September '46, I came to Nurnberg. I was in noway acquainted with American penal procedure, and I was not informed whether I was to be a witness or a defendant. I did not know that I could refuse to sign this affidavit and demand that it be translated into German. The interrogator did not inform me about all these things.
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President, with reference to the ruling of the Tribunal in the session of 3 January 1947, page 1079 and 1080 of the English transcript, I make application that the affidavit, Document NO-429 not be admitted and that it be stricken from the record. From the testimony of the witness it can be seen that he did not answer any questions. He was interrogated without being warned. Also he did not understand English well enough in order to get the meaning of the affidavit where every word is important, and the affidavit was not translated for him.
In regard to the final point, I refer especially to the work of Warden, Evidence in Criminal Cases, Volume 3, edition 1935, page 21-26 where it is expressly stated that it is absolutely essential to employ a translator if the person making the statement does not understand English.
EXAMINATION BY JUDGE SEBRING:
Q.- Witness, as I understand your testimony it is that the affidavit which appears in prosecution document book 12 at page 1, as prosecution document NO-429, prosecution exhibit 281 was taken in the English language, was then given to you in English, that you then read it over and signed it. Is my understanding of what you have said correct?
A.- Yes, Your Honor, it was read to me. It was read aloud and I read it myself, and as I already said, I can carry on a conversation in English. When I can't think of words I ca.n circumscribe them, I understood the general meaning of the affidavit but not the exact meaning and not every word.
Q.- Do you have before you now a copy of the English version of that affidavit?
A.- I have the German text.
Q.- ill the page hand to the witness the English text? Are you able to read English, witness?
A.- Yes, I think so.
Q.- Will you please -
A.- Pronunciation won't be quite right. I have been learning a little more English since this trial has been going on.
Q.- Well, you road English well enough to know, regardless of your pronunciation, when you come to an English word or phrase or sentence that you do not fully understand, don't you?
A.- Yes, your Honor. If something is read to me and I am just following, I understand the general sense and then I imagine that I understood, but afterwards I find out as in this case, that there are many words that I did not understand and sometimes the meaning was different from what I thought. For example, when I read books -- I have been reading some English books lately -- I understood the general sense and I knew what the story was about, but I didn't understand all the details.
Q.- Well, I am going to read to you the last paragraph of this document, your affidavit, and I want you to listen carefully and when I have finished with it I want you to talk into the microphone in German, giving you version of what you have understood this to mean, and I want you to get the English channel and; I read it to you, not the German channel. Can that be arranged? Are you hearing now?
A.- I am hearing in English.
Q.- Yes. Then I shall read the last paragraph.
A.- I shall not read with you, sir?
Q.- Can you hear me?
A.- I can hear you.
Q.- Yes. Well now, listen to what I read.
A.- Yes sir.
Q.- Quote: "The above affidavit written in the English language, consisting of five pages, is true and correct to the best of my know ledge and belief.
This affidavit was given by me freely and voluntarily without promise of reward and I was subject to no duress or threat of any kind." Unquote. Now, do you understand what that means as I have reat it to you?
A.- Shall I answer in German or in English?
Q.- You may answer in English if you care to.
A.- Since this trial there are many words I have heard now which I didn't know before, One word, sir, you started was I think "quoted", "I quote". And that's a word I have heard many times now in these sessions. I didn't know it before.
Q.- What other words are there in the quotation I have read you which you do no understand?
A.- "Subjected."
Q.- Will you repeat, please?
A.- "Subjected", I think you said.
Q.- Perhaps if you will turn to the English version at page 6, that last paragraph, and read that if you will, and then explain to us any words there you do not understand?
A.- It is the word "affidavit". I only knew it after the beginning of this trial. I didn't hear it before.
Q.- What other words?
A.- It seems to be very funny, but it's true, "voluntarily", I didn't know it before, but of course, I know it now as I heard it many times.
Q.- "Reward", (spelling) r-c-w-a-r-d. And as I told you before, "Subjected", and the word "threat", I didn't know. My opinion was it means a traitor or something like that.
Q.- Now, are there other words?
A.- No, that's all, sir.
Q.- In other words, you said that prior to the time you signed this affidavit you were not familiar with the word "affidavit"?
A.- Yes, that's right/
Q.- You were not familiar with the word "voluntarily"?
A.- That's right.
Q.- You were not familiar with the word "subjected"?
A.- Yes, that's right.
Q.- You were not familiar with the word "duress" (spelling) d-u-r-e-s-s; is that correct?
A.- Duress -- I think it was "reward" (spelling) r-e-w-a-r-d.
Q.- Reward?
A.- Reward.
Q.- You did not know what the word "reward" meant?
A.- Yes, sir.
Q.- And then the final word that you did not understand was the word -
A.- "Throat" (spelling) t-h-r-e-a-t. But I know it now of course.
Q.- Threat, you did not know that word?
A.- "True"?
Q.- No, (spelling) t-h-r-e-a-t?
A.- "Threat", yes, that's right.
Q.- You did not know that word?
A.- No.
Q.- So then if we are to take those words out of the final paragraph in the first line then will appear this statement, which as I understand you say you understood at the time.
A.- Yes, sir.
Q.- Quote: "The above written in the English language, consisting of five pages is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. This affidavit -- you said you did not understand "affidavit", so I will delete that, so it would read: "This was given by me freely and without promise." Now, isn't that the effect of you understanding of that final paragraph?
A I think the misunderstanding arises because I do know a little conversational English; as I have already said in the course of this trial I have frequently listened to the English translation and have learned a great deal in that way. And since I could carry on a conversation more or less by circumscribing the words I did not know, then I thought that what was read to me and what I followed w as right but there were some words that I did not understand; but I thought that I understood the meaning and that it was more or less what I had testified. Besides, it went off rather fast and I had the impression that there were a great hurry for me to sign it an I did sign it.
Q Will you be prepared when the Tribunal convenes on Monday, to have gone over the English text of this document and its translation, and then advise the Tribunal from the witness stand just what portions of it you now say that you did not understand at that time?
A Your Honor, I shall be glad to do that. I should like to point out once more that at the time, I did not quite realize the meaning those various words because I did not know the purpose of this affidavit. I did not know that it was going to be used in an indictment against myself. There were individual matters which could have been clarified or explained and they disort the meaning without being explained. I found out quite definitely that part of the affidavit, concerning the selection of experimental subjects, was never said by me in this form, never. Since on the whole I understood the general form of this document and saw a few words that were right, I assumed that it was just what I said. I realize that if the person who wrote this affidavit was not present at the interrogation it would be very easy to distort the meaning.
Q Well suppose you prepare yourself to comply with the request of the Tribunal regarding such portions of the affidavit in the English language as you are prepared to say that you did not know at the time you signed the affidavit what you were signing and then, following that, be prepared to tell the Tribunal what portions of that affidavit you now say are true and what portions you say are untrue and.
do not reflect what you said at that time or do not reflect the truth.
A I shall try, Your Honor, to follow your instructions. It will take some time especially since in the meantime I have learned a good many words, especially words which appear repeatedly in this affidavit, but I shall try to reconstruct what I know at that time.
THE PRESIDENT: If there is nothing more to be said, the Tribunal will now take its recess.
Does counsel desire to make any other statement?
MR. HARDY: Of course I anticipate the Tribunal will not rule out this affidavit before I have had the opportunity to cross examine the witness on the affidavit?
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will certainly not rule before you have had an opportunity to cross-examine the witness.
The Tribunal will now be in recess until 9:30 o!clock Monday morning.
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal will now be in recess until 9:30 o'clock Monday morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 23 June 1947, at 09:30 hours.)
Official Transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America, against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nurnberg, Germany, on 23 June, 1947. 0930-0945: Justice Beals, presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats.
The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 1.
Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal.
There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain that the defendants are all present in Court?
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honors, all the defendants are present in the Court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will not for the record the presence of all the defendants in Court.
The defendant Hoven is reminded he is still under oath.
Counsel may proceed:
DR. GAWLIK: Mr. President. May I make the examination about the affidavit, the words which the defendant did not understand or does the Tribunal want to ask him these questions?
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, in what document book is this affidavit found? The Tribunal does not have that reference.
DR. GAWLIK: Document Book 12, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: What page?
DR. GAWLIK: Page 1, the first document.
BY JUDGE SEBRING:
Q.- Witness, on Saturday of last week just prior to the time that the Court took it's recess we had under consideration prosecution Document No. NO-429, prosecution Exhibit 261, appearing in Prosecution Document Book 12. I believe your testimony was to the effect that this affidavit was made by you originally in the English language and signed by you and that at t he time you signed it there were certain English words or phrases in the affidavit which were strange or unknown to you and that consequently you did not understand the full and clearly legal import of the paper you were signing.
Is that the effect of you assertion to the Tribunal?
A.- Yes. exactly.
Q.- Do you have before you at the present time the English version of Document No. N*-429?
A.- Yes, Your Honor.
Q.- Will you be good enough to refer to that document beginning with paragraph one thereof and tell the Tribunal what words, phrases, clauses or sentences are contained therein, the legal import and the textual import of which was not fully understood by you at the time you signed the affidavit?
A.- In paragraph I, the word "affidavit." In the first sentence the word "duly", in the second line, the word "concluded", in the next line -
Q.- Wait just a moment, please. I do not see the word "concluded", in this affidavit.
A.- In the seventh line, Your Honor. "In 1939 I concluded my medical studies."
Q.- Very well, you may proceed.
A.- In the next line the word "joined."
Q.- You mean in the sentence which reads: Quote - "In 1934, I had joined the Allgemeine SS."
A.- Three lines before that, but it is the same word: "Joined the Waffen SS as a physician."
Q.- Very well.
A.- The same word is in the last sentence of the first paragraph.
Q.- Very well.
A In the second paragraph "assigned" in the first sentence. In the third line "I was appointed", the word "appointed". In the fifth lino "in charge". In the third paragraph.....
Q Very well.
A In the third line from the bottom on this page; paragraph three; "acquainted".
Q Very well.
A On page 2 "spotted fever". As far as I know today that is the wrong term. It should probably be "typhus". In the second lino of paragraph 4 "effectiveness".
Q Is that in paragraph 4?
A Yes, the second line at the end of the lino.
Q Very well.
A In the fifth line of paragraph the word "supervision".
Q In other words, the words "the direct supervision"? That was not understood by you.?
A That's right.
Q Very well.
A Then in the third line from the end of paragraph there is a word that looks like "chain"; c-h-a-i-n; "chain of command".
Q Very Well.
A In paragraph 5, the third word in the first line "recollect". Paragraph 6 on page 3 the first expression "in as much as". I know the word "much". I know what "as" moans but I don't know this whole expression "in as much as". And I don't know "constantly" either. I knew "very friendly" in the second lino of paragraph 6. I used the word "zweckfreundschaft" in German. The interrogator told me it meant the same thing.
Q I will ask the translators whether or not they agree that it moans the same thing?
INTERPRETER: Your Honor; "zweckfreundschaft" would moan "friendship of expediency".
A In the second lino of paragraph 6 the word "frequently". The last word in the third line from the end of paragraph six there is the word "in charge" which has already been mentioned. Paragraph 7, third line at the end, "spotted fever" again. In the 4th lino "in order to contrast". In the 7th line "previous" - the third word. Paragraph 8, the last word in the first line "purposes".
Q In other words "for the purpose of"?
A Yes. Then in the 4th lino of paragraph 3 "human beings". I had not hoard of this expression before the trial. I thought the translation for "menschen" was people.
Q Did you understand what the word "human" or "humans" meant?
A Not "human beings".
Q Did you understand what the word "human" or "humans" meant?
A It says "human" here.
Q Did you understand what that meant?
A Yes, I understand that.
I know the word today, of course.
Q Did you know it then?
A I didn't know what "beings" meant, that "human beings" was the same thing as people.
Q But you did know what "humans", h-u-m-a-n-s, meant?
A Humane?
Q Very well.
A On page 3, the last word in the second line from the bottom "request". And, the last word on the page "referred". On page 4 the word "notified" in the second line. "Request" the first word in the 4th line I have already mentioned. In the same lino "at random". I never hoard that in my life. And the last word in that lino "roster". In the 7th line "event". In the last line "requested" again. In the 9th line "substitutes" and the next word in that line that I didn't know was "provides". The 10th line "victims". In the 11th line "approval".
In the 12th line "check to ascertain". And the last word in the paragraph "requirements". Paragraph 9 on page 4, the last word in the heading "extermination". And the third word in the first sentence "aware". In the second line the word "extermination" occurs again. The first word in the third line "deficient". The sane word occurs again in the 7th lino. In the 10th line the word "extermination again. In the 11th line at the beginning of the sentence "accordance". In the last line on this page the word "extermination" again.
Page 5, first sentence "exterminated". The first three words in the third line "issue falsified statements". Paragraph 10 the last word of the heading "means". In the 5th lino the word "average" and the next word "hence". In the same line the word "envied". In the 7th lino the word "traitors". In the 8th line the word "grapevine". In the 9th lino the word "traitors". In the 10th and 11th lines the word "statements" is repeated. Paragraph 11 the third word "instance I supervise".
Q Now, just what is the word "instance" or the word "supervised"?
A Both.
Q In the 7th line, paragraph 11, "performed" .
On page 6, in the 5th line "supervision" and "means" in the 5th line.
Q And then, I Believe you said, at the Saturday session, that in the final paragraph Below Paragraph 12 you did not understand the words "affidavit" , "voluntarily" , " reward" and " threat".
A That is right.
Q Did you understand the word "duress" , D U R E S S ?
A I can't say today. It's possible that I connected it with the French word for hard which is "dure" .
Q Very well.
Now, let me ask you this. T here are several words in this paper signed By you which you did not understand at the time you signed the paper. Can you say that you did not understand the import of the words from the general context of the paper?
A I pm sure that I did not understand the full significance. It was read to me and I read it myself, perhaps a little superficially. I knew what it was about, But I did not understand the exact meaning of all the individual words. I Believed at the time that I had understood the meaning But, Because I could speak a little English and could carry on a little conversation, I may have over-estimated my understanding.
Q Very well.
And you say that you did not understand the words "spotted fever"?
A I had never heard it Before.
Q So that, as a matter of fact, wherever the words "spotted fever" appear then the Tribunal is to understand that you did not understand its connotation, is that correct?
A I can not say for certain. I am sure I did not know the word itself, But it is possible that I did understand the context. I can not say for certain. I only know that I did not know the words, but it might be that I did get the meaning of it because there's the word "fever" .
Q You understand then the general connotation of the word "fever"?
A Yes. As I know now, through the trial, this is the wrong expression in English. It should be typhus I have discovered.
Q Then with the words eliminated from this paper you signed, I am going to read into the record the paper or affidavit as it now is is with the deletions which you say were not understood by young.
I believe, Mr. President, that in the Tribunal's final study of this document if it is in the record in this form it may be of some aid to the Tribunal.
THE PRESIDENT: You're right, sir.
JUDGE SEBRING:
"I, Waldemar Hoven, being sworn, depose and state:
"1. I was born in Freiburg in Breisgau on the 10th of February 1903. I attended high school but did not complete my education until many years later. Between the years 1919 and 1933 I visited Denmark, Sweden, United States, and France. In 1933 I returned to Freiburg and completed my high school course end then attended the Universities of Freiburg and Munich. In 1939 I -medical studies and the Waffen-SS as a physician. The last rank I held in the Waffen-SS was Hauptsturmfuehrer. In 1944 I had the Allgemeine SS." Incidentally, for the sake of the shorthand reports, wherever I make a pause will be the place where there is a deletion of a word.
Beginning with the second paragraph:
" 2. In October 1939 I was - an assistant medical officer in the SS Hospital in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp and held, that position until 1941 when I was -- the Medical Officer of the SS troops stationed in the camp. At the end of 1941 I was transferred to the camp hospital and became the Assistant Medical Officer therein. This hospital was for the inmates of the Buchenwald Concentra tion camp.
In July 1942 I was elevated to the position of Chief Physician and thereby had the full responsibility for the innate patients in the hospital. I held this position until September 1943 when I was arrested by the SS Police Court of Kassel and remained under arrest until 15th of March 1945.
" 3. Due to my various positions in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp during this period of nearly four years I became - with all phases of the medical activities therein and am hereby able to make the following statements:"
"FEVER AND VIRUS EXPERIMENTS "4. In the latter part of 1941 an experimental station was established in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp in order to determine the of various fever vaccines.
This department was called the ' Fever Experimental Station' and was under Dr. Ding, alias Schuler.
This experimental station was set up in Block 46 of the camp. The Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS in Berlin, under the command of Dr. Joachim Mrugowsky, received all the reports of these activities and Dr. Ding took orders from Mrugowsky. In the early days, that is, between 1941 and the summer of 1943, Dr. Ding had many meetings in Berlin with Dr. Karl Genzken concerning his work at Buchenwald in connection with the fever experiments. Dr. Ding told me that Dr. Genzken had a special interest in these matters and that he sent him reports at various times. Dr. Ding also said that Dr. Karl Genzken was one of his superiors. From my association with Dr. Ding I understood that Fever Experimental Station' was as follows: Reichsarzt SS Grawitz, Genzken, Mrugowsky, and Ding.
"5. I can that Dr. Genzken gave orders to Dr. Ding in January 1943 to enlarge the experimental station. At this time Block 50 was cleaned out and made into a station for the production of the various vaccines to be used in the experiments at Block 46. From this time on the experimental station was know as 'Department Fever and Virus Research of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS'. Then in the summer of 1943 Dr. Genzken turned all his duties over to Dr. Mrugowsky and from that time on Genzken no longer actively participated in these matters. I can recall meeting Dr. Mrugowsky in the home of Dr. Ding on one of his visits to Buchenwald.
"6. I was associated with Dr. Ding at Buchenwald, we became 'friendship of expediency'. I discussed matters with Ding and visited his experimental station from time to time. As a matter of fact, Dr. Ding had to go to Berlin for discussions with Dr. Mrugowsky and others nearly three days out of every two weeks, and on such occasions I was the Fever Institute.
However, when Ding went to Berlin, the experiments were discontinued until he returned.
"7. The experiments at Block 46 in the Buchenwald Concentration Camp were conducted as follows: One group of victims were first vaccinated with the fever vaccine and then infected with the fever virus. the effectiveness of the vaccine another group of inmates were merely infected with the fever virus without any vaccination. Between the autumn of 1942 and the summer of 1943 about 500 inmates of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp were used in these experiments. During my time about ten percent of the total number of the inmates used died as a result. heard that a larger number of the victims died after my time; that is about twenty percent.
"8. The selection of inmates to be used for medical experiments in Block 46 by the 'Institute for Fever and Virus Research' was as follows: Whenever Dr. Ding needed for his work, was made to the office of the Camp Commandant and to me for action. Usually a man named Schober, an SS Hauptsturm fuehrer, me to select the necessary number of prisoners for these purposes. In accordance with this I selected various inmates from the camp. They were placed on a list over my signature and returned to Schober, who often removed certain names from the list for political reasons. In the that particular prisoners were removed from the list, I was to select in order Dr. Ding with the desired number . After I returned the completed list to Schober, it was given to Dr. Ding . He made a final , from a medical point of view, the physical condition of the selected inmates and to determine whether or not they met his .
TRANSFER OF INMATES TO THE BERNBURG
EUTHANASIA STATION
"9. I "became in 1941 that the so-called 'Euthanasia' program for the the mentally and physically was being carried out in Germany. At that time the camp commander, Koch, called all the important SS officials of the camp together and informed them that he had received a secret order from Himmler to the effect that all mentally and physically inmates of the camp should be killed. The camp commander stated that higher authorities from Berlin ordered that all the Jewish inmates of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp should be included in this program. In these orders 300 to 400 Jewish prisoners of different nationalities were sent to the 'Euthanasia Station' at Bernburg . A few days later I received a list of the names of those Jews who were at Bernburg from the camp commander and was ordered to of death.
I obeyed this order. This particular action was executed under the code name '14 f 13'. I visited Bernhurg on one occasion to arrange for the cremation of two inmates who died in the Wernigerode Branch ( ) of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp.
THE KILLING OF INMATES BY PHENOL AND OTHER.
"10. In the camp we had a great many prisoners who were jealous of the positions held by a certain few of the inmates, that is, some of the political prisoners held key positions and were able to get better living conditions . Hence, many of the prisoners these positions and made every effort to discredit the men who held the key positions. Such actions became known to the men in the key positions and then such were immediately killed. In each case I was later notified in order to make out the death of the prisoners killed. These did not indicate the actual cause of death, but were made out to indicate that the prisoner died of natural causes.
"11. In some the killing of these unworthy inmates by injections of phenol at the request of the inmates. These killings took place in the camp hospital and I was assisted by several inmates. On one occasion Dr. Ding cane to the hospital to witness such killings with phenol and said that I was not doing it correctly; therefore, he some of the injections himself. At that time three inmates were killed with phenol injections and they died within a minute.
"12. The total number of traitors killed was about 150, of whom 60 were killed by phenol injections, either by myself or under my in the camp hospital, and the rest were killed by various such as beatings, by the inmates.
"The above written in the English language, consisting of five (5) pages, is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. This was given by me freely and , without promise of and I was to no or of any kind."
I believe that completes the affidavit as it is, Dr. Gawlik, with the words omitted that the witness said he did not understand or fully comprehend their import.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Witness, have you recently examined the original of your affidavit?
A. The original? No.
Q. Are you aware of the fact that in paragraph 4 after the words "Spotted Fever Experimental Station" in the document which you have there appear in parenthesis the words "Fleckfieber Versuchsstation", with some other German words, including again "Fleckfieber and Virus Forschung"? Are you aware of the fact that those words appear in German after the English words "Spotted Fever Experimental Station"?
A. Since you remind me of it, Mr. President, I remember. I understood Judge Sebring to tell him what words I do not know and I had never heard the word "spotted fever" before.
A. Are you aware of the fact the words in German which I have endeavored to read appear in your original affidavit?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you understood perfectly well what the words "spotted fever" in English meant, because they were translated in German immediately following those words in English?
A. Judge Sebring asked me what it was. I did not know.
Q. I understand that.
A. I knew that this was about the typhus experimental station, yes.
Q. And when you signed this affidavit, you knew the German words translated "spotted fever experimental station" appeared in the affidavit which you signed?
A. As far as I can remember, I had read "spotted fever". I probably read the German "Fleckfieber and Virus Forschung", and I probably just ignored the "spotted fever".
Q. But those words were in the affidavit in German when you signed it?
A. Yes.
Q. In paragraph 5, beginning with the second sentence it reads in English in the affidavit before you, "From this time on the experimental station was known as 'Department for Spotted Fever and Virus Research of the Hygiene Institute of the Waffen SS'." Following those words in your original affidavit appear in parenthesis those same words in German, "Hygiene Institut der Waffen SS - Abteilung fuer Fleckfieber und Virus Forschung". Do you remember that?
A. Yes, that is right.
Q. Now, you had every opportunity, witness, to correct your affidavit, did you not?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember making any corrections in it?
A. Yes, I did.