A. Yes, during 1943. Then the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services made an official trip to Italy and, according to my knowledge, inspected installations of the Army and Air Force. Italy was a Wehrmacht District, the Supreme Commander was a Wehrmacht Commander, and the medical officer in charge, in accordance with that, had Wehrmacht functions.
Q. That is to say he was co-ordinated?
A. Yes, and the very same situation prevailed.
Q. Did Professor Handloser at any time inspect an institute of the Wehrmacht Branches?
A. No. According to my knowledge, no.
Q. Do you know the institutes of the Waffen-SS which dealth with research, for instance the Hygiene Institute of Prpfessor Mrugowsky?
A. I know none of the institutes of the Waffen-SS.
Q. Did you at any time her about the institute for Military Science and Research within the Ahnenerbe?
A. No, I never heard of that.
Q. This belonged to the General -SS. Did you know Professor Mrugowsky?
A. Yes.
Q. Where from?
A. He occasionally attended conferences where the experts of hygiene had to attend in order to deal with questions of troop hygiene.
Q. Do you know whether any questions of research, for instance typhus research, were discussed with him?
A. I cannot say that.
Q. Did you know Dr. Ding?
A. No. It is a name that is alien to me.
Q I am sure that you repeatedly spoke to Professor Handloser. During such conversations, be they official or private conversations, was at any time the name of Buchenwald mentioned?
A It was never mentioned during any such conversation or conversations.
Q were you at any time in a concentration camp?
A Before the capitulation never; only after the capitulation, as an inmate.
Q Do you know the agency of the Reich Research Council?
A. Yes, I know about that but I don't know any details about it.
Q Your agency chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, did they have an official contact with the Reich Research Council?
A No, we had no official contacts. On the contrary the Chief, Wehrmacht Medical Services, was of the opinion that he actually should have belonged to the Reich Research Council just as the civilian health leader belonged to it, but the efforts he made on that score were rejected.
Q Do you know Generalarzt Dr. Schreiber?
A Yes, I know him.
Q What position did he hold?
A He, at that time, was departmental chief in the Army Medical Inspectorate, department for science and research guidance. After that he became commander of educational group C within the Military Medical Academy, and approximately at the same time he was plenipotentiary of the Reich Research Council for the combat of epidemics.
Q As plenipotentiary of the Reich Research Council for the combat of epidemics, was he subordinated to Professor Handloser?
A No, he had correspondence with him under his own letterhead and used his own printed envelopes.
Q The agency Chief, Wehrmacht Medical Services, did this agency receive reports on research work and assignments?
A Yes, it is possible that we received copies of research assignments.
Q Do you know whether this was the case ever since the beginning; that is, 1942, or whether that only came into effect later?
AAccording to my recollection this came into effect a little later. I don't remember any definite subject, but I think starting from 1943 this may have come into effect.
Q What was your position as chief of staff of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A In the old official regulation it was laid down that I had to represent the chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services.
Q That is to say, you were the representative. Would you please describe the practical course of dealing with matters within your agency; mail that may have arrived which you had to distribute and which then went to Professor Handloser?
A The mail was delivered to the registration office. The ordinary mail was opened there and registered. Secret matters, top secret matters, were presented to me and opened by me. Then the mail was distributed to the various experts. Part of them were worked upon by cur little staff and the other part were worked upon by the experts on the armed forces branches. Then, whenever it was necessary discussions were held about these letters and everything was prepared to see that the important matters came to the signature of the chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services.
Q I am interested in establishing the following thing. Whenever mail came to you and to the departmental chiefs, what was actually presented to the chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services of that mail and who decided what was to be presented to him?
A Naturally only the most important things could be presented to the chief of Wehrmacht Medical. Services, and the departmental chiefs had the task to first present the important natters to me, and then I in turn decided what matters were to be presented to the chief personally.
Q How was the situation when Professor Handloser was not in Berlin, but somewhere outside?
A If there were urgent matters I made a telephonic report to him or he sometimes rang me up and commissioned me to deal with important tasks. There was a daily courier going back and forth so that the important letters could be sent out and sent back.
Less important matters, however, were kept in Berlin up to the time of his presence, were prepared so that he could then make a decision and sign his name. The so-called current matters were dealt with in the Army Medical Inspectorate or in cur little staff and were then signed by me by order.
Q Was Professor Handloser frequently in Berlin?
A No, he mostly stayed at the headquarters. Only occasionally did he come to Berlin for just a few days.
Q Witness, I submitted to you the affidavit of Professor Handloser which he submitted to the Tribunal about the working activity and the sphere of the work in the leadership of the Army and Wehrmacht, and I asked you to read the part which referred to the Wehrmacht Medical Services. I asked you to investigate it. So as not to lose myself in too great details, I should like to ask you whether you can say under your oath that the description of Professor Handloser which refers to the agency of the chief of Wehrmacht Medical Services is true and correct?
A I have read the statements with great care, and I can only confirm them.
Q Do you think that the matters which are subject bf this trial, matters which you know according to their contents, are important matters if they happened to be subject of a report or any letter which came into your agency?
A Yes, no doubt. Whenever any experiments were ordered and whenever any fatalities had occurred then it would have been an eminently important affair.
Q Could you say with certainty that such a report, such letters, never were presented?
A It was never presented to me.
Q Did you perhaps receive knowledge that a certain matter was sometimes dealt with by circumvention of your person and reported immediately to Dr. Handloser?
A No, that never came to my knowledge, and if that had happened, then I would have done something about it and acted very severely.
Q So basically you would have to know about decisions, reports and letters which were important enough so that they had to be presented to Professor Handloser?
A Yes, that was required of me. I never had the impression that Professor Handloser intentionally and knowingly did not inform me.
Q On the 1st of September 1944 a new settlement cf the agency chief of Wehrmacht Medical Services came about. What was the intention which lay behind the creation of this new agency?
A It was the difficulty cf the work. It made it appear necessary to create a clear relationship of superiority and to arrive at a general authority to issue orders.
Q Did the agency on their own initiative make suggestions about this new settlement of the matter?
A Yes, these suggestions were made by us. The conferences were very long and tedious and I think that the way we see it now constitutes the twelfth or thirteenth draft. These drafts had to be presented to the Wehrmacht branches, to the Waffen SS, to the Commissioner General, to the OKW, operational staff and to the Chief, OKW, and were also submitted to the chief of OKW.
Q What is before you now as the decree of 1944 including the official regulation, is it something that Professor Handloser strove for as chief, Wehrmacht Medical Services?
A No, unfortunately not.
Q What were the misgivings and the objections which led to a change?
A The Luftwaffe understanding cooperated. The SS made the old well known limitations with reference to their parts and units which were subordinated to the Wehrmacht, and since otherwise they were not concerned at all, was not interested in the further details. The army submitted a different draft, and the Navy made the strongest objections and did not want to allow the chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services any right cf superiority and as little as possible authority.
Q Did this situation, these rejecting attitudes or rather, were they expressed in the final text?
A Yes, whoever knows the story can well recognize these points. The clear military concepts cf superior and subordinate were left cut. The word subordination is not mentioned a single time. Rather, it is mentioned once. That is only with the medical -- with the Wehrmacht Chief of Medical Services personally; that is, his subordination under the Chief of OKW. In addition the expression technical authority is used, and furthermore, these technical authorities are limited to the medical chiefs but not to people who were subordinated to them. That is to say, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services could, for instance, issue an order to the Army Medical Inspector according to Figure 2-A but he couldn't issue an order to any army group physician or any lower eschelon because he is not mentioned under this authority cf issuing directives.
Q. You mean authority to issue technical orders in order to clarify that point?
A. Furthermore, the right of instruction was limited. The right to issue orders in emergency situation is mentioned in particular that it is not assumed as a matter of course as it would have been in a case of relationship of superiority. The reservation of the SS was added at the footnote an page 1 as it is cited down there.
Q. Well, would you please read it?
A. Yes, I am going to read it: in the sense of this regulation there belonged to the Wehrmacht, Army, Navy, Luftwaffe, the units of the Waffen-SS subordinate to the Wehrmacht and the units and organizations committed within the framework of the Wehrmacht. The rest contained in the official regulation is a program of future spheres of work which only gradually were to be introduced into the agency.
A. What was the intended extension of the functions as they are laid down in the text?
A. Certain progress was made. At first the position of the Wehrmacht Medical Services within the military rank was laid down and that by figure I it says there: he has the position of a departmental chief in disciplinary power of punishment according to Code No. 18 and all the authorities of the Commanding General. Thereby a difference was laid down as it prevailed in the case of the Army Medical Inspector who only had the disciplinary position of a Divisional Commander.
Furthermore, definite process was made in whatever is contained under II that is, to determine that the right of technical power to a given command was not determined yet. It was only a compromise. The right of information had orders in cases of emergency was laid down but limited.
It also noted that the right of appointing people in higher positions was not granted to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, and finally these fields of medical services were mentioned where such tasks were listed which concerned all the Wehrmacht branches and which could be settled by the Chief of the Wehrmacht medical Services.
Such a list was completed.
Q. Now the Tribunal, I am sure, is interested in what can be understood under the concept technical authority to issue orders.
A. According to my opinion, that has to be understood literally, quite literally. It is the right to issue orders in these fields of the Medical Service.
Q. Would you please clarify that point practically?
A. As far as the expression itself goes, this expression does net originate from your office. I think it was first used in the Wehrmacht Operational Staff in order to help the Navy. A technical superior would have seen a very clear concept, a concept which is used in the case of many official regulations, for instance, the Disciplinary Penal Code or the Armry Medical Regulation, Quarter Master Regulation of the Air Force. That is, this expression does not mean to convey or rather conveys less than the expression of technical superior. Has it been different, then this official regulation would not have to list various authorities which are quite a matter of course for a technical superior.
So one can only say that with reference to the medical fields which are listed in the official regulation, orders could be issued if we are concerned with matters of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, that is to say, such matters which concerned all three Wehrmacht branches.
Q. We previously discussed a question what the situation would be if the Chief of the Wehrmacht branches would not follow any such directive, and in order to clarify that point, I must ask what would the situation be if a branch of the Wehrmacht would refuse to subordinate itself to this order in technical matters?
A. The Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services could not on his own initiative and himself penalize this medical chief. If the Chief of the OKW was not the superior of the three Wehrmacht branches, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, as only a part of this agency, could just as little penalize any medical chief of any command of the Armed Forces Branch.
In the case of refusal of obeyence of an order, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services would have to report this medical chief to his immediate superior in order to cause a punishment, a punishment which would be because of the non-obeyence of a technical order. From this situation alone we can see how difficult this would have been in practice.
Q. Did any research institute of the Wehrmacht branches ever come to a subordination? In this Decree of 1944 you see a passage -- I think it is II -
A. Yes, I remember that research was mentioned, but I never came to a subordination of the research institutes.
Q. Did the relationship, the official relationship to the Medical Service of the Waffen-SS change at all through the Decree of '44?
A. No. It was always limited these units which were committed at the Front.
Q. How in practice was the relationship of the Medical Service of the Waffen-SS?
A. I already said that the Waffen-SS was not very interested, and in spite of a request did not give us any collaborators in our working staff. I remember one incident that the SS did not follow an order which requested them to list all the material at their disposal.
Q. In order to complete the picture, I should like to ask you whether the relationship to the research institutes and the relationship to the Waffen-SS changed in the year of 1944?
A. No, it did not change.
Q. Why not?
A. Because the units who were subordinated to the Wehrmacht in the Front had no institutes.
Q. Did the Decree of 1944 -- was it really effective up to the end of the war to its full extent?
A. No, not at all. When the working staff was built up, it took quite some considerable time. A few fields were taken over by the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, for instance, the medical welfare and care, the matter of voluntary nursing, the central dealing with medical supply of all kinds, partly medical matters concerned with the prisoner-of-war system, but that is something that we again lost at a later date because the prisoner-ofwar system went over from the OKW to the Reserve Army.
The further up-building was disturbed by the fact that the agencies with which we had to be in constant touch were evacuated from Berlin, and finally we ourselves had to evacuate our agency to Thuringia in February, 1945. The difficult lines of communication and the difficulties in telephoning people made any connection with these agencies completely impossible. The rest of the agency was very busy with trying to care for wounded and sick who always tried to stream towards the heart of Germany from its various corners, and for whom all the time now hospitals had to be created and searched for, and in addition to that, we had to care for the civilian population because all of Germany had because a war territory.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now recess until nine-thirty o'clock tomorrow morning.
(The Tribunal adjourned until 19 February 1947 at 0930 hours.)
Official transcript of the American Military Tribunal in the matter of the United States of America against Karl Brandt, et al, defendants, sitting at Nuernberg, Germany, on 19 February 1947, 0930, Justice Beals presiding.
THE MARSHAL: Persons in the courtroom will please find their seats. The Honorable, the Judges of Military Tribunal 1. Military Tribunal 1 is now in session. God save the United States of America and this honorable Tribunal. There will be order in the courtroom.
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Marshal, will you ascertain that the defendants are all present in the court.
THE MARSHAL: May it please your Honors, all defendants are present in the court.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the presence of all the defendants in court.
It appears to the Tribunal that Tribunal Number 2, which is now in session trying Case No. 2, desires the presence of the defendant Rudolf Brandt as a witness before that Tribunal this morning. The defendant Rudolf Brandt will be excused this morning at the opening of the morning recess and in view of the certificate filed by the orison physician yesterday defendant Brandt will be excused from further attendance before this Tribunal for the balance of this day.
Counsel may proceed with the examination of the witness on the stand.
DR. PAUL WUERFLER - Resumed DIRECT EXAMINATION (continued)
THE PRESIDENT: The witness on the stand is reminded that he is still under oath.
BY DR. NELTE:
Q. Witness, during your examination yesterday you answered the question in the negative which was to the effect that the agency of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services had authority to give orders with reference to the research system of the individual branches of the Wehrmacht a Waffen SS, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. In supplementation I have to ask you, Aid the office of the chief of Wehrmacht Medical Services have any official supervision?
A. No, not in accordance to that.
Q. Now, in this connection I must show you a. document which was submitted by the prosecution here yesterday. This is a letter coming from Robert Koch Institute on the 21st of January 1943. This Document NO 1318. In this letter it says regarding typhus vaccines for armed forces, "The Chief of the Medical Wehrmacht Services, according to the letter of the 11th of January of this year which I am attaching in copy, has approached the cities which are producing typhus vaccines and asked them not to send this vaccine to the individual branches of the Wehrmacht and so on, but only to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services or to his plenipotentiary." What is your attitude to this letter?
A. The letter that you just quoted from the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services is really a part taken out of a larger frame and it deals with central distribution of products. The material coordination was only possible when all the needs of the Wehrmacht branches were directed to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services. It was necessary that from this agency the necessary distribution had to result. In order to gain a survey about what was available any buying of quantity on the Part of the Wehrmacht branches had to be stopped. That is why the Ministry of Economics end the Ministry of Armament had to approach the industries which were producing medical equipment and had to issue a decree that such orders were only to be executed when they emanated from the Chief Medical Supply Office, the office which was working on these matters for us. All other orders had to be sent to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services for investigation and they did not have the authority to deliver upon them. In order to distribute the vaccines in a just manner, that is, according to the urgency and the need of the Wehrmacht branches, was really the purpose of the letter that you just mentioned.
Q. It can be seen from that it was one of the tasks of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services to distribute materials. That includes vaccines.
A. Yes.
Q. On the strength of that do you know the cities where productions came from, that is, the factories?
A. Yes, they were known to the Chief Medical Supply Office.
Q. Do you know whether among these suppliers, excepting private industry or army institutes, that is, Cracow, there were any SS institutes?
A. I know nothing of that.
Q. This right of distribution and the relationship of the suppliers to the Chief Medical Supply Office contained the authority to control the suppliers, that is to say, the factories?
A. No, we only had to check on the production, the amount of the production.
Q. I ask whether you, yourself, or representatives of yours were active in this work. For instance, I.G. Farben could send people there in order to control how they went about producing vaccines?
A. No, we had no right of control.
Q. So, I understand you correctly if I say that these measures of gaining the vaccines in order to distribute them justly is one of the typical cases which the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services had; namely, to distribute this vaccine mutually for all Wehrmacht branches?
A. Yes, this concept is quite correct.
Q. Does this manner of your activity relate at all to the research systems?
A. No, this was a measure of supply.
Q. With reference to a question which the prosecutor presented here yesterday during the cross examination, I have to ask you: The Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services as such, did he have any authority with reference to the installation of works for typhus vaccines?
A. Basically, no. Here we were also concerned with the question of the release of personnel and the urgency of getting material and these were the things that we were approached about by the firms. Whenever we had any personnel available among other medical personnel, we could, of course, release them and we could sponsor any urgency request on the part of the industries.
Q. Well, then, is it correct to say that you - that is, the Chief of Wehrmacht Medical Services - had no decision over the question when such a factory was to be erected, but that you only had to be listened to since medical service questions were touched upon?
A. He had no right of authority and he did not have to be heard under all circumstances. When the firms wished, they could do these things on their own initiative, but they needed our assistance and they wanted our assistance and we could sponsor their wishes.
Q. Could this procedure extend to institutes in the framework of the Wehrmacht branches?
A. That would have been a circumvention because the Wehrmacht brance were really independent.
They had their own contingent of material.
Q. In a special case the matter seems to have been different. It was laid down in a letter on the part of the Medical Inspectorate of the air for that in the case of an institute which belonged to this branch of the Chief the Wehrmacht Medical Services had to be heard. Did you ever hear of any such procedure?
A. I remember no concrete case.
Q. I am speaking about this special case.
A. No, I do not remember such an application. Of course, when the Wehrmacht needed our assistance, then, of course, they approached us.
Q. You mean, only that?
A. Yes, only that.
Q. Did you attend the meetings of the consulting physicians?
A. Yes, I attended them in 1942, in the spring of 1943, and the spring of 1944.
Q. In May 1943 a lecture was held by Dr. Ding with reference to typhus. Did you listen to this lecture?
A. No, I did not hear it and I do not know his name. I have no imagination about it whatsoever.
Q. During that speech an incident occurred. Professor Rose uttered so misgivings and I am asking you, do you know officially or personally, I mean during the recesses or during the evenings or whenever the participants gathered, that any such protest was made by Professor Rose?
A. Nothing ever became known to me about that protest.
Q. Do you know whether Professor Handloser directly received any report about that?
A. No, I know nothing about it.
Q. During that same meeting did you listen to the lecture of Professor Gebhardt and Fischer? It was a lecture about special experiments with reference to sulphanilamide.
A. I did not listen to that lecture because I was interested in lecture regarding psychiatry.
Q. Did you ever gain any knowledge official or unofficially of this lecture which attracted attention?
A. No, nothing is known to me of that.
Q. Didn't Professor Handloser speak to you after this lecture and discuss this matter with you?
A. No, that was not the case.
Q. Do you know whether from any side complaints were made with your agency about the contents of this lecture?
A. No, according to my knowledge no such complaints were made.
Q Do you still remember what the situation was in the Medical Inspectorate during the middle of May, that is, shortly before these lectures?
A. Yes, the situation was very tense. In January we had these losses Stalingrad and in April we had severe losses near Tunis. We could - I mean the Medical Service of the entire Wehrmacht considerable physicians were lost According to my recollection we lost 400 in Stalingrad and about 300-350 in Africa and we had great worry about getting substitutes for then. We had to take physicians away from the civilian sector if we wanted them.
Q. So that was a time of great worry for the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services?
A. Yes, no doubt.
Q. And, his time was taken up to a considerable degree in order to car* through measures which would lead to the dealing with these emergency situations. Were the manuscripts of the lectures shown to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services - the manuscripts of the lectures during these meeting?
A. No, that was not the case.
Q. Were they presented to him afterwards?
A. No, they were not presented to him afterwards.
Q. Who worked on these lectures?
A. That belonged to the Department of Science and Health at the Medical Inspectorate and they had to go to great efforts to get all these manuscript after the lectures were held.
Q. Now, one final question. For many years you were a collaborator of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services.
Although you were his subordinate, I think I can put the question to you in this connection and I think I have to put the question to you. What is your judgment of Professor Handloser? That is to say, whether from a medical or ethical point of view, do you think him capable of any bad action?
A. Doctor, you will understand that it is difficult for me to make any judgment in the presence of the public and in the presence of my superior but since it has to be I can only say the following: I know Professor Handloser is a warm person with deep feelings, a man who has great faith in his friend and has a very humane way of thinking. I know him as a faithful Catholic Christian who I think utterly incapable to have committed the crimes of which he is here charged. I know him as an educated, skillfully educated physician who always maintained a high level of sciences and who always had interest in the welfare of his sick and wounded, and also had a high ethical concept of his profession. He is an energetic upright soldier with a high sense of humor and duty. On the whole he is a man who because of his medical and humane values was respected by his medical officers, by civilian physicians, including the scientific representatives, and by all physicians abroad who knew him. His position as a high medical officer he gained because of his efficiency. He gained it during a clean military career and he does not have to thank this position to some political machinations.
DR. NELTE: I thank you. Mr. President, I have no further questions to put to this witness.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any cross examination of this witness on the part of any defense counsel?
DR. FLEMING: COUNSEL FOR THE Defendant, Mrugowsky.
BY DR. FLEMING:
Q. Witness, you stated yesterday that the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service kept his staff very small, intentionally small. Did the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service in his sphere of work give orders to the Army Medical Inspectorate when his staff had no expert far the questions which may have come up?
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. Whenever what occurred, to whom was such a representative responsible for the problems with which he had been commissioned? Was he responsible to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service from whom he received the order or was he responsible to his real chief, the Army Medical Inspector?
A. He was responsible to the man who gave him the order, that is, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, yes.
Q. Such a man would have to make reports. Were these reports sent to his own Chief, the Army Medical Inspector or were they sent to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A. The reports went to the Chief Staff of the Army Medical Inspectorate, to me as Chief of Staff of the Wehrmacht Medical Service.
DR. FLEMING: Thank you. I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Is there any further cross examination of this witness, on the art of any defense counsel? There being none, the Prosecution may cross examine the witness.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. HARDY:
Q. Witness, you have testified here on direct examination that the reason for the Fuehrer Decree of 1942 was to preserve personnel, material, and so forth. Now I ask you -
INTERPRETER: The witness hasn't heard your question.
BY MR. HARDY:
Q. I said, you have testified here on direct examination that the basis reason for the Fuehrer decree of 1942 was to preserve personnel and material?
A. May I ask you to repeat the question once more?
Q. During the course of your direct examination by defense counsel you have testified that the reason behind the issuance of the Fuehrer decree of 28 July 1942, was to preserve personnel and material by way of proper coordination Now, I ask you, isn't the utilization of material and personnel in the field of medical research a common problem of all branches of the Wehrmacht, which required a coordinated and planned direction?
A. In the decree of 1942, the official regulation of research was not mentioned at all in the tasks for the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. Consequently, we could not deal with it.
Q. Isn't it true, doctor, that the Wehrmacht had various research tasks being performed where personnel and material were being used in the course of this research work, whatever it may be, isn't it true, that the problem did exist of coordinating the work so that you would not have a duplication of effort and so that you could carry out the basic purpose of this decree, that is, to preserve personnel and material?
A. The Prosecutor is right in so far as such an aim would have been high desirable, and that is why in the new regulation of 1944, we included this subject in the official regulation.
Q. Now, you stated that the office if the Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht was quite small. Perhaps, it could not be concerned with coordinating medical research. Now, didn't Handloser have all facilities of the Army Medical Inspectorate at his disposal for that purpose, and didn't he in fact accomplish coordination of the Medical Research to the last degree through these meetings you referred to, of the consulting physicians at the Military Medical Academy?
A. At the meeting of the Military Medical Academy this was dealt with by the medical senate of the Army and by the scientific senate of the army, and the Inspectors of the other Wehrmacht branches were invited to these meeting but you cannot call it a regulation of the coordination of research.
Q. Well now Handloser did in fact have the facilities of the Army Medical Inspectorate at his disposal, did he not?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Then it would be incorrect to state that the facilities at his disposal as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services were small?
A. Would your repeat the last part of your question?
Q. I said it would be incorrect to state that the Chief of the Medical Services of the Wehrmacht had little or nothing to do with it, in so far as medical research is concerned, in as much as Handloser had all facilities of the Medical Inspectorate at his disposal?
A. He only had the installations of the army in his capacity as army medical inspector.
Q. The Army was the largest branch of the Wehrmacht, was it not?
A. Yes, it was the largest branch of the Wehrmacht.
Q. Now you said, Doctor, that the Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht - you have testified here, Doctor, that the Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht received research assignments from the branches of the Wehrmacht from 1943 on. Who directed that that procedure be followed? Did you hear my question.
A. I said yesterday that approximately starting from 1943, copies of the reports of the Wehrmacht branches about research assignments were sent to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service for his acknowledgment.
Q. Who directed that these reports be sent to the Office of the Chief of the Medical Service of the Wehrmacht?
A. This was done voluntarily without being asked for by the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service.
Q. Well, now, doctor, what was the purpose of Handloser's office received these reports of research work?
A. I said they were copies. The Luftwaffe, for instance, sent the or to the Department of Science and Research with the Commissioner General, and they probably told themselves that if we are going to report this to the Commissioner General, it maybe adviseable that the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service receive a copy too.