DR. SEIDL (Counsel for defendants Gebhardt and Fischer): Mr. President, Gentlemen of the Tribunal, before I begin to submit evidence on behalf of Dr. Gebhardt and Dr. Fischer I ask you to take notice of the fact that during the course of the examination of the defendant Gebhardt I shall refer to documents of the prosecution which can be found in the following books of the prosecution document books: Document Book No. 1, No. 3, No. 4, No. 5; No. 6, No. 10, No. 11 and No. 13. Furthermore, I shall refer to the following evidence of the prosecution which was submitted outside of the document books, that is, Exhibit No. 211, No. 219, No. 209, and 214. The document book which I submitted contains documents which refer to the defendant Dr. Genhardt, Dr. Oberheuser and Dr. Fischer. For the sake of simplicity I shall submit these documents under the designation "Gebhardt". At a later date I shall submit an annex to the document book. Unfortunately, there has been a delay in the submission of this volume as a number of affidavits have not arrived. With reference to the volume which is available now, I should like to state that it contains a number of affidavits which have been certified in accordance with the rules of the Tribunal but where the certification notice was not included in the document book because the affidavits would have have had to be sent back to the witness for the purposes of certification and since I had already sent these ducuments to the Language Division to be translated, and I shall, at a later date, read the certification into the record.
Gentlemen of the Tribunal, I am beginning the submission of evidence...
THE PRESIDENT: (Interruptiong): The Tribunal understands, Doctor, that you represent the defendants Gebhardt, Fischer and Oberheuser. The Tribunal else understands that you have, in writing, recommended that the defendant Oberheuser be excused at this time on order to undergo an operation at the American Hospital in Nurnberg. That was with your approval and consent as will be made a matter of record before the Tribunal. That is correct, is it not?
DR. SEIDL: Yes, Mr. President, that is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: And I understand that in offering evidence on behalf of the defendants Gebhardt and Fischer that you are reserving the right to offer that same evidence, by reference, when the case against the defendant Oberheuser is called when she is able to be again present in Court and present her defense. Is that correct?
DR. SEIDL: Mr. President, the document book which I have submitted contains documents which refer to all three of the defendants. When the turn of the defendant Oberheuser comes, I shall refer to these documents without it being necessary to read them once more and again submit them to the Tribunal. All the documents which are available here I am going to submit within the frame of presentation of evidence at the moment, and for that reason it will not be necessary to again submit these documents. I naturally reserve the right that I will be able to refer to this evidence in the case of the defendant Oberhe**er.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal understands, Doctor, that *****ur opinion the rights of the defendant Qberherser will not be prejudiced before the Tribunal by following that plan. Is that correct?
DR. SEIDL: Yes, that is correct.
THE PRESIDENT: As Counsel for defendant Oberheuser you are content of with that procedure and, in your opinion, the rights of the defendant Oberheuser will in no wise be prejudiced by following that procedure, is that correct?
DR. SEIDEL: I'm of the opinion that through this procedure the rights of the defendant Oberheuser are not going to be prejudiced I have already stated that in my written application to the Tribunal a few days ago.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has your written application and it will seen be made a matter of record upon the record of this Tribunal.
Counsel, you may proceed.
DR. SEIDL: Gentlemen of the Tribunal, I begin the submission of the document evidence with the presentation of a few affidavits which refer to the personality and activity of the defendant Dr. Karl Gebhardt.
THE PRESIDENT: Will the Secretary General procure the document books for the Tribunal - the prosecution document books referred to by the Counsel?
DR. SEIDL: The first document I an submitting is an affidavit of the Swiss professor, Dr. Iselin, dated 8 January 1947. This document is on page 52 of my document book and it beats #7 in the index. Professor Dr. Iselin from Basle is one of the best known European surgeons and can be designated as the most renowned specialist for orthopedy. I am submitting this affidavit as Exhibit Genhardt No. 1, and I quote:
MR. HARDY: If it please the Tribunal, am I correct in understanding Dr. Seidl that this is an example of what he is referring to when he states that this does not have a jurat and that he is securing same or will have that read into the record at a later date?
DR. SEIDL: This is one of the pieces of evidence which is already certified.
MR. HARDY: Since the jurat is on this, I withdraw the objection.
DR. SEIDIL: I quote:
"Basle, 6 January 1947.
"Having been informed of the consequences of a false affidavit I testify tho following for the purpose of submitting it as evidence to the Military Tribunal No. 1 in Nurnberg:
"1. Personal Data:
"I have no knowledge of the reasons for and the contents of the indictment against Professor Karl Gebhardt, M.D. "I do not know Professor Gebhardt personally; we have only corresponded with each other because of scientific activities.
Personally I have never heard anything unfavorable about him, and on account of his scientific work and activities I imagined him to be extremely initiative, serious of strong character, and also decent; that for the way in which he respected and acknowledged the work of other authors suggests an honest disposition.
"I would not have believed anything wrong of Professor Gebhardt. Although, of course, restorave-orthopedy and subsequent treatment need strong will-power on the part of the physician, to overcome weak-willed and probably work-shy patients, in this therapy a certain animosity often remains with the person forcefully handled and frequently, even if one tries to avoid causing pain, these therapeutic measures are misunderstood as violence.
"2. Relevant Facts:
"My attention was first drawn to Professor Genhardt through his collaboration in the text-book 'Complete Restorative Surgery' by Professor Erich Lexer.
"Gebhardt composed a chapter on 'The Subsequent Treatment of Motoric Disorders after Injuries and Operations.' I mention further the following works:
"Ski Injuries. (Munich, Medical Weekly 1929) "Injuries to, and After Effects on, the Motoric System through Skiing.
(Munich, Medical Weekly 1929) "Clinical and Xray Observations and Joint Damages.
(German Surgical Journal 1923) "Paraarticular Bleeding By Hemorrhage into Joint Capsules.
(Munich Medical Weekly 1931) "Surgical Gymnastics.
(Barth Publishing Company, Leipsig 1931) "Ligament Injury of the Knee Joint.
(Barth Publishing Company 1933) "Physi*therapy.
(Fischer Publishing Company, Jona 1934) "Natural Adjustment and Restorative Surgery.
(German Association for Surgery 1936) "General Reconstruction Surgery.
(German Association for Surgery 1936) "Treatment of Tear of the Achilles tendon.
(Clinical Surgery Archives 189.)
"Restorative Surgery for the Achilles tendon. Clinical Surgery Archives 1937) "Regeneration, Its Application in Surgery.
(Central Surgical Journal 1939) "Treatment of Bone and Joint Tuberculosis based on the Hohenlychen Experiments 1933-1933.
(Barth Publishing Company, 1939) "Later works are not known to me.
"I reported on the 'Remedial Exercises' for the Swiss Medical Weekly, and sent him a copy. He thanked me and so we came to the mutual exchange of our scientific works, because we had the same aim.
"From his works it can be seen that tho aim of his endeavors was to help the physically defective, to rehabilitate them into the economic process and to make them again normal, useful members of the community. We discovered each other in the course of these endeavors. Later on he ordered 50 copies of my work on protheses 'The Amputation of the Upper Extremities' from the Bonno Schwabe Publishing Company of Basle, because a now work of this kind on arm prothesis was not available in Germany. He wanted them to give to the guest at Hohenlychen. This pamphlet defines the common ain, the rehabilitation of the injured and mutilated for work."
"Signed: Professor ISE*IN" The certification has the following wording:
"I certify that this is a true and correct copy of the original document. Basle. 13 January 1947. Office of Basle, town and signature."
As second affidavit, I am submitting a statement made by Professor Dr. Buerkle De La Camp, who comes from Bochum, which can be found on page 55 of my document book. This affidavit will become Genhardt Exhibit No. 2. Professor of these proceedings, is the leading physician of the Surgical Department of the Hospital Bergmannsheil at Bochum. He is one of the leading German surgeons who, during the war, was a consulting surgeon with the Luftwaffe. I quote:
"Bocum, 10 January 1947.
"Affidavit "I declare under oath as follows, and I agree to having this declaration submitted to the American Military Tribunal at Nurnberg.
I know that a false affidavit given to a court will render me liable to punishment.
"Re: Person: Professor Heinrich Buerkle de la Camp, M.D. born 3 June 1893 at Bonndorf (Baden), married, Chief Physician of the Surgical Department of the hospital Bergrannsheil at Bochum.
"Re: Subject: The questions put to me by Defense counsel Dr. Seidl? I answer as follows:
"1. I have known Professor Karl Gebhardt, M.D., since 1928, At the time, Gebhardt was an assistant physician with Geheimrat Sauerbruch at the Surgical Clinic of the University of Munich. On 1 October 1928, the management of this hospital was taken over by Geheimrat Lexer, under whom I was chief physician. At that time Gebhardt was chief physician in the Physical Education Department of the Surgical Clinic of the University, and an instructor in physiotherapy. Geheimrat Lexer attached special importance to the follow-up treatment of injuries of the limbs, and of operations of restorative surgery taught, practiced, and expanded by Gebhardt. This is evidence from the fact alone that Geheimrat Lexer had Gebhardt draw up a special concluding chapter on. 'Fellow-up Treatment' to his great important work 'The Entire Restorative Surgery', written by Lexer alone.
"Gebhardt proved to be so good an assistant physician of the surgical clinic and chief physician of the Department for Follow-up Treatment, that Geheimrat Lexer, who was otherwise very particular, offered him to habilitate. This habilitation took place at the medical faculty in Munich in 1932. Gebhardt was very well liked as instructor physician, and co-assistant at the clinic.
"Gebhardt established a training camp for apprentices at Hohenaschau. There he assembled, during the vacations, many weak, recuperating, and convalescent apprentices from various enterprises. They remained there for many weeks, in order to strengthen them under medical supervision, and with the aid of physical education instructors and to restore their fitness for professional and physical work. This was a highly meritorious action of great social significance. This was emphasized by everybody, again and again, when the training camp for apprentices was repeated. Whoever inspected this training camp was full of praise for this unique organization, which obliterates social inequalities and the very life and soul of which was Gebhardt. Later, Gebhardt made use of the knowledge and experience he had gained at this training camp, at the mental institution Hohenlychen.
"2. I am able to confirm that at the conference of consulting physicians at Hohenlychen, in 1944, experiments on human beings were not mentioned, at any rate not in the surgery lectures. I further confirm that medical officers of the SS did not play a prominent part during this conference in any respect. I did not notice that *******, who generally was not mentioned very favorably, was emphasized in any way. Himmler was not present for I would have noticed that, since I have never soon Himmler at all.
"The sanatoriums at Hohenlychen had a good reputation all over. Hohenlychen was especially important in sport circles. The sanatoriums, at Hohenlychen had a good reputation all over. Hohenlychen was expecially important in sport circles. The sanatoriums, however, also played a leading role in the treatment of bone tuberculosis and of operations of restorative surgery. Special attention was paid to the treatment of the after affects of infantile paralysis. In this field, Gebhardt carried out many beneficial operations. I know this from inspections of the sanatoriums at Hohenlychen, as well as from Gebhardt's lectures and lectures by his pupils and from scientific publications.
3. I remember very clearly, and confirm, that Gebhardt painted a rather gloomy picture of the political and military development of the war in a discussion with Professor Wachsmuth and me. These remarks were made subsequent to a discussion which Professor Wachsmuth and I had as main lecturers of the conference, about the limitations of our lectures. On this occasion Gebhardt stated that the enemy would invade Germany from the East and from the West, and that one had to reckon wish a complete destruction of German cities, and with a total annihilation of the German Wehrmacht, if it were not possible to become master of the situation at the last moment. At the time, I was quite upset to hear that such a catastrophe was expected in the highest circles of the SS.
Gebhardt also told us on this occasion that we should impress upon the competent authorities that they do not assign surgeons either from the Army or from the Luftwaffe to the SS, since membership in the SS would mean great personal danger for those surgeons, due to the threatening catastrophe.
"signed - Buerkle De la Camp, M.D."
The certification reads as follows: "The signature of Professor Dr. Buerkle De la Camp, presiding in Bochum, is certified herewith. Bochum, 3 February 1947, Notary RAUCH."
As the third document I am submitting an affidavit by Generalarzt Dr. Rudolf von Heuss, retired from Heeresdienst, page 59, of the document book. This will become Gebhardt Exhibit No. 3. Generalarzt von Heuss is 72 years of age. He was medical officer in the old Bavarian Army, and has known Gebhardt ever since the year 1920. He knew him. at the time when Gebhardt was only 21 years of age. I quote:
a f f i d a v i t I, Generalarzt (retired) Dr. Rudolf von HEUSS, residing in Munich, Kaisseplatz 11, have been informed that I make myself liable for punishment, if I give a false affidavit, I declare under out that my statement is true and has been made in order to be submitted as evidence to Military Tribunal No. I in the Palace of Justice in Nuremberg, Germany:
It shall be demonstrated in the following 1. when and under what circumstances I made the acquaintance of Professor Dr. Karl GEBHARDT, 2. how or under which scientific and social points of view our collaboration took place, 3. what were the results of this collaboration 4. what impression I mattered of the character of Professor Dr. GEBHARDT in the course of this collaboration which lasted for years.
Personal data: I am almost 72 years of age. I was an active army physician and retired in 1926. Since 1906 I have been working as a specialist for diseases of the eye in Munich, and I am still practicing today with the consent of the Military Government.
During the twenties I was for many years chairman of one Munich Catholic parents Association; chairman of the League for Blind (Civilians); responsible head of the Reich League of Large Families in Bavaria for many years; until 1936 first chairman of the Munich Physicians' Association. I was removed from the first office in 1933, because I was not a member of the Party.
I was removed from the latter office in 1936, because I was still active in the Catholic Parents Association. In my capacity as 2nd chairman of the Catholic College Graduates I had to undergo a house search by the Gestapo.
Relevant Facts:
I made the acquaintance of GEBHARDT, then assistant of the Surgical Clinic (Director Geheimrat Dr. SAUERBRUCH) in 1920, that is 26 years ago, at a meeting of the Young Bavaria association. Young Bavaria originated from the former Bavarian Defense Association. This was founded in 1910, on the lines of lines Boy Scouts Association created by the English General BADEN-POWELL. Aims of the association: the education of youth to physical, mental and moral fitness. Health aim: medical examination and current control of the boys; treatment of defects; separate approve to boys still in need of care or liable to relapse. That is, the care of youth from the athletic, scientific and social aspect.
These long-term objectives, however, assumed a most serious actual importance on account of the consequence of Germany's defeat in World War I. For those tines demanded the creation of a youth capable of the highest possible labor output. And it was the task of this meeting of Young Bavaria in the year 1920, to take immediate measures, to educate its members for this purpose in the shortest possible time.
The joint work between Dr. GEBHARDT and myself originated on this basis.
The work was divided into three main groups over a period of 12 years:
1. The testing of new methods in out-patient treatment, thus bringing about an acceleration of the cure or maintaining the patients fitness for work. These tests chiefly concerned certain kinds of Done fractures and hemorrhages into joints caused by accidents in sport or at work.
The results are set down by GEBHARDT, amongst others, in the works: "Particular Bleeding by Hemorrhage into Joint Capsules; Its Treatment with Limited Fixation", and "Injuries to, and after effects on, the Motoric System from Skiing".
2. Parallel with these aims, GEBHARDT developed new methods for the post-treatment of accidents and sport injuries in his capacity as chief physician of the sport action and the posttreatment ward, as well as on the basis of his experiences in the Hohenaschau training camps. The results are summarized in "Complete Restorative Surgery" by Geheimrat LEXER. They appeared as an introduction to "Surgical Gymnastics" in 1931.
3. The Training Camp. While the results of 1 and 2 tried to remove by modern methods the consequences of injuries which had already occurred, GEBHARDT, in founding the training camp, attempted to realize at last the simple social demand, if only in a small way: to approach possible injuries to health prophylactically by timely medical examination; to treat persons menaced in this way methodically for several weeks in his training camps; to increase their capacity for work and there are their resistance; after the period in the camp, to preserve the results achieved there by continuous medical control or to prevent relapses by timely intervention. That is: precautional care, current-care and after--care! Average stay in the camp 4 weeks! Persons assisted: working juveniles, that is juveniles still healthy, but in need of care; permanently injured people; people with only one arm or one leg, blind people and psychopaths. Number: 100 to 120. Camp Staff: chief physician (Dr. GEBHARDT) specialists, sports instructors; especially trained masseurs and female gymnastic teachers. Results, constantly the same: 1. Striking increase of efficiency, 2. Surprising adaptation of the functionally handicapped and increase of their efficiency, 3. General increase of selfconfidence, 4. intensified conception of comradeship and increase of cheerfulness.
As supervisor (Obmann) of 7 training camps I was charged with the liaison between the highest authorities, especially between the Ministry for Church and Education natters, the highest railroad authorities who were especially interested, the school authorities, the employers and the families of the persons who were to be assisted on the one side, and the surgical clinic and GEBHARDT'S entire working staff on the other. Furthermore, the annual guaranteeing of the financial means needed by the camp. Participation in the camp was free for all persons receiving assistant. The journey to and from the camp, lodging, and food, and to some extent, clothing were paid for from the available funds. The entire camp staff worked on an honorary basis. Any kind of material or financial pro fit was completely impossible.
A person who had once been to a training camp remained under medical control for the duration of his subsequent working years. Under these directives, the training camp in Hohenaschau kept Under extending for 7 years (from, 1925 to 1932). I was it's supervisor (Obmann) the whole time and from GEBHARDT'S most intimate working sphere I was able to participate in the whole development and extension of this organization which served social-medicine in the truest sense of the word, I was also able to observe it's valuable influence in the most varied directions.
Trade Union organizations were the first to follow this example and no establish similar training camps. Combined medical courses served to train suitable colleagues and to further the camp idea in medical circles.
In this way the Gehardt Training Camp became a real synthesis and complete whole in which scientific discovery modern intensified methods of treatment combined prophylactically to protect working youth under industrial and medical control from serious health injuries; to increase by current welfare their working capacity and their resistance to illness; and by after-care, through constant medical control and, or change of profession or temporary leave, to protect them from relapses and new injuries.
Therefore, one may well assert: that the energetic, tenacious determination of a young doctor, ready to make unlimited sacrifices, combined with the constant and interested participation of his two seniors, Geheimrat SAUERBRUCH and Geheimrat Lexner transformed into Pelear, practical reality of Social medicine, an ideal which had previously only been the subject of highly problematic theoretical discussions. A reality of far reaching importance.
Increasing participation and visits to the camp by ministries, universities, Senior school authorities; representatives of important health insurance companies; and of workers' organizations were eloquent testimony of the fact that the synthesis of the training camp was opening a new door in the social-medical sphere and also in the welfare of the entire nation.
The occupants of the training camp had so far been drawn exclusively from working youth circles. It was obvious, after the experiences gained, that they should also be extended to adult circles. Naturally, the question of prophylaxis had to be set aside in favor of current care in the form of treatment, especially after-treatment of previously incurred injuries. There were mainly two groups: sports and industrial accidents. In addition, two forms of disease demanded essential therapeutic care; spinal infantile paralysis with its tragic consequences, and bone and joint tuberculosis.
The considerable expansion of the sphere of duties demanded two things: 1. The promotion of GEBHARDT and his small circle of collaborators to an indictment, leading position. 2. An establishment to meet the requirements of this work, with suitable grounds capable of extension.
Both demands were fulfilled by the assignment of GEBHARDT to the staff of the Reich Sports Leader and his appointment as chief of the Medical Institute of the National Academy for Gymnastics and his simultaneous appointment as chief physician of Hohenlychen sanatorium in the Uckermark. This was in 1933 and it brought to an end our mutual connections as regards work.
Bur on the occasion of two visits to Hohenlychen in later years, I saw that GEBHARDT had tackled his increased sphere of duties which the same energy, and was getting good results. I might only mention: the new and success methods of treating spinal infantile paralysis; a paper written by GEBHARDT's pupil Jr. Hiss. Prevention of Sports Injuries to the Motoris System, and above all the knowledge gained from 1933 to 1938 and sit out in the paper "Treatment of Bone and Joint Tuberculosis" may best illustrate, that under GEBHARDT's new management Hohenlychen tried progressively to enlarge the extensive ground work achieved during the Munich period.
I met GEBHARDT for the last time in 1936 again in connection with mutual work, when he was chief of the accident hospital at the Olympic Games in Berlin. I was in charge of the ophthalmic ward of the hospital and had ample opportunity of observing how sportsmen and physicians from all parts of the world, the former partly as patients, tried out with great interest GEBHARDT's methods on themselves or had those explained to them in well-defined outline. Many of those international guests were transformed to Hohenlychen as in-patients, in order to undergo systematic treatment on the spot.
And so Hohenlychen became a social platform not only in respect of therapeutics, but also in the sense of friendly international relations.
This is a short summary in answer to the four questions asked at the beginning: When and under what circumstances I made the acquaintance of Dr. GEBHARDT, what form this collaboration took; the results of this work; what impressions I gained of Dr. GEBHARDT during this collaboration.
The political note may be missing in this picture. The explanation for it is simple: the years of cur collaboration were entirely free from politics. Not a single word was spoken about politics. Medical aid knows no politics. The noblest policy of tho real physician will always be, readiness to help everybody to the best of his ability. Accordingly, Professor GEBHARDT's care was for all who were in need of it. Strict neutrality with regard to politics was, therefore, a matter of course. In addition, the numerous duties and the abundance of the work, prohibited any deviation which might have caused the slightest injury to the realization of the aims, and which might have disturbed the inner unity of GEBHARDT's working community. This uniform and completely non-political line was adhered to until the last moment, that is until GEBHARDT left for Hohenlychen in 1933. It was also not abandoned in the rare meetings during the years which followed." Munich 30 January, 1947. Dr. Rudolf v. HUESS Generalarzt (Retired) At the bottom is the following test:
"I hereby certify the correctness of the signature of Dr. von Heuss, whom I know personally in Munich."
Munich, 30 January, 1947. Witness: Heinrich Hoppler.
I submit this as Exhibit Gebhardt No. 3.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
THE PRESIDENT: I shall now read into the record the order of the Tribunal in connection with the absence of the defendant Oberhauser.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA vs KARL BRANDT, et al, Order Case No. I.
There having been filed in the Office of the Secretary General, directed to Military Tribunal I, dated February 25, 1947, a written certificate by Charles J. Roska, Medical Corps, United States Army, Prison Surgeon at Number Germany, describing the physical condition of Herta Oberhauser, a defendant now on trial in the above entitled cause; and, Captain Roska, having stated in the certificate that the defendant Oberhauser is laboring under certain described serious physical disabilities, and. is in need of an operation to relieve her.
And, Doctor Alfred Seidl, representing Herta Oberhauser, as Counsel before Military Tribunal I, on the trial of the above entitled cause having, February 28, 1947, filed in the Office of the Secretary General, for the adaption of Military Tribunal I, a written statement in the German language, signed by him personally, stating defendant Oberhauser's serious physical condition, and requesting that defendant Oberhauser be immediately treated in the American Army hospital at Nurnberg; and, that the defendant Oberhauser evidence may be presented to the Tribunal after her release from the hospital, which may be expected within two or three weeks.
And, defendant Oberhauser, herself, having filed in the Office of the Secretary General, March 3, a signed statement in the German language and in the English language, requesting that she be transferred to a hospital for an operation, stating her reasons for desiring that the operation be performed.
And, the Tribunal having been furnished with the above described documents, together with the English translations of the documents written in the German language, the original documents here to attached marked Exhibits A,B, and C, respectively.
And, it appearing to the Tribunal, expresses a finding, from said medical certificate and other documents filed with the Tribunal, concerning the physical condition of defendant Oberhauser; and from the documents here and above referred to, that the defendant Oberhauser is in a serious physical.
condition and in need of medical and surgical attention.
And, that her physical condition has been and is now such that she cannot adequately present her defense to the Tribunal and, if an operation is performed on her, it is to be expected that she will be able to attend the trial prior to its close and present her defense.
And, it appearing to the Tribunal, and the Tribunal finding that the interest of defendant Herta Oberhauser will not be prejudice, but on the contrary, will be best served by granting her request, and that of her Counsel for immediate hospitalization of said defendant.
Now, therefore, it is ordered that the defendant Herta Oberhauser be, and, she is hereby excused from attendance at the trial in the above entitled cause, and, until her physician reports that she is able again to be in attendance at the trial, and, that the surgeon in charge of her case shall proceed in the exercise of this judgment and discretion for the best interest of the defendant Oberhauser.
The Counsel may proceed.
Dr. Seidl: May it please the Tribunal, I now turn to the examination of Dr. Gebhardt, as a witness. And, I request that the witness be called to the witness stand.
THE PRESIDENT: The defendant Gebhardt will take the witness stand.
BY JUDGE SEBRING:
Q. Will you repeat this oath after me: I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and add nothing (The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SEBRING: You may sit down.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. SEIDL:
Q. As Exhibit 25, the Prosecution has presented a document which was given by you. The subject of this affidavit is your history and the position which you occupied within the SS. In addition to this affidavit, I now ask you to please give us a short description of your life history, and please tell the Tribunal what caused you to take up the study of medicine?
A. In order to give an exact answer to the first question, may I use the word "addition", and to take that word from the question of my defense counsel, and I want to give and clarify the efforts and the defense in my description.
Aside from the evidence which has been presented by the Prosecution details of my personal life do not seem to be very important. The most important thing in the situation, as I see it, and the most important thing, to be contained in the situation itself. I want to report about a period which was, in my life, from one war which was lost, that was the defeat in 1913, and the period to the other war, which led to the catastrophe of the present time. And, I take it upon myself to limit certain fields in my description. My medical training, and my expressly medical intentions, my life as a citizen, and that all under the power of the political events; my relationship to Himmler, my military service with the Waffen SS. Then, in order to clarify the matter, I want to draw these lines of limitations without trying to make any excuses; all without over evaluating the human action, the decency, which after all, are only natural. Perhaps I can only site one thing in advance: The I came from a bourgeois family, and that in spite of the worries and hopes, I personally found a bourgeois style of living, and. quite aside from any political considerations and school, it is probably characteristic for the German citizen that an exaggerated faith exists in obedience, in discipline, which comes from above to the lower levels, but which to the contrary, never relieves the top authorities from their responsibilities. To my assistants and to my collaborators, and the soldiers who were at the front under me, I would like, at this time, to say expressly that just because I have represented something else than the average bourgeois in the state, and that I was not at all in the characteristic political line, and just because before 1933 and after 1933, I had international relations to a very great extent, as was really the case with regard to any German physician, and especially because of this all my worries and decisions, and untruth and advice -- I have obtained advice, and I have seen untruth in many countries. May I, in accordance with the question by my defense counsel, give a rather uncertain answer with regard to my medical status.