Q. Well, that is what I say. After this decree Conti was no longer able to put up any objections, was he?
A. Certainly he could raise objections. We were not concerned that I became his superior in the Ministry of the Interior but we were concerned that whenever I received any assignment I could only carry it out with the air of other institutes. The budget of my office was kept so low that it was impossible to carry out the task which I received. As I just mentioned, the work I had in my office Planning and Economy it was necessary to extend it by aid of the Ministry of Economy. Ministry of Speer, and maybe use Industry itself. The Four Year Plan at that time no longer played a decisive role. Since, however, that was not possible the situation was that the tasks were carried out with the help of cert in parts of these agencies. But, I did not become the superior of the Ministry of Speer, the Labor Ministry, and the same was true in relation to Dr. Conti. If a demand was put to me to carry out some additional medical care, for instance in the Ruhr territory, I could only do this with the support and administrative help of the Civilian Health System, Dr. Conti on one side and the agency of Generaloberstabsarzt Handloser on the other side. If one of these parties rejected such aid, the carrying out of measures which I had to carry through was made impossible. Whenever I took over such a task I was always responsible for its carrying out and I could only be that if I received aid from the two participants accordingly, but there was no relationship of superiority.
Q. This decree represented something of a triumph over Conti and Bormann, did it not?
A. The circumventing of Bormann could not come about by the signing of this decree.
Q. But he was opposed in fact to you, was he not, Herr Brandt?
A. Yes, that was so.
Q. So it would be true to say that the issuance of this Third Fuehrer Decree did constitute something of a triumph over Bormann on your part?
A. I would be ashamed if the word "triumph" would play some part if it is in reference to the task which I had to carry out and which I had to take over.
The material work which I had to carry out went far above any personal feeling and certainly above my feeling towards an enemy.
Q. Herr Brandt, you do protest so much that I think I may have to put a document to you. I have here in front of me the minutes of the report of party member, Dr. Gross, to the Reichsleiter, dated 6 October 1944, which says "present relationship between Dr. Conti and Professor Bormann is such that Dr. Conti at the request of Bormann and Himmler is to keep his position as Reich Commissioner for Health. In the meantime Dr. Conti has subordinated himself to Professor Brandt. Therefore, Bormann drops Dr. Conti altogether." I ask you again if this Third Fuehrer Decree doesn't represent something in the nature of a triumph on your own part over some very powerful forces that were opposing you?
A. I can only repeat what I have said before. In such a case the question of material necessity is more important than any personal fooling. I knew at the time after this degree, without referring to these events that you have just mentioned, I knew at that time I had hardly any contact with Martin Bermann. The question of a subordinate of Conti under me arose but it never came about and certainly was never intended by the decree. Otherwise some other title, some other position would have originated than Reich Commissioner. The position of Conti and Generaloberstabarzt Handloser were exactly the same to me. There was no talk about that whatsoever.
Q Did Hitler ever show his appreciation of your good work by gifts of money?
AAt one time I received money from the Fuehrer.
Q When?
A Perhaps was in the year of 1943, or perhaps 1942. But, I do think it was 1943, but it may have been 1944. But, I think it is more perhaps 1944 than in 1942.
Q How much money were you given?
AAt that time I received money amounting to 50,000 marks. And, about 30,000 remained for myself because of certain expenditures I had at that time it is in reference to the task which I had to carry out and which I had to take over.
The material work which I had to carry out went far above any personal feeling and certainly above my feeling towards an enemy.
Q. Herr Brandt, you do protest so much that I think I may have to put a document to you. I have here in front of me the minutes of the report of party member, Dr. Gross, to the Reichsleiter, dated 6 October 1944, which says "present relationship between Dr. Conti and Professor Bormann is such that Dr. Conti at the request of Bormann and Himmler is to keep his position as Reich Commissioner for Health. In the meantime Dr. Conti has subordinated himself to Professor Brandt. Therefore, Bormann drops Dr. Conti altogether." I ask you again if this Third Fuehrer Decree doesn't represent something in the nature of a triumph on your own part over some very powerful forces that were opposing you?
A. I can only repeat what I have said before. In such a case the question of material necessity is more important than any personal feeling. I knew at the time after this degree, without referring to these events that you have just mentioned, I knew at that time I had hardly any contact with Martin Bermann. The question of a subordinate of Conti under me arose but it never came about and certainly was never intended by the decree. Otherwise some other title, some other position would have originated than Reich Commissioner. The position of Conti and Generaloberstabarzt Handloser were exactly the same to me. There was no talk about that whatsoever.
Q Did Hitler ever show his appreciation of your good work by gifts of money?
AAt one time I received money from the Fuehrer.
Q When?
A Perhaps was in the year of 1943, or perhaps 1942. But, I do think it was 1943, but it may have been 1944. But, I think it is more perhaps 1944 than in 1942.
Q How much money were you given?
AAt that time I received money amounting to 50,000 marks. And, about 30,000 remained for myself because of certain expenditures I had at that time
Q Did you have to pay any income tax on this money?
A No. I did not have to pay income tax.
Q For what reason was the money given to you?
A My pay as escort physician I have since the year 1934 was very scarce. I received a monthly additional salary - I don't know how it was designated - of 350 marks per month. Then I received my fees from the clinic, that is, what I earned through my activities there. This sum was increased to 750 marks during the War. My personal expenditures, because of the decrease of my income which came about after the beginning of the War, were in a different relationship. At that time I got into debt and the Fuehrer knew about it. Consequently, I received this sum of money.
Q Did you say that you received 750 marks a year as General Commissioner?
A I never mentioned the amount 750 marks with Reich Commissioner. You asked me for what reason I received this sum and I said that at first as escort physician I received 350 marks and that this sum at the beginning of the War was increased to 750 marks. When I became Commissioner General this sum dropped out and I received, I think, 1200 marks, that is monthly and not yearly.
Q Now, Herr Brandt, you have already mentioned that you were a member of the Presidential Council of the Reich Research Council?
AA member of the Presidil Council of the Reich Research Council.
Q What year did you become a member, 1942?
A I became a member in the year 1942. That's right.
Q And Goering was the President of the Reich Research Council, was he not?
A Goering was president. Yes.
Q There were twenty-one members of the Presidial Council, were there not?
A I wouldn't know that. I didn't count them. I only know about it from the documents that are available here and it shows that there were twenty-one if they were all listed.
Q Conti was a member, was he not?
A Yes, Conti was a member of that Presidial Council. Yes.
Q Bormann?
A I don't know who the individual members were. There is a list available among your documents where they are all listed. I don't know who exactly compiled that list. In the Presidial Council of that Reich Research Council, that is to say, a meeting of that Council never took place and I never learned that any such meeting came about. It was in the autumn of 194* subsequent to the decree giving the Reich Research Council to Goering, there was an introductory meeting of the Reich Research Council in its entirety where about 150 to 250 persons attended. That took place in the Ministry of Aviation. At that time no differentiation was made whether anyone was a Presidial Council member or Plenipotentiary and I cannot say who the individual members were.
Q. Herr. Brandt, the document which you have reference to was objected to and consequently it is not in the record; so, therefore, I am having to you a few questions about the Reich Research Council and the members thereof. If you do not know, then simply say so, very shortly, and we will proceed. Was Himmler a member of the Presidial Council?
A. I do not know that.
Q. Keitel?
A. I cannot say. I could only say on the basis of the list which I saw here and which I do not know whether it is correct.
Q. Well, you remember Menzel?
A. Menzel, yes.
Q. And you remember Osenberg?
A. Osenberg, yes.
Q. So we have 6, counting Menzel and Osenberg. They are all doctors, aren't they?
A. Osenberg was certainly not a physician and Menzel was not a physician either.
Q. So only 2 doctors on the Presidial Council, as far as you know.
A. As far as I know, there were only 2 physicians there. I do not know that Osenberg or Menzel were in that Presidial Council. I was in a camp together with Osenberg and I was of the opinion that he was there on the basis of his activity in the planning Office within the Reich Research Council, but, of course, I may be wrong.
Q. Did you know that the Defendant Sievers was deputy to Menzel in his capacity as the manager of ...
A. I did not know that at the time.
Q. You know that the operating section of the Reich Research Council was divided into scientific departments and fields of plenipotentiaries, don't you?
A. There were certain heads of expert departments and certain plenipotentiaries.
Q. And in these expert or scientific departments they were concerned with a great number of things other than medical research, weren't they?
For example, they had a department on physics, chemistry, mathematics, metals, engineering, agriculture, forestry, and geo-physics, did they not?
A. I have seen a list here and because of that list I saw the numerous kinds of departments which existed within the entire organization of the Reich Research Council.
Q. Now you remember the name Sauerbruch, don't you? You know who he was?
A. Yes, I know that.
Q. Wasn't he head of the scientific department for medicine of the Reich Research Council?
A. He was the head of the scientific department and I think the name "classical medicine".
Q. And in the field of plenipotentiaries you had Schreiber as plenipotentiary for epidemics. I think you have already stated that, haven't you?
A. Yes, plenipotentiary for the combatting of epidemics I think it was.
Q. And Blome for cancer?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you know a man named Jotten?
A. Jotten - Jotten, yes.
Q. He was plenipotentiary for lung diseases, wasn't he?
A. Yes, the so-called lung dust disease.
Q. Do you recall any other heads of scientific departments or plenipotentiaries concerning medicine?
A. No.
Q. Now, doctor, I put it to you that there were only two members of the Presidial Council of the Reich Research Council who were doctors and there were only four members of scientific departments or fields of plenipotentiaries who were doctors. I ask you, weren't each of you gentlemen familiar with the work that the other one was doing?
A. I don't think so.
Q. Didn't you ever consult with Sauerbruch, Blome, Schreiber, or any of them?
A. As far as I remember I did not speak to Sauerbruch about any questions with reference to the Reich Research Council. I occasionally met Sauerbruch but that was mostly in connection with completely different question merely of a consultative nature. Neither did I speak to Blome about questions of cancer research as far as I recollect. And I certainly never spoke to Schreiber about the combatting of epidemics. At the beginning of tho war I occasionally saw Schreiber; After 1942 or 1943 I hardly saw him after that. As far as I recollect, I saw Mr. Jotten only once and that was at a period of ti e when the Institute for the combatting of lung-dust disease had not yet existed.
Q. Did Menzel ever consult with you?
A. I talked to Menzel regarding general academic questions. Menzel was not only the business manager and president of the Reich Research Council but his important task was tho leadership of tho Department science within the Ministry of Education and this department contained the Sub-department Medicine I spoke to him with reference to this Sub-department Medicine within tho Ministry of Education but as far as I know I never discussed any research tasks with him.
Q. Did you know anything about or have any connection with tho assignment issued by the Reich Research Council to Rascher to conduct dry freezing experiments?
A. I did not knew that. I learned about these experiments here for the first time.
Q. Did you know anything about or have any connection with the assignment issued by the Reich Research Council to Hirt of Strasbourg to conduct gas experiments?
A. I did not participate in this assignment and I did not know about it. I heard about Hirt's activity and the work itself because of the final report which Dr. Sievers brought to me in March of 1944.
But even at that time I did not know that this assignment and this work were done in connection with the Reich Research Council, or were initiated by the Reich Research Council.
Q. Did you know anything about the support of the Reich Research Council and the Luftwaffe of Haagen's typhus, yellow fever and jaundice research?
A. No. I only learned about these experiments here, on the basis of documentary evidence.
Q. Were you or Rostock or any one in your office connected in any way with the research conducted by Rascher, Hirt, and Haagen, or any one of them?
A. I don't know abut that.
Q. Did you know that concentration camp inmates were being systematically used in Germany for medical experimentation?
A. No, I did not know that.
Q. Did you never hear anything about such experiments other than the occasion, which I think you have already admitted, in connection with Gebhardt' experiments?
A. It is very difficult now to say, now that there is so much talk about experiments going on, that one had no knowledge at that time. However, I was now informed about these experiments. Regarding the experiments of Hirt, for instance, I was at Hirt's place at the end of April 1944, and I did not gain the impression that we were concerned with experiments on some concentration camp inmates carried through in camps.
Q. Herr Brandt, one cf the important issues here is the extent of your knowledge about medical experimentation on concentration camp inmates and I want you to be very frank with us and tell us everything you know about that subject other than those few instances you have already mentioned. Do you limit yourself to the experiments specifically particularized in the indictment. I am interested in knowing the full extent of your knowledge about the use of concentration camp inmates for experimental purposes.
A. Any knowledge, which went beyond the frame of what has been placed in the Indictment against me, is not known to me. The entire material comprises a number of experiments and there experiments were not known to me. Two days ago, I defined my attitude towards the individual experiments. Beyond that, nothing became known to me about any experiments and, apart from that, I know nothing about these experiments, how they were carried out, either numerically or to what extent they were carried through.
Q. Herr Brandt, is it true that Hitler had ordered that criminal might be used for medical experiments?
A. I assume that such an order was issued by him. Himmler, on his own initiative, would not have done that without being covered by Hitler. During a previous interrogation, I stated that, according to my opinion, it happened subsequent to the threat operation which he experienced in 1935, when he said that generally it would be correct to use criminals in order to clear medical problems with their aid. He did not repeat that in any precise or basic case, but it was his conception that it was correct. That is why I have the opinion, above all, after getting to know all of the evidence here, that Himmler was only carrying them through after being governed by Hitler after he saw to it that he was covered.
Q. Do you know, as a matter of your knowledge, that Hitler ever issued such an order?
A. I never learned the fact that he issued such an order; this is merely a conclusion and retrospectively speaking, which I assume is correct.
Q. Did you ever hear Hitler discuss such a matter?
A. No, I never heard him discuss it, except in general statement about such a matter.
Q. Well, what were his general statements?
A. What I said before. According to my opinion, took place in 1935 when he discussed the question of experiments on human beings as such.
It happened without any particular case or without indicating any certain procedure. Whether he came back to that subsequently or during the war, I do not remember. At any rate, it did not occur in my presence, but I am of the conviction that he did that especially in view of the personality of Himmler.
Q. And you state it is also your conviction that this must have been so because even Himmler would hot have undertaken such things without being covered by Hitler; is that right?
A. I only drew a parallel with Martin Bermann and I should like to remind you about my discussion regarding Pastor Niemoeller. It is possible that the discussion between Himmler and the Fuehrer could have been carried on in a similar manner. It may well have been that the Fuehrer said something like that quite generally and Himmler then understood it and applied it to some specific case and then on his own initiative continued to deal with it.
Q. Herr Brandt, I know you have boon interrogated many times, but I would like to ask you if you remember having been interrogated on this same subject, about a Hitler order, in August of 1945 possibly by a British officer.
A. I don't know that any order went from Hitler in that form in 1945.
Q. You did not understand me. I asked you if you remember having been interrogated by a British officer in 1945 on this same subject of medical experiments?
A. In August of 1945; it is possible.
Q. Here is a report I have in front of me, it indicates that you stated: first, that Hitler himself had ordered condemned criminals to be used for medical experiments; and secondly, that nobody should be punished for obeying orders; is that an accurate account?
A. I can do nothing with these two sentences.
THE PRESIDENT: Has the witness been shown a copy of this Document in German?
MR. MCHANEY: If it please the Tribunal, I don't attach such importance to the evidence necessary and I will just withdraw the question. This is simply an interrogation report, it is not a verbatim report of the interrogation. It shows March 24, 1945 by Major Gill. It was done by an organization known as FIAT, a Field Intelligence Allied Technical organization.
THE PRESIDENT: Where was it made?
MR. MCHANEY: At a camp known as Dustbin rather close to Frankfurt. I am not sure of the exact name of the city, however, we will not offer this Document in evidence. I am simply trying to refresh the witness' recollection and I am asking him now about this Hitler order and whether or not it was actually issued.
THE PRESIDENT: The counsel can ask the witness if he knows of any such order and if he remembers any such order at this time.
BY MR. MCHANEY:
Q. Herr Brandt, have you told us all you know about this order of Hitler, about which you stated it was your conviction that it was issued; do you know any more about it than you have already told us?
A. I don't know an order in that form. With reference to this interrogation of Captain Gill, which possibly originated after a number of discussions, it must be a formulation which he made for his own purposes, namely, a repetition of what I have said. These questions were put to me at the same time that the chart originated about my functions and physicians when only partly true statements were made.
Q. Herr Brandt, did you know a Keitel order that the army was to have nothing to do with experiments on human beings?
A. No, I don't know that order either.
Q. If he did not in fact issue such an order, how do you explain that Keitel knew that medical experiments were being carried out on human beings and that you did not?
A. This possibly is similar to yesterday's remarks about mental institutions in the eastern territory. Those things could have been discussed during conferences on the situation in connection with the daily reports on the various illnesses, etc., and at such opport unities these experiments could well be mentioned. I assume that if Keitel received reports through suck a channel, I think it is quite possible that any results of suck experiments wero reported to Himmler to Hitler and this was done in connection with such conferences on the situation; therefore, Keitel got to know about it. Those conferences on the situation were usually of great length and they often lasted for hours and Hitler himself often spoke for hours. During suck an opportunity it is quite possible that some such thing was mentioned.
Q. Herr Brandt, I want to remind you of document No. 1309.
THE PRESIDENT: Before proceeding with the examination of the witness on these documents, the Tribunal will recess.
( A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the Court Room will please find their scats.
The Tribunal is again in session.
May it please Your Honors, the defendant Oberheuser has availed herself cf the permission granted earlier today by the Tribunal and is, at the present time, absent from the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the absence of the defendant Oberheuser pursuant to excuse by the Tribunal.
BY MR. McHANEY:
Q Herr Brandt, I have handed to you Document No. 1309 which has been introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 326. It concerns biological warfare and is an official note signed by Klieve concerning a conversation with Professor Blome on 23 February 1944. Do you find the sentence about the middle of the first paragraph where it says: "By request cf Field marshal Keitel, the armed forces arc not to have a responsible share in the experi ments since experiments will also be conducted on human beings"?
A Yes, I have found the sentence.
Q Keitel was not a doctor, was he?
A No.
Q How do you explain that Keitel, Chief of the High Command of the Wehrmacht, would knew about such a matter as this while you state to this Tribunal that you have no knowledge of systematic use of human beings in medical experimentation?
A I assume that Keitel obtained this knowledge from the discussions of the situation, which have already been mentioned, at which these things were apparently also discussed. These were basic questions of biological warfare which were certainly discussed in this connection.
Q But, Herr Brandt, isn't it perfectly obvious from this sentence that Keitel had some knowledge of previous experimentation on concentration camp inmates and that ho know that these biological warfare experiments were something of the same sort and he know that he did not wish to be associated with them himself and so issued this order?
A. It must be added that this was a report on a discussion between Klieve and Blome. It is assumed in the question which is asked of me that what is stated here corresponds to the facts. I believe one should ask Hr. Klieve and possibly Mr. Blome about this discussion.
Q Herr Brandt, you have been asked by your own counsel about supporting this Posen Institute of Blome's which was concerned with questions of biological warfare. Was this vast support which you assured Blome you would give simply in the nature of helping him with construction problems?
A It was only help in regard to construction questions, not in connection with biological warfare, but in view of his institute which he intended to. establish there for the General production of vaccine, I nay call it that. I said that the inquiry to which this document refers was between Blome and me by telephone and that a question of biological warfare and possibly any further resulting human experiments were certainly not discussed by telephone. I have also said that I wrote a letter at that time to the construction office which was helping in these natters in the Ministry for Armament and War Production and asked that Mr. Blome night be helped to establish his institution. In this respect, in connection with human experiments and so forth, there was nothing more between me and Blome.
Q What was this serum that he was to manufacture?
A I cannot say exactly what kind of serum it was. I only remember an institute in which he wanted to make arrangements to be able to produce various scrums. Fr n later discussions I knew that he considered developing various substitute products, but I cannot give any exact information about that either.
Q Will you look at the second sentence in the second paragraph where it starts, "In particular, Professor Blome sees an obstacle in the employment of the Chemical Warfare Section of the Army Ordnance Office. Therefore, he wishes to make the suggestion to the Reichs Marshal and Generalarzt Professor Brandt that the association be dissolved and he be permitted, not through the interposition of the Chemical Warfare Section of the Amy Ordnance Office, to requisition airplanes for experimental purposes directly from the Air Force Ministry."
Why should he mention your name in connection with a suggestion that the Association Blitzarbeiter be dissolved?
A I do not know. Perhaps he himself will be best able to say why he did that. He certainly did not report the matter to me, and I could even assume that he did not report it to the Reich Marshal. The name, Blitzableiter, I learned of for the first time through this document, 1309, itself. I never heard it before.
Q Did you have any connection with this chemical warfare section?
A Chemical warfare? With the chemical warfare section I had a certain amount of connection under the anti-chemical warfare program which began in 1944. It was a testing station for the necessary defense materials, and in connection with Luftwaffe Ministry's own testing stations, but it was certainly a different group of people who worked on these matters than the ones connected with this matter.
Q Well, Herr Brandt, I rather thought that you had something to do with chemical warfare and Lost problems before Gearing's order of 1 March 1944. How long were you connected with this chemical warfare section of the Army Ordinance Office?
A There was a Colonel Hirsch, whom I believe I met for the first time in the middle of March '44. I did not know him before then.
Q Well, Herr Brandt, this document is dated 23 February 1944 and I must assume that you were therefore interested in chemical warfare problems before the order of 1 March 1944 that has already been mentioned in the record?
A I have already said that this question was certainly outside of that. The decree, because of which Mr. Sievers visited me at that time, it was dated 1 March. In my opinion the question of Blitzableiter and my connection with the Blitzableiter is to be traced back to Blome's idea, who approached me about his general institute, and the reference that he wants to report to the Reich Marshal and Generalsarzt Dr. Brandt that the association will be dissolved and so forth has no justification in my opinion, has no basis in fact. Mr. Blome could not have had any reason to think that I had anything to do with the central office for the "W H Prufstelle 9" before that, and I myself do not remember that I met these gentlemen for any other reason.
Q Herr Brandt, did you have any connection with any experiments with gas prior to 1 March 1944?
A In the fall of '43 I was informed about general laboratory experiments which a Professor Bickenbach had made. These were experiments such ashed been done in Strasbourg and I believe in Heidelberg too, and these are the only ones which occur to me in this connection. I also know that I no longer remember the date I was informed in a conversation that experiments had been conducted on cadets in the Military Medical Academy, but those are tilings which had nothing to do with the problem of "W H Prufstelle 91.
Q How did it come about that Bickenbach's experiments were reported to you? What interests did you have in his gas experiments?
A I had no interest in his gas experiments. I met Bickenbach for another reason, for a different reason, and then when we met again he informed me about what he had done.
Q And what did you do with respect to Bickenbach's reports? Did you have any other association with him?
A Later I helped him to arrange a laboratory in Strasbourg.
Q And that's the laboratory we heard some mention about from one of the witnesses from Strasbourg, was it not, Herr Brandt?
A I assume that it was the same one.
Q Do you recall that the witness Schmidt testified that there were rumors in Strasbourg that Bickenbach was experimenting with gas in one of the old forts ?
A Yes, I remember that.
Q Do you also recall that he said that those rumors included the use of human beings by Bickenbach?
A No, I do not remember that from the testimony of the witness Schmidt, and it might have been a rumor, I don't know, but it is improbable since Bickenbach himself had approached me on the question of animals and I myself made every effort to get suitable experimental animals. And I do not believe that the fact that animal experiments are conducted justifies the conclusion that animal experiments are conducted in order that human experiments may be conducted.
The problem is rather of the opposite sort. Animal experiments are conducted because one is convinced that they are right in themselves and can lead to a result.
Q Did you ever visit Bickenbach's experimental station in Strasbourg?
A I do not know that he had an experimental station in Strasbourg. I looked at an electrical apparatus in Strasbourg, the cyclotron. I believe it was one of the only ones of tins type what we had in Germany; it was finished but it was not used.
Q Do you deny any knowledge that Bickenbach did experiments on human beings with gas?
A He conducted animal experiments and he approached me expressly in order to obtain animals. I was only able to help him to a limited extent. It was very difficult for the to obtain animals, and before I met him, Bickenbach had only conducted animal experiments. The question of human experiments was something which was not discussed at this time. The experiments which he had begun, before the war I believe he wanted to continue, and these experiments were significant bug only in rather theoretical beginnings.
Q But so far as you know Bickenbach did not experiment on human beings?
A Bickenbach did not conduct any experiments on human beings.
Q Why were you. so interested in Bickenbach's work that you went to considerable trouble to secure experimental animals for him?
A. The task which he had set himself was a special one and it seemed quite justified to support this work. I was only able to help him in the year 1944 after he himself had established this laboratory for himself.
Q Let's look again at the document before you, 1309? at the bottom of the second paragraph we find the language: "Especially necessary is and examination of our vaccine, the pestilential virus, plague vaccine in particular. Experiments must, accordingly, be made on human beings. Furthermore certain Misconception concerning the effect of maximum doses of several poisons can be corrected only by experiments on human beings. As soon as Professor Blome has conferred with the Reich Marshal and Generalsarzt Professor Brandt, he will notify me."
Did Blome confer with you about these virus vaccine experiments on human beings?
A No.
Q Did he confer with you about the poison experiments?
A No.
Q Let's turn to the next page of the document; the memorandum dated 22 May 1944 directed to Blitzableiter. In the last sentence it says: "Furthermore a nebulizer with motor drive has been built which ssterilizes and disinfects the air in the room. The apparatus can also be used simultaneously for the purpose of decontamination. As soon as the various experiments have been completed the apparatus will be demonstrated to the association."
Herr Brandt, is that the apparatus in connection with the decontamination of poisoned water that you have previously mentioned in direct examination?