Q. In September 1943, Rose was in Copenhagen in connection with the question of increasing production of typhus vaccine; do you know anything about this?
A. Yes.
Q. Please tell us about it in detail?
A. The General of the Medical Service asked Professor Rose to negotiate directly with the serum manufacturer in Copenhagen. This is General Schrieber of the Wehrmacht, he asked to find out if there could not be produced typhus vaccines for the German Wehrmacht. This trip of Rose was without any consequences, because the Copenhagen Institute turned his request down. After his return Rose drew up a report on the trip, which he sent among others to Geheimrat Otto in Frankfurt, to the Behring Werkes, and to Professor Gildemeister, as Chief of the Typhus Department in the Robert Koch Institute. Professor Rose brought back from Copenhagen a few samples of the typhus vaccine, or if he did not do so at any rate he received them immediately thereafter. Professor Rose transmitted these samples to the aforementioned persons, including Professor Gildemeister. Then Professor Rose concerned himself no further about the matter.
Q. Witness, I show you in this connection Document Book No. 12 of the Prosecution. On pages 36 to 56, Document 265, Prosecution Exhibit 287, there is a diary by one Dr. Ding regarding his human being experiments in the concentration camp of Buchenwald. Please turn to page 53 of this document book then under the date of 8 March 1944, you find the following entry. I quote: "Typhus vaccine, Experimental Series No. VIII. 8 March 1944. On Professor Rose's subject the Copenhagen vaccine (produced from mice livers) was tested for its protective qualities on human beings." What do you have to say about that?
A. As I have already said, Professor Rose sent all the samples of vaccine that he had brought back or had received from Copenhagen,-whether he sent them to persons other than the three I mentioned I can no longer say under oath today, but most assuredly he sent no sample to a concentration camp or to an SS office or to any Dr. Ding, whose name I heard first in connection with this trial. If I had heard it I should certainly have recalled it. I am inclined to believe on the contrary that Professor Gildemeister was the one who sent these samples on, with an indication that he had received them from Rose to be tested in his laboratory. This is the only way I could explain this entry here, which is made only 9 months after the Copenhagen trip.
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, what was the date of the entry in the Ding diary to which you referred?
MR. HARDY: Page 49 of the English, your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: We haven't it here.
DR. FRITZ: The date is 8 March 1944, until the 18 of March 1944.
THE PRESIDENT: In the description sheet of this witness it is stated she worked for the defendant Rose from 1939 until 1943, not 1944, is that correct?
BY DR. FRITZ:
Q. Yes, now I must say the following in this connection, Mr. President; first in my copy I cannot read the last digit in the identification of the year; it is one 4; I only assumed it is 1944, my copy being unclear; witness, can you clarify this?
A. After I left Professor Rose when he was in Berlin on business, I did work for him thereafter. From seeing the mail, I knew a little, but I never heard anything about this Dr. Ding or any such matter.
Q. The Copenhagen trip took place when?
A. The Copenhagen trip took place while I was working for Rose and at that time the vaccine was passed on.
Q. It occurs to us now that this entry is considerable later than that trip?
A. Yes; and I know that the Copenhagen trip was included in the file and stored and Professor Rose never asked about it again.
THE PRESIDENT: I desire that the matter be clarified. BY DR. FRITZ:
Q. When did the Copenhagen trip take place; I have it down for September, 1943 in my notes?
A. Yes, autumn of 1943 was the date.
Q. You were then employed as private secretary by Professor Rose at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. And this entry that I have just put to you, but which you had not previously seen, refers to 1944 and I ask you what you, on the basis of your own knowledge of the year 1943, can say about this entry, and the words that interest me are: "On Professor Rose's suggestion such and such a series of experiments?".
A. I cannot imagine what is going on here, because Professor Rose abandoned this whole matter in 1943 and as long as I was there, he never asked me about the business nor were any inquiries directed to us from outside on this question. Professor Rose did not interest himself in this question and I believe I can say from what I know about the affair that he undertook this Copenhagen trip because he was asked to do so and knew the set-up in Copenhagen and had two special vaccines. We hoped that we could augment our supply of vaccine but when the trip turned out to have been in vain, that finished the matter for Professor Rose.
Q. And now one more question; the vaccine samples that you mentioned which Professor Rose brought back with him or which were sent to him after the trip, did he pass them on while you were still employed by him?
A. Yes, whether that was done in writing or whether one of the assistants simply was asked to carry the samples over, that I do not know.
Q. Now another question; at the typhus department a number of foreign guests were introduced to the methods used; did these foreign guests also visit Professor Rose?
A. Occasionally gentlemen dropped in who said that they had worked at the typhus department and who wanted to be introduced to Professor Rose. I remember there was a Turk, who kept on coming back because he insisted on talking to Professor Rose, however, he did not speak to him at all, because at this time Professor Rose was on an extended official trip. We told the other gentlemen who dropped in that Professor Rose was too busy and he did not receive anyone in the institute.
Q. What were the relations in general between Gildemeister and Rose?
A. The personal relations between them was not auspicious, Professor Gildemeister was a very punctilious and beaurocratic man and it was of great importance to him that he should receive due respect as the superior, he concerned himself with every trifle. Professor Rose, on the other hand, was a very independent person, very generous and permitted great freedom in our work. These differences in character caused frequent friction between the two men. It also must be said that Professor Rose could become very excited and used very drastic language when he was annoyed by red tape and even when he was talking to the President, he did not restrain himself.
Q. How did you know that; were you present at such events?
A. Yes, Professor Rose only went very infrequently to Dr. Gildemeister and if possible settled everything by phone. When he made these phone calls, he did not want me out of the office, because I had to take notes, consequently, I frequently heard the conversations or at least his half of them. It was also his custom to have the personal conferences that he had with the President taken down immediately for the records so that at least their contents should be recorded. From this also I could see that there were very frequent differences of opinion between the two gentlemen.
Q. Now, at the beginning of 1943 Professor Rose became Vice President of the Robert Koch Institute; is that true?
A. Yes, on April 1st.
Q. How did this work out?
A. Practically it had no consequences, Professor Rose joined the air force and could not exercise his function as vice president It was said around the institute in those days that Professor Gildemeister had strenuously opposed Rose's appointment as vice president. The reappointment of a vice president at this time was in connection with the reorganization of the Prussian institute back for a Reich's institute on April 1, 1942, however, Rose's appointment occurred only on April 1, 1943. This delay was attributed only to Gildemeister's opposition.
Q. Here in this trial Professor Rose has been characterized by the Tribunal as Gildemeister's closest friend and collaborator, particularly in the field of typhus; is that so far as you know correct?
A. Now as I have already stated, the personal relations between the tow men were not good and there never could have been anything such as a close friendship between the two, rather the contrary is true. Also there was no agreement in scientific matters between them insofar as I could judge as an untrained observer; on the contrary the two gentlemen frequently had altercations. Gildemeister did not work with Rose in the field of typhus, now was there any connection between the typhus department and the department for tropical medicine.
I never took down any dictation from which it can be seen that typhus experiments were discussed by the two men with one single exeption, about which I will be subsequently examined. There was no connection or collaboration between the two departments or men and this shows that neither Pro fessor Rose nor any employee in his department found out, except for the fact that someone felt ill when the laboratory assistants were one after the other injected by Gieldmeister in the typhus laboratory, despite the fact that they had received Protective vaccines.
Q The Prosecution assets further and has submitted documents to the effect that Professor Gildemeister took part in the typhus experiments in concentration camps and that Professor Rose took part in the planning and carrying out of these experiments; do you have anything to say about that?
A I can say most definitely that I knew nothing about that; if Professor Rose ever worked with Professor Girldemeister on typhus I should have certainly found out anything on that sort. There was scientific collaboration between the two men at all. Professor Rose simply submitted the official reports of his department that was all otherwise he worked completely independently in his department and not in connection with Gildemeister.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now be in recess until 1:30 this afternoon. I was in error, I forgot the Tribunal recesses until 10:10 tomorrow morning.
(A recess was taken until 10:10 Hours 17 April, 1947.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nuernberg, Germany, on 17 April 1947, 1030, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: The Honorable Judges of Military Tribunal I. Military Tribunal I is now in session. God save the United States of America and this Honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain if all the defendants are present?
THE MARSHAL: May it please Your Honor, all the defendants are present in court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court.
The Tribunal will sit this morning until 12:30 without any recess.
Counsel may proceed.
LOTTE BLOCK - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. FRITZ (Counsel for the defendant Rose):
Q. Witness, I have a question first of all regarding your testimony yesterday --
THE PRESIDENT: I will remind the witness that she is still under oath.
Q. I showed you yesterday Ding's diary and you testified yesterday that you held it unlikely that the entry of March 1944 was correct, according to which the series of experiments with the Copenhagen vaccine was supposedly carried out on the suggestion of Professor Rose. Will you tell the Tribunal briefly how you cane to this conclusion?
A. When in 1943 Rose returned from his trip to Copenhagen, the samples of typhus vaccine were immediately distributed. Professor Rose sent the documents to be filed and regarded the whole matter as settled. The documents were put away. If Professor Rose had wanted to work on this matter further or had expected further shipments of the vaccine, he would have made a note to that effect on the documents. That, however, did not take place.
Professor Rose never inquired further regarding these filed documents and while I was working there no further documents arrived about this matter.
Q. And you were employed by him until the end of December 1943?
A. Yes.
Q. I continue now with my examination. Do you know anything about human being experiments with typhus?
A. No.
Q. Do you know anything about a conversation that Rose had in the Spring of 1943 regarding typhus, or several conversations?
A. No, with the exception of one between Professor Rose and Professor Gildemeister.
Q. Did Professor Rose have a conversation with Staatssekretaer Conti?
A. Professor Rose was asked to go on an official trip with Gildemeister and returned from this trip very upset, asked me to arrange for a conversation over the telephone between him and Conti, and then to arrange a date for a conversation with Professor Gildemeister.
Q. Please state this in detail, witness.
A. When he returned from his talk with Professor Gildemeister, he dictated to me a memorandum regarding his talks with Conti and Gildemeister. He was very excited at that time and I can still recall that Professor Rose, along with Professor Gildemeister, had seen typhus experiments on convicts condemned to death in Buchenwald. Rose characterized these experiments as completely useless and unethical to Conti, and that one could discover no more from them than from animal experiments. However, he did not succeed in inducing the Staatsekretaer to have such animal experiments undertaken. In the discussion with Professor Gildemeister there was hardly mention of these experiments. Professor Gildemeister complained to Rose that Professor Rose had acted contrary to discipline and against his orders and behind his back, when without his knowledge he went to have a conversation with Conti and told him that he was intervening in matters that did not concern him and which belonged within the sphere of work that pertained to Professor Gildemeister.
He should have asked Gildemeister to take part in the talk with Conti. I cannot recall further details today. The memo I mentioned was several pages long. I know also that Professor Rose was very earnest and excited and made no side remarks such as he often made when he was dictating. After concluding the dictation he warned me, which is another thing he seldom did, to observe strict silence to everyone, and immediately left the Institute without being seen or talking to his assistants, which is another thing that he did not often do. The conversation between Professor Gildemeister and Professor Rose must have led to serious altercations between the two men because from then on, whenever there were telephone conversations, Rose was very formal in his behavior. Up until then he had always addressed Professor Gildemeister as "Mr. Gildemeister" or "Esteemed Colleague", and now he used the address "Mr. President" and confined himself to the absolute minimum. Also his mode of expression became very circumspect and he avoided making any remark of a drastic nature to Professor Gildemeister, which previously he had often done in conversation.
Q. In your last answer you said that Rose was with Gildemeister in Buchenwald. The interpreter said Dachau.
A. Yes, it was Buchenwald, and not Dachau.
Q. Can you tell us how you saw Rose's work during the war being carried out?
A. In the beginning of the war Rose had militarily little to do. He simply took a few brief official journeys, did a great deal of work in the Institute, and was dressed almost always in civilian clothing.
In the Winter cf 1939-1940 and in the Autumn of 1940 Professor Rose resided in Russia for several months working on the transfer of Germans to the East. After his return his military work increased in scope. He set up a second office in the Air Ministry and there was a direct telephone line laid between the office at the Army Institute and the Air Inspectorate.
From 1941 on Professor Rose, because of his time being taken up with military matters, often did. not come to the Institute for weeks, even when he was in Berlin.He simply had the mail read to him over the phone, gave instructions by telephone and dictated urgent matters, and discussed technical matters with the assistants, whom I had to call to the phone.
Q. How then did you work as private secretary when Professor Rose was at the Medical Inspectorate and you were in the Robert Koch Institute?
A. As I told you, I had to attend to auxiliary scientific work and to getting extracts of a scientific nature, which I did in the library or in the office. I also discussed the current mail on the telephone and transmitted it when necessary. If something very pressing came up and Professor Rose was unable to come to the Institute, I went out to the Medical Inspectorate. Moreover, Professor Rose dictated to me usually in the evening in his apartment from 7 until 11, dictated his private mail, his scientific work, office correspondence, and sometimes military matters.
Q. How often did Rose come to the Institute after he had taken up his military activity?
A. That depended, sometimes two or three times a week. Sometimes for one or two months he didn't come at all and then there would be weeks when he appeared more frequently.
Q. At the end of 1943, why did you terminate your employment with Professor Rose?
A. Professor Rose was hardly in Berlin any more and the military office was removed elsewhere. I myself wanted to remain in Berlin and I did not want to work with Professor Gildemeister.
Q. Now, witness, another matter; did Professor Rose or one of his collaborators work on yellow fever?
A. No, as long, as I had anything to do with the department there was no work on yellow fever, Yellow fever vaccine was produced in the Robert Koch Institute, out only in the virus department.
Q. And who was in charge of this Virus department?
A. Professor Haagen and after he left, Processor Gildemeister.
Q. Now a few questions on the malaria problem; with whom did Professor Rose work, on the malaria question?
A. On one hand with the assistants in his department, also with Obermedizinalrat Dr. Sagel, who was director of a sanatorium at Arnsdorf near Dresden. This was in the course of collaboration, and when the postal service broke down at the end of tne war his assistants frequently went there. Professor Rose was also frequently in Arnsdorf near Dresden to discuss problems. From 1942 on he worked also with the Institute Eberswalde near Berlin. He had his own assistant from there come frequently to Berlin and reported to him or to the assistants on the work in Eberswalde. We also corresponded on the question of malaria with industrial firms Bayes in Leverkuseu and Elberfeld, but these were simply prophylactic means of combating malaria.
Q. Did Professor Rose have any malaria work with the Hamburg Tropical Institute on malaria?
A. No, he held lectures at the Hamburg Tropical Institute and was a member of the scientific senate of the Hamburg academy, and he supplied scientific articles to their papers. He was also a member of the Board of Directors of the Tropical Medicine Society in Hamburg, but regarding his own work he did not have correspondence with these gentlemen.
Q. Did Professor Rose have any correspondence with Dr. Schilling on malaria?
A. No, Dr. Schilling simply corresponded with the assistants on the malaria question.
Q. Did Professor Schilling receive any malaria material from Dr. Rose?
A. When Dr. Schilling set up his laboratory in Dachau, he wanted to visit Dr. Rose in the institute, but did not happen to ran into him as Dr. Rose was on an official journey. He then asked the technical assistant, Erna von Falkenhayn to give him anopheles eggs and strain mosquitoes for his work in Dachau. This the assistant did and when Professor Rose returned from his trip, Miss von Falkenhayn told him that Professor Schilling had been there and that she had sent him material to Dachau. Thereupon Professor Rose asked Miss von Falkenhayn not to make any future deliveries to Dr. Schilling, since he was not convinced that Dr. Schillings's research would be successful and he did not want to waste his valuable material for his useless attempts. I was struck at this time by the attitude on Dr. Rose's part, since the delivery and sending of such material was always taken care of in routine fashion by the assistants It was sent to hospitals and such places and was usually called to Dr. Rose's attention afterward.
Q. Then, if I have understood you correctly, the reason was that Professor Rose did no longer wish his material to be sent to Professor Schilling and the reason for this was that he did not approve of Schilling's research activities, or at least did not think they would be successful.
A. Yes, that was so. I was present once when he spoke with Miss von Falkonhayn and he said something to the affect: "Professor Schilling has had no reasonable success so far with his malaria experiments and he won't have any this time." His stock of mosquitoe strain had been greatly reduced during the war and he wanted them for his own work and for work from which one could expect some sort of scientifical success.
Q. Did you see any reports on Schilling's work in Dachau among. Dr. Rose's files?
A. No, there were none.
Q. You saw nothing in writing that had to do with Schilling's activities?
A. Once, Dr. Rose, on request of the Ministry of the Interior, drew up an extensive report on Professor Schilling' research work; I myself wrote this report. Professor Rose categorically repudiated that research work and recommended for economic and practical reasons that research work should no longer be supported by state funds in this work. This report was on a trip when the request for it came and he wont away on another trip right away, it seemed the matter was pressing. I, myself, took the document personally to the Ministry of the Interior.
Q. Do you know when this took place; in what year?
A. At the end of 1941.
Q. Was there mention in this report of work in concentration camps?
A. No and if there had been such mention it would certainly have occurred to me as at that time I had not heard of work in concentration camps and I would nave noticed it.
Q. When did you for the first time hear of experiments on human beings in concentration camps?
A. From newspaper reports, after the collapse.
Q. In other words, from Dr. Rose's conversation or in other ways you found out nothing about experiments in concentration camps?
A. No, with the one exception of the conversation between Conti and Gildemeister.
Q. One last question, witness; for what reason did you voluntarily appear as a witness for Professor Rose at this Trial?
A. At the beginning of this trial I found out through a notice in the Zeitung that Professor Rose was a co-defendant and your name was mentioned as that of his counsel. Then, on my own initiative, I wrote to you and placed myself at your disposal as a witness. I did so because, as Professor Rose's former private secretary, I felt I know so much about him and his work that I,held it to be impossible that Professor Rose should have anything to do with crimes against humanity or war crimes in any form or could have known of them.
Q. Mr. President, for the moment I have no further questions to this witness.
BY THE PRESIDENT:
Q. Witness, you stated that you first heard of experiments in the concentration camps from newspapers;
what newspapers do you refer to?
A. After the collapse I was in Berlin, the Berliner Tagesspeigel, I believe, was the first paper to mention it, then the Neue Zeitung had an article on the subject. I also saw something in the Swiss paper that somehow or other was sold in Berlin, but I cannot tell you what that paper was now.
Q. When was that and what time?
A. In 1946.
Q. Does any defense counsel have any questions to propound to this witness?
BY DR. FLEMMING: (Counsel for Defendant Mrugowsky.)
Q. Witness, in your direct examination, you stated that Professor Rose was very upset when he returned from his trip to Buchenwald and he commissioned you to arrange for a conference with Conti, he then dictated a memorandum to you about this conference with Conti; from this memorandum could it be seen what connection Conti had with the experiments in Buchenwald?
A. No.
Q. Can you tell us anything more about this conference between Dr. Rose and Conti as set down in this memorandum?
A. No, I can only remember that Conti had said that he could not entirely agree with Professor Rosa's argument, but that is so long ago that I cannot make any statements now under oath about it.
Q. No further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any further questions to the witness by any other defense counsel? There being none, the Prosecution may cross-examine.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Mrs. Block, when did you first enter the employ of Professor Rose, the day, the month and the year, please?
A. Between one and ton September 1939.
Q. When did you complete your employment with Professor Rose?
A. At the end of December 1943.
Q. Now you have outlined for the Tribunal the duties which you had while working as a private secretary to Professor Rose, at any time during the course of your duties, did you encounter any secret or top secret correspondence?
A. Never.
Q. If Professor Rose had received correspondence of a secret or top secret nature, would he have permitted you to handle said material?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. Even top secret material?
A. Yes.
Q. Well now you have stated, that Rose's work did not deal with the field of typhus research, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. You have further stated that the greater part of the work in the tropical disease department of which Rose was the Chief, that breeding activities from mosquitoes, flies and other insects were perhaps a major task?
A. Yes, that is so.
Q. You have stated that the various mosquitoes were handled by Rose at hospital and other research stations, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Well new in connection with these activities concerning Dr. Schilling, you have stated that Dr. Schilling was working at Dachau. How did you know he was at Dachau?
A. Professor Schilling came to the Robert Koch Institute one day, Professor Rose was not there but Miss Von Falkenhayn, who had previously worked with Professor Schilling, came over to my office and brought Professor Schilling along.
Professor Schilling said he would like to have anopheles eggs and mosquito eggs and then went into some detail saying he wanted to create a research institute at Dachau.
Q. Kindly tell this Tribunal the month and the year that professor Schilling visited the Robert Koch Institute to secure these mosquito eggs?
A. I believe it was 1941.
Q. 1941? Was Professor Schilling working at Dachau in 1941?
A. I seem to remember that he said that he had previously worked in Italy but that because of general difficulties he wanted to work there after in Germany, and that the Ministry of the Interior had offered him a place to work at Dachau?
Q. How many letters did Dr. Rose write Dr. Schilling in care of Dachau?
A. None at all.
Q. Are you certain?
A. I at any rate received none, none were dictated to me.
Q. Would it have been possible for Dr. Rose to write Dr. schilling at Dachau without having dictated the letter to you?
A. No, because there was no one else who could write for him.
Q. Did Dr. Rose over write letters himself without dictating them?
A. Well whether he did that or not I don't know, but I don't believe so.
Q. How you stated that Dr. Rose for considerable periods of time would be away from the Robert Koch Institute. Who would he dictate his letter to during that time?
A. Nobody, the mail filed up so far as the assistants could not take care of it and so far as I couldn't, and then if something seemed very pressing, I sent a letter to the person who had sent the letter to us saying that Professor Rose was on a trip and asked him what to do.
Q. Well now you think that Professor Schilling came to the Robert Koch Institute in l94l and secured those eggs for the malaria strain from one of the laboratory assistants, is that right?
A. Yes, Miss Von Falkenhayn.
Q. Did he over come back in 1942?
A. I don't know. I can only remember having soon Professor Schilling once in my life.
Q. Did you see any correspondence in the year 1942 with any one in the Robert Koch Institute concerning Schilling's work at Dachau?
A. No.
Q. Did you see any correspondence in the year 1943?
A. No.
Q. In other words, the only thing you over heard concerning Mr. Schilling's work at Dachau was upon his visit in the year 1941?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, concerning Professor Rose's trip to Copenhagen in what month in the year 1943 did Professor Rose journey to Copenhagen?
A. August.
Q. August, 1943. The purpose of his visit was to discuss the production of typhus vaccine, is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. He was sent to Copenhagen by General Schroiber, is that correct?
A. General Schroiber asked him, since he had good connections with foreign institutes. I believe to the Ipson Institute, to go there as a private person in order to got vaccine since we had too little of it, because we needed more vaccines than we could produce.
Q. What type of vaccines were they producing in Copenhagen, do you know?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Did you ever hear what type of vaccine they were producing? Was it from rabbits' lungs or mice lungs or from nice liver?
A. I think nice were involved but whether it was lungs or liver I don't know.
Q. Wasn't it common to use mice lungs to produce vaccines?
A. I don't know.
Q. How you stated that when Rose returned from his trip that he reported that the trip was to no avail; that the people in Copenhagen were unwilling to produce the vaccine as desired, therefore, Rose made a report, and he sent this report to three sources or three authorities, would you kindly tell the Tribunal again to whom professor Rose sent this report?
A. Goheimrat Otto at Frankfurt on the Main, to Leverkusen and to Professor Gildemeister as director of the typhus department and president of the institute.
Q. Would you repeat the second one again? I am sorry I did not understand?
A. Leverkusen or the Behring Works. Leverkusen is a locality.
Q. It was the Behring Works and then he sent a report to Gildemeister at the Robert Koch Institute and one to Goheimrat Otto and he reported no further?
A. That is right. I cannot remember that he reported anywhere else.
Q. He did not report to Professor Conti, did he?
A. I don't think so, but I am not sure today. I do not seem to recall Conti's name in this connection.
Q. Well now you stated that Rose brought back or later received some samples of this vaccine from Copenhagen, and that he transferred those samples to the same people to whom he sent a report, namely, the Behring Worke, the Robert Koch Institute, care of Gildemeister, and to Goheimrat Otto, is that what you wish to tell us?
A. Yes, I don't remember to day any longer, but Dr. Rose either brought samples with him or they were sent to him very shortly there after. However, they were only very small, only a few little test tubes, and he gave instructions that the samples should accompany the report.