for Order Police (Ordnurgspolizei)
A Yes.
Q That is the regular police? (Ordnurgspolizei)
A. Yes.
Q And you agree with me if I tell you that there were only twelve offices, first you mentioned fourteen?
A. I do not know that exactly.
Q And now something different, the Prosecution has mentioned as Exhibit 23 an organization chart for the time after 1 September 1943, this is document NO-417. This organizational chart is in Volume 1 of the Prosecution document book, I am going to hand to you this organizational chart. In the organizational chart you have been listed in your capacity as chief clinical officer on the staff of the Reichs Physician SS, and besides you the following are listed: the director of tho Personal office of the Reich Physician, that is defendant Poppendick; further the chief hygienist that is the defendant Mrugowsky, then the chief dentist, the medical supply officer, and the chief of the Office of statistics.
I am now asking you the following question; did a meeting of these persons Reichs Physician or without him over take place?
A No such a meeting has over taken place. May I perhaps say a few words with regard to the plan. It is wrong to subordinate Grawitz to Karl Brandt, because Grawitz always expressively stated that he as Reichs Physician, with his special assignments, was directly responsible to Himmler-Hitler and only by way of personal cooperation did he maintain any contacts. It has already been painted out that not oven the right to issue instructions existed concerning this. This assignment of offices and this scheme was certainly not mentioned in this meeting. I know that upon my suggestion, after I came directly from the front, the following were ordered present: Grawitz and Genzken, and the escort physician Stumpfegger, that the Higher SS loader and police of the Ukraine, and Dr. Franke, who was to take over this position in the central.
A I know that I previously had told Himmler in a very clear manner, and at that time I already had Stalingrad behind me, Donez and Tunis, that with further improvisations and loose orders with regard to the supply system an unbearable crisis of confidence could take place, with regard to our wounded SS men. At the time Himmler, I believe, was impressed by my report from the front, and thus originated the chief clinical officer, who was to combine this clinical potential of front and rear echelon exactly as I directed with mention of just front and rear echelon.
It was important that the man who had the material, the quartermaster in the field, and the remaining men who were connected with other supply men at the front, viz. Mugrowski, and the coordinating dentist were all set to help my attempts to finally make order there.
I cannot remember, but I believe that Grawitz, a considerable time later, handed me the same plan. I read the name of Poppendick, whom I never officially saw before or after; and the work with Mrugowsky was always coordinated, he was the hygienist, and I was the clinical officer.
Q. How often did you meet Dr. Mrugowsky for discussions in the course of the war?
A. I believe that no guild separates its various spheres so sharply as the medical profession. I have never underestimated the importance of hygiene at the front. However, I know, like every person who has worked at the front, how quick and how mobile the war was and h w little suggestions, the individual votes kept up.
I can only remember that at the beginning Mrugowsky gave a lecture at one time, and at the time I may have met him at the front. However, I do not know that. I am quite certain that I saw him. at the fourth meeting at Hohenlychen. He was an active medical officer, had owned by this institute, was absolutely coordinated, of course, and locked after his own influence in his field.
I personally did not have any contact with the bacteriologists at sanitarians.
A You therefore, in particular, did not have any discussions with him, the subject cf which was medical experiments?
A Quite certainly not.
Q Will you please repeat that answer?
A In no manner, and I have not seen Mrugowsky either in preparing the sulfonamide experiments.
Q During the war did you have discussions with non-surgeons?
A I certainly did not have any which discussed the preparation of experiments, certainly not any professional ones. Hohenlychen was a clinic with many guests. I cannot remember having seen, for instance, Herr Rose anywhere or having contacted anybody else in the entire bacteriological field. I have very briefly met him at the front, but each, within his field of tasks.
For example, didn't you ever have any discussions with Professor Hirt or Professor Gildemeister?
A No.
Q In the order of Himmler which I have already read, front surgeons are mentioned, and you yourself were in charge of them. Did this activity prove its value during the other campaigns and did you also carry it cut?
A. I have already mentioned that our emergency situation was in contrast to that of the Army. From the very beginning we only had young surgeons. Later on the SS grew to a very large extent in numbers, so we not only had very young but we also had very few surgeons, and it had been me a common practice that wherever big offenses were to be expected an additional surgical, group which was led by me was used, so that in Africa with every collapse and with every retreat, I was always constantly being used.
Q Witness, tomorrow we shall discuss the sulfonamide experiments. As a final question for today I would like to tell you the following and I request you to answer the following question. During the war what were your contacts with Himmler, especially with regard to any medical influence, and in view of the experiments which here were the subject of the proceedings?
A I shall openly state whatever I know at this time, whatever I know with regard to the experiments and Himmler. However, quite independent from this may I shortly summarize, outside of being escort physician in Poland, I have not spent a longer poried of time with Himmler, with the exception that during the last few weeks Himmler was so lonely that he was together with me with the British occupation troops.
In the meantime my activity was divided between the front and Hohenlychen, I had a very independent position in the sense that I was in a very good personal relationship to Genzken, and I did everything in order to keep Genzken in his position because he was taking good care of the Waffen SS.
On the other hand I took everything away from him at the front which he was unable to supervise, and I tried at first to give orders from outside the army, and then as the need end danger grow, to supply the frontal troops from within the Army as best I could, I went to Himmler from the family of Himmler from the front, or from Hohenlychen, whenever it was possible for me, and I believe that I was the man who gave him the most honest reports about tendencies abroad, and the situation at the front, and I was able to give him the most honest and truthful information.
However, it was not so that he helped me but that I helped the SS and that generally I always came on my own initiative, and that I reported to him on my own initiative about any special situation. I then spent one or two days at the headquarters. Himmler's working procedure was so that he received persons individually and as soon as some other person was present I purposely never explained the connection to Himmler, because next to Hippocrates Frederic the Great was his saint and he had his Testament, and in the testament of Frederic the Great it is stated, it is important for an order that one does not let his intentions be recognized, so that the subordinate will not bring his report in accord with the desired effect.
I believe that this was one of the main principles in the life of Himmler; that is, how to handle us. May I perhaps say a word in conclusion which I wrote to him at some time or other, which is his good part or his disaster; that is Himmler believes everything at the moment he speaks it, and all persons believe Himmler, what he is saying.
DR. SEIDL: Hay it please the Tribunal, in view of the fact that now we come to a now sector; that is, the sulfonamide experiments, I request that perhaps the session may now be discontinued and recessed.
THE PRESIDENT; The Tribunal will be in recess until 0930 tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 5 March 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nuernberg, Germany, on 5 March 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 1. Military Tribunal 1 is now in session. God save the United States of America end this honrable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain that the defendants are all present in court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all the defendants are present in court with the exception of the defendant Oberheuser who is absent due to illness.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the presence of all defendants in the courtroom save the defendant Oberheuser, who is absent by excuse of the Tribunal because of her illness.
Counsel may proceed.
KARL GEBHARDT - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY DR. SEIDL (Counsel for the defendants Gebhardt and Fischer):
DR. SEIDL: Mr. President, in order to supplement what the defendant Dr. Karl Gebhardt said on the witness stand yesterday, with reference to his relations to Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler, I shall submit two affidavits which are contained in my document book. The first is an affidavit from SS Brigade Leader and Medical Officer, Dr. Oskar Hock, dated 17 January 1947, and it is on page 67 of the document book. I submit this affidavit as Exhibit Gebhardt No. 4, and I quote:
"Affidavit. I, Dr. Oskar Hock, born 31 January 1898, at present in a camp in Garmisch, have been advised that a false affidavit will subject me to legal prosecution. I declare on oath that my statements are true and were made in order to be submitted as evidence to the Military Court No. 1 in the Palace of Justice in Nuernberg, Germany.
"Personal Data: Dr. Oskar Hock, born 31 January 1898 in Babenhausen/
Hessia, finally SS-Brigadefuehrer and Corpsarzt with an armored corps of the Waffen SS.
"Relevant Facts: By request of the defense counsel of the defendant Dr. Karl Gebhardt I state the following:
"On 1 September 1943, in spite of my strong resistance, I was appointed Chief of the Medical Service cf the uniformed regular police, an office which up to that time had always been occupied by a police doctor. Some weeks before Gebhardt had informed me by phone that on the occasion of the ordered change he would suggest me.
"Simultaneously with my appointment Himmler ordered Gebhardt to assist me in his capacity as chief physician. Nevertheless, during the time I held this office, which was only a few months, he never appeared, presumably because duty and visits to the front prevented him from so doing.
"Previously I had only met Gebhardt on one of his visits to the front. In July 1941 he paid a visit to my division which, at that time, was engaged in heavy fighting in Russia.
"I was division surgeon. When a great number of wounded soldiers had to be brought through very dangerous territory, he was able, by virtue cf his well-known personality to arrange for their speedy billeting and treatment in field hospitals. Because of the impression received from this front visit, he quickly sent me a group of surgeons with Stumpfegger as chief, which worked with the division for about six weeks. As far as I heard later on, Stumpfegger was with Himmler from 1942 onwards. I would like to add that after a short time I was relieved from offices as chief of the medical service of the uniformed regular police through the intervention of Dr. Stumpfegger, at that time Himmler's accompanying physician. I had requested Dr. Stumpfegger to do this.
Nuernberg, 17 January 1947 (signed) Dr. Oskar Hock" and after that follows the certificate cf the affidavit.
As Exhibit Gebhardt No. 5 I wish to submit an affidavit from the former Chief Adjutant to the Reichsruehrer Himmler SS on page 69 of the document book and I quote:
"Affidavit. I, Werner Grothmann, born on 23 August 1915 at Frankfurt am Main, last SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer in the Waffen SS and Chief Adjutant to Reichsfuehrer of the SS Himmler, interned in the British Civilian Internment Camp at Fallingsbostel, at present in the military prison at Nuernberg, have been warned that I render myself liable to punishment if I submit a false affidavit. I declare under oath that my statement is true and was made for the purpose of being submitted as evidence to the Military Court No. 1 at the Palace of Justice, Nuernberg, Germany.
"On the Subject: From 1940 to 1945 I was Adjutant to Reichsfuehrer of the SS Himmler. Since 1942 as Adjutant I was entrusted with the handling of military matters in Himmler's staff. As such, I am in the position to testify about the general organization of the Field Headquarters (Himmlers' headquarters). Reports of a military character were submitted to Himmler through me; matters concerning police affairs were submitted through Lt. Col of the Police Suchanek; the handling of incoming and outgoing mail for Himmler was exclusively in the charge of Dr. Rudolf Brandt, Himmler's personal adviser. Himmler himself ordered persons to attend conferences with him. He always conducted those conferences alone with the persons concerned, i.e. without Brandt, Suchanek, or myself being present. Information regarding the subject of the conferences was usually not given by Himmler.
"At my time the physicians on Himmler's staff were the Finish chir?pract?r Dr. Corston, who, during his presence at headquarters, treated Himmler daily; furthermore, a socalled "permanent excert physician", who attended trips to the front and who was also responsible for the medical care of the personnel of the Field Headquarters; from 1941 to 1942, Dr. Wittmann was excerting physician, and from 1942 to the autumn of 1944 up to tho armistice it was Dr. Mueller.
"During my assignment as adjutant to Himmler, Prof. Gebhardt held the position of consulting surgeon of tho WaffenSS where he also performed operations. Furthermore, Prof. Gebhardt was also chief physician at Hohenlychen at that time; Himmler visited Hohenlychen approximately two or three times a year. He used the opportunity, especially around Christmas, to visit the wounded and also to see his two children, who lived at Hohenlychon, later in the vicinity. Dr. Gebhardt's visits to Himmler's headquarters during my period of office as adjutant (from 1940-1945) usually lasted just a few days; the announcement of his visit mostly came through me, without giving any reasons. I have never attended any conferences between Himmler and Gebhardt. As far as I remember, only Himmler and Gebhardt were present at those conferences, following Himmler's custom. Neither Himmler nor Gebhardt informed me even afterwards about the subject of these discussions. In respect of his collaborators, too, Himmler obeyed the Fuehrer's command concerning secrecy, which permitted information to be given only to the extent necessary for the execution of certain duries by the persons concerned. In conversations in the presence of several people, as for example discussions at the table, only these matters were discussed which were not subject to secrecy.
In addition to the above mentioned t?t?-a-t?t? conferences between Himmler and Gebhardt I only remember one conference at which besides Professor Gebhardt also Professor Grawitz was ordered to appear. The subject of this conference, too, remained unknown to me. Frequent conferences or conferences at regular intervals between Himmler and several SS-Physicians together never took place in my time.
"In addition to his activities already mentioned, Professor Dr. Gebhardt, since autumn 1944 to my knowledge was Heeresgruppenarzt (Army Group Medical Officer) with the Army-Group ???rrhein, since January 1945, Heeresgruppenarzt with the Army-Group Weichsel.
"Nurnberg, 27 January 1947" And then follows the signature and the certificate of the document.
Mr. President, our Honors, before questioning the defendant regarding sulfanilamide experiments I should like your permission to submit a few documents dealing with the subject of these experiments and which have already repeatedly been mentioned in the course of submission of evidence. The first document of this type which I wish to submit is a document you will find on page 1 of the document book. It is a report on the first Working Meeting East which was held 18-19 May 1912 at the Military Medical Academy at Berlin. I wish you submit this report, or rather the excerpts from it, as Exhibit Gebhardt No. 6.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, you did not assign a number to the last exhibit which you offered. That would be Gebhardt Ex hibit No. 5, the affidavit of Werner Grothmann. You did not mention that number
DR. SEIDL: Mr. President, the last exhibit was number 5.
I beg your pardon. And this extract from this meeting which had taken place in May, this meeting which was the meeting of the East of Consulting Specialists, will be Exhibit No. 6.
MR. HARDY: May it please the Court, recently the Tribunal ruled that any document that had been put into evidence by the Prosecution would not be put into evidence by the Defense and bear another exhibit number. These documents which Dr. Seidl has been referring to have already been admitted and bear exhibit numbers of Prosecution -- and I don't think it necessary.
JUDGE SEBRING: Has it already been admitted in full with the same completeness that Dr. Seidl has?
MR HARDY: In this particular instance I don't believe so. We have introduced various excerpts. I don't know which excerpts he is referring to ??w, but I imagine the same ones we have introduced.
DR. SEIDL: Mr. President, with reference to this I would like to say the following. In the course of submission of evidence, that is to say, when Prosecution was going on the defense in this case, the attorney for the defendant Handloser, made the suggestion that Prosecution should submit these minutes - these reports of those meetings -- in entirety. That application was refused - the reason being that the reports on these conferences, summarized in books known to the Tribunal, were too voluminous. The Prosecution only submitted extracts, very short ones at that. The extracts which I intend to submit now, with the exception of one brief paragraph, had not been submitted. Considering that the extracts submitted by the Prosecution and those which I propose to submit hAve no immediate and internal connections, I am of the opinion that it would appear suitable that exhibits of the defense should be given their own independent number but here, In my opinion, we are only concerned with a technical question, the question of only designating documents.
And, since the Tribunal has expressly granted the right to defense that all extracts of these conferences may be submitted, such as will be important as evidence to the defense, I am of course prepared to submit this extract under a exhibit number which is suggested by the Prosecution. This appears to me to be a very inferior technical question, really.
THE PRESIDENT: How many pages of your document book, counsel, are covered by this exhibit? The English document book furnished the Tribunal do not carry the number of the exhibits, the documents, offered by your client.
DR. SEIDL: The document numbers are contained in the index on the first page. Altogether I am going to submit three extracts. That is, one about the conference of May 1942, pages 1-19 of the Document Book. Secondly, an extract with reference to the second meeting in November 1942, that is page 14-21. And, thirdly, an extract dealing with the third conference taking place in May 1943, page 22 to 32 of the Document Book.
THE PRESIDENT: Do you expect to read this entire nineteen pages into the record?
DR. SEIDL: I would not propose to read all of these nineteen pages, just individual extracts which appeared to me to be particularly important.
JUDGE SEBRING: Doctor, what is the purpose of this tender?
DR. SEIDL: The purpose of these exhibits is the following:
The defendant Gebhardt, and the two other defendants which I represent, have carried out sulfanilamide experiments which they do not deny. If when evidence was submitted earlier it had been mentioned repeatedly or questioned repeatedly, first, whether these experiments were necessary; secondly, whether if they were necessary to what extent effectiveness of the sulfanilamide experiments was debated in military and civilian medical circles in Germany; and, thirdly, what the contents of the speech of Professor Rostock in the conference were; fourth, what the outcome of the experiments was; and fifth, what opinions were voiced in the discussion with reference to that question, the discussion which took place during those various conferences. I am now talking about factual and legal reasons. These are very relevant, indeed, so much so in my opinion extracts from these reports should be submitted. All the more so because Prosecution on their part have already submitted extracts on behalf of some importance and, since consideration of such extracts by Prosecution alone were not fair to give the suitable picture of the thing, but a one sided and incorrect picture.
JUDGE SEBRING: Is it your theory that these reports will, when supplemented by such portions of the reports which Prosecution has submitted, give color to the whole series of experiments and tend to show with completeness the over-all aspect of that convention or meeting.
Is that the point? In other words, as I understand the Prosecution, they have submitted portions of the report to show not only the defendants Gebhardt and Fisher had conducted experiments on human beings in an illegal fashion, but that almost anyone in attendance at the conference could have clearly ascertained by hearing the reports that the experiments were in fact illegal. I understand that is the position of Prosecution. Now, then you are submitting these report for the purpose of showing an over-all complex of the meeting and to show in completeness what actually transpired?
DR. SEIDL: The purpose of these documents is not that of showing whether other participants in the conference, particularly with reference to the responsibility of these experiments, could form a picture about that. But the purpose, as the Tribunal has just stated, is to present the entire context statement between the individual meetings, conferences, and I believe it essential this should be done in order to back the statements made by the defendants on the witness stand and give the essential background there.
MR. HARDY: I might call to the attention of the Tribunal that the extract submitted by Prosecution was an extract of the 1943 conference, and this extract is of the 1942 conference.
THE PRESIDENT: The document offered by counsel will be received in evidence. I understand that counsel will read into the record only those parts deemed particularly pertinent. Now this document apparently ends on page 13. While the documents are numbered in the index they are not numbered throughout the book which makes it a little difficult for the Tribunal to see where one document begins and another ends. That requires examination of the index.
DR. SEIDL: The first document starts on page 1 - finishes on page 13.
THE PRESIDENT: On which page?
DR. SEIDL: Page 13.
JUDGE SEBRING: Which one are you now offering?
DR. SEIDL: I am speaking of the document which deals with the first conference - the Eastern conference of consulting specialists on the 18th and 19th of May, 1942, beginning on Page 1 of the document book. The index has already been dealt with by Dr. Handloser's defense counsel and presented to the Tribunal, so I can refer to it. Then on page 2 there is a lecture, which has been mentioned repeatedly, given by Professor Dr. Rostock, parts of which I propose to read into the record. I quote:
"IV. CHEMOTHERAPY OF WOUND INFECTIONS. - Lecture by Oberstabsarzt Professor Rostock.
"Chemotherapy of the wound is ancient science. Each war has changed the old question and brought it forward again to the contemporary standard of scientific knowledge.
"My statements are not intended to give a summary of the previous results, but are intended to sum up briefly what practical knowledge we have, and are to form the basis for a discussion.
"A new method in the application of sulfonamides, now in the center of interest, is that they are not applied locally to the wound, but are introduced generally into the body either enterally or parenterally to spread their effect in this way. The fact that some drugs are intended specifically against various bacteria and against the diseases caused by them is also new to science. The success of sulfonamide treatment with pneumonia, gonorrhea, epidemic meningitis and perhaps with erysipelas cannot be denied. We are not concerned with these diseases here. We only want to deal with wound diseases (tetanus, gas edema) and with wound infections.
"We know that sulfonamides are ineffective against tetanus. Their effectiveness with regard to gas edema is under discussion, and has so far, not been clarified. Perhaps this is partly due to the fact that true gas edema, which is caused by the three known viruses, is not always distinguished from the essentianlly mild gas phlegmons.
"With regard to the treatment of wound infection local application is in the foreground of interest today, not the enteral and parenteral introduction.
Previous results have been judged in different ways. Brunner has even dared treat peacetime injuries which were contaminated locally with sulfonamides and then suturing the wound without previously making a wound excision. Schreuss has highly praised the 'wide-spread effectiveness' of the drugs. Kirschner and his assistants have doubted its effectiveness. They have tried to prove, by experiments, that jodoform is superior to sulfonamides when applied locally to wounds.
"The explanation of the method of operation with these drugs is of vital importance to our knowledge. In former times, it was believed that disinfecting drugs for wounds had a special effect on the vitality of the bacteria and the generally known conclusion was reached that all the drugs used were more likely to kill the cells of the wound than the bacteria introduced into it. Sulfonamides are said to have a different effect. It has been claimed (Heubner) that only with the tissue of the body, do they form effective materials, the nature of which is not known in detail. On the other hand, it has been claimed that the drugs create a so-called defensive tissue in the wounds. Other researchers believe that the drugs facilitate the phagocytosis of the bacteria. The fact, that necrotic tissues, and their products of catabolism in the wound, are obstructive to the effects of the remedy is an important one.
"The determination of the method of operation with sulfonamides is of fundamental importance with regard to its practical application and this basic research is therefore urgent. I can create the material basis for such research at my clinic if the necessary patient material is provided and if suitable physicians interested in research are made available.
"For collecting clinical experience, it is necessary that the individual bacteria strains react differently. The drugs are more effective in vivo than in vitro (Brunner). The wound bacteria can be arranged as follows with regard to their increasing resistance to sulfonamides:
pneumococci streptococci coli proteus pyocyanase staphylococci "The place held by the most important viruses of the gas edema in this series is being discussed.