A. Something else is involved with regard to this document. This is a request to establish a new place of production and to obtain a large amount of personnel and material in order to establish new production facilities. I can only say with regard to this, that such a request has never reached my hands and I assume that somebody from the Luftwaffe, or perhaps Professor Rose, could give you more information about it because you have also seen from the document that no reply was ever received by the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. We were never so impolite that we did not give any answer for months to letters which were received. One can only say that this request referring to the establishment of such an institute or the extension of such an institute never reached my hands and that is why I never gave any reply.
Q. Well but the point is they had to get your permission to establish new facilities, didn't they?
A. It may only be in this case that all new constructions and all new facilities required the approval of the OKW and that I, in my capacity as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, was also included. In connection with this I want to state that I could not give any approval of that kind because I did not have any funds. I had to submit them to the OKW and obtain their approval.
Q. What about the production facilities at Buchenwald--they didn't start until 1943 -- I don't suppose you know anything about the production of vaccine there, do you?
A. No.
Q. Never heard of any vaccine produced by the Waffen-SS?
A. I have heard for the first time of a typhus vaccine produced by the Waffen-SS in the year 1945, when I was vaccinated in the prison camp at Bad Eibling with this vaccine.
Q. How do you explain your alleged ignorance of the Buchenwald experiments and vaccine production in the face of your critical interest with typhus problems and your personal control over typhus vaccine allocation?
A. I can only explain it to the fact that I did not know the name of Buchenwald at all, and if any vaccine by the Waffen-SS had reached my hands, or if I had ever heard of such a vaccine of the Waffen-SS, which is not impossible, then I would immediately have brought it into connection with the Hygienic Institute of the Waffen-SS. I have never entered this institute but in any case I knew of its existence.
Q. But General, in January 1943, the Robert Koch Institute recognizes an order from you that they are to quit allocating vaccines to any of the branches of the Wehrmacht and have to channel everything through you. Now do you mean to tell the Tribunal that the typhus vaccine production station of the Waffen-SS at Buchenwald could do what they wanted to do with their production -- you had no control over that and never heard of it -- is that right?
A. I can only say that if such an order, because of the delivery, was issued by the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, then this was only sent to a certain distribution and the Waffen-SS was also included in it. That probably was directed by the Chief of the Medical Service of the Waffen-SS, Jr. Genzken, because his letters were always kept very generally; if, and how long this vaccine was produced with the Waffen-SS, I cannot tell you. Perhaps Dr. Schmidt can give you more information about that because he was with the Medical Inspectorate. I myself have only discovered it for the first time in 1945.
Q. General, what possible interest could, the SS have in testing these egg-yolk vaccines on its own initiative in Buchenwald without your support as the Army Medical Inspector and the support of Conti as Secretary of State for Health?
A. The SS maintained its own field, as I have already previously described. The fact could not have remained hidden here that this sector worked completely by itself. Several documents give proof of the fact that requests were made for the establishment of a whole series of scientific research institutes and a whole number of approvals by agencies for that purpose. I have never found out anything about them. I have repeatedly stated that it was not possible for me to gain any insight into the character and the system and the intentions of the SS and therefore it is not surprising that this was also the case in that field.
I cannot say what the purpose of the SS was but I assume that one of the reasons was that they wanted to be independent and they wanted to be independent of any allocation through me so that I would not be able to say "You will get very little now, or nothing." That is one explanation. I cannot state anything further on the subject.
Q. Any SS troops using the Behring egg-yolk vaccine would be in the field under the jurisdiction of the Army Medical Inspectorate in medical natters, would they not?
A. The SS units at the front with regards to the medical service and, in this connection, which concerns the care for the men in combat, so the SS units were also vaccinated, and I am quite certain that at the beginning they were innoculated with the Weigl vaccine. I believe they were subsequently innoculated with the egg yolk vaccine but I cannot state that with certainty.
Q. How do you explain your alleged ignorance of the typhus experiments at Buchenwald in the face of the fact that Eier made a visit there, Schmidt made a visit there, there has been some testimony that lice were sent from the institute at Krakow, in the face of the fact that Ding made a report at the meeting of the Consulting Physicians in May 1943--how do you explain your ignorance of these matters? Did these men just fail to report all this to you?
A. With regard to Ding, I must repeat that I have not listened to his report and what I have heard of it, and what I have read, does not give me any information about where and how his experiments or his tests were carried out. With regard to the visits of Schmidt and Eier, I was completely surprised to see this entry and I cannot give you any information about it. However, I assume that it will be given by somebody else. Nobody talked to me about it and nobody received any orders from me.
Insofar as Buchenwald is concerned, I can say that I have heard the name mentioned for the first time after the capitulation.
MR. McHANEY: I have no further questions.
THE PRESIDENT: Any re-direct examination of this witness by defense counsel?
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. NELTE:
Q. Professor, Mr. McHaney has asked you about the report and the lecture which Dr. Holzloehner gave at the meeting of the Consulting Physicians in December 1942. It was one of numerous lectures in this field. Now I want to ask you once more if you know with certainty that you have heard this lecture by Dr. Holzloehner?
A. According to the entire situation I must answer this question in the affirmative because the lecture of Holzloehner took place amongst a whole series of lectures about freezing and this meeting took place already in winter. It was from the 30th of November until the 3rd of December, and for me it was the important or one of the most important problems, and therefore in my opening speech and also in the discussions, I have directed and appealed to them and have warned them that they were to do everything in order to avoid, in the course of the winter, that we should again get into such a situation as in the winter of 1941 or 42. For this reason, and because of the importance of the problem, I consider it certain that I have attended the lecture.
Q. Could it also be seen from the lecture that experiments were carried out on human beings?
A. I cannot remember the lecture exactly anymore, but when I look at the report then it shows what I have already previously stated, that research was being carried out on animals and on human beings, and to the participants who are informed to a certain extent there cannot have been any doubt, and perhaps this has been mentioned in the detailed lecture that Holzloehner has collected his experience in actual sea emergencies and that was at the Atlantic Coast.
Q. Therefore you say that the lecture had to convey the impression to the listener who knew Holzloehner that he had made his experiments on pilots who had fallen into the sea and who had been turned over to him f or treatment---
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, I don't think it is necessary to lead the witness quite that much. Now, he asked the witness a direct question and he gave him an answer which I think was understandable by all of us, and I think this is quite improper for him then to restate the matter the way he has done it and put words in the mouth of this witness that he didn't utter.
DR. NELTE: May it please the Tribunal, I had the impression that in the course of the interrogation by Hr. McHaney that this problem had not been explained as clearly as I would like to have it clarified for the understanding of the Tribunal -
THE PRESIDENT: Counsel, the Tribunal overrules the objection to the question. You may proceed.
Q. Mr. McHaney has shown you port of the testimony of the former Generaloberstabsarzt Hippe, which the latter gave in the course of the Milch trial. I do not have the record of its presentation nor the record of the testimony. As far as I can remember Generaloberstabsarzt Hippke stated that you had been his superior when he was medical inspector of the Luftwaffe; that is the time prior to the 1st of January 1944. In the decree of 1942 or the service regulation which was issued in connection with it, is the word "superior" contained with record to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A. Neither the word "superior" not any authority to issue orders is mentioned.
Q. In the time when you were Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service and when Hippke was Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe, was there any cause to awaken the impression with Dr. Hippke that he was your subordinate?
A. No, and I believe that if Hippke had been asked at the time, or if somebody had told him that I was his superior, then he would have refuted this loudly and clearly.
Q. The prosecution has handed to you Document 1490 -- may it please the Tribunal, I do not know the exact exhibit number. It is a letter which the Chief of the Army armament and Chief if the Reserve Army addressed to Reich Marshal Coering. It deals with a question of your entry into the council of the Reich Research Council, and the suggestion to admit Dr. Schreiber into the Reich Research Council. May it please the Tribunal, this document NO-1490is exhibit 450. The prosecution believes that the farmer Oberstabsarzt Dr. Schreiber had in a certain way been the liaison officer of the Army Medical Inspectorate to the Reich Research Council and that he had been suggested by you for this position; is that correct?
A. At this time I cannot exactly describe the incident anymore as it occurred at that time. In any case this was in accordance with a wish of the Commander-in-Chief of the Reserve Army, that the Wehrmacht should be represented in this Reich Research Council.
Q. What I want to know is, if the requests which are contained in the letter of 9 December 1942 were both disapproved?
A. Yes, both of them were disapproved.
Dr. Nelte: Mr. President, this is is shown by the letter of 21 October 1942 which was a also presented by the prosecution but which, however, has not been read.
Q. In the letter of the Chief of the General Wehrmacht Office to Professor Handloser, of 21 October 1942, the following is stated, and I quote a sentence: "The Reich Marshal told me he has disapproved a further extension of the Reich Research Council". And now I am asking you -- Dr. Schreiber, who, as is known was the Commissioner of the Reich Research Council for the combating of epidemics, was he suggested by you after this disapproval?
A. No, Schreiber came to me spontaneously and informed me that the offer had been made to him.
MR. MCHANEY: If the Tribunal please, I don't think this is tho proper time to argue the interpretation of documents, but I just want to state that the excerpt from the letter which has just been read by Dr. Nelte certainly constitutes no rejection on the part of the Reich Research Council to tho nomination of Schreiber by the Army Medical Inspectorate. The letter which I didn't read concerns itself only with the appointment of Handloser. It is a personal letter to Handloser stating that he has not been appointed to the presiding council of the Research Council as he wanted to be, and that's all it says. It makes no reference to Schreiber and it can't be tortured in the meaning that Schreiber and the other recommendations made by Froehm were turned down by Gooring.
DR. NELTE: Mr. President, I believe that I am in agreement with Mr. McHaney that I can leave the interpretation and judging of this letter to you. It is stated clearly and explicitly that the Reich Marshal fundamentally disapproved a further extension of the Reich Research Council.
Q Witness, the prosecution, has asked you the following question: Is not the collection of human beings and material for research purposes a task which was common to all branches of tho Wehrmacht? In the decree of 1942, personnel and material coordination is mentioned, and I am now asking you, did this personnel and material assignment of coordination also refer to the medical officers which were to be assigned research jobs?
A That is not specifically mentioned at any place and there has never been any special discussion on that subject.
Q I now want to ask you if, as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service, you might have wanted to, or if you were ordered to, engage in research, would it have been necessary for you that in our capacity as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service you should have had a department like with tho Wehrmacht Medical Inspector? Did you have such a department, for science and research?
A No, I had a man there who took care of the medical, scientific and research matters. I had such a man, but he had nothing whatsoever to do with research.
Q That is a question which I specifically wanted to know of you. After all, money is needed for research purposes. As chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service did you have any funds allotted for research?
A I did not have any money at all. Whenever something of that kind came up I had to turn to the GUI. I did not have any funds available for research at all, but the money was for the branches of the Wehrmacht.
Q With regard to the lecture of professor Dr. Gebhardt and Dr. Fischer the prosecution has stated the following -- I beg your pardon -- you have stated in connection with this, all the people who attended did not object specifically to the statements which were made by Professor Gebhardt and Dr. Fischer, at least nothing came to your knowledge about that subject.
Mr. McHaney has stated this fact can be interpreted in several ways, either as you want it, that those statements did not cause any specific interest, or as the prosecution has stated, that all the persons who were present did not object to them because they already accepted that fact as natural; that concentration camp inmates should be used for medical experiments.
Now, I am asking you the following question; is there not yet another possibility which shows your actual nonintervention and your failure to take any action?
A. Well, this could only be in my own person. That I did not understand in that way.
Q. Well, not only you but also the others. I now want to ask you in the formulation of the lecture or what Professor Gebhardt stated, could there be anything contained in it as far as the manner of the execution was concerned, which might show that you and the others -
A. That is what I have repeatedly stated here, that in my opinion the formulation and the description and the explanations were presented in such a manner that no reasons for objections existed.
Q. Therefore, there is the third possibility that something which might have diverted from the ordinary might have been presented, but that the manner in which it was presented conveyed the impression with the listeners that this was not irregular.
A. That is quite possible, yes.
Q. The Prosecutor has now mentioned bacteriological warfare once more, and he has reported a question which was also presented to Professor Brandt, the question of an order by Keitel. Now I want to state expressively the reference to Document 1309 which in itself was not presented to you leaves the necessity for a question open, namely, a question how the following sentence is to be interpreted. On page 1 the file mark states, and I quotes: "The Wehrmacht by request of General Field Marshal Keitel is not to participate in a responsible manner in the experiments because experiments would also be carried out on human beings."
Does this formulation at all show that an order was issued in that direction by Keitel?
A. No.
Q. Where did Kliewe work?
A. At Berlin at the Military Medical Academy.
Q. And where was his agency as the Blitzableiter specialist?
A. In the Armament Department 9.
Q. Therefore, what did he have to do with the Medical Inspectorate?
A. As medical officer, he, first of all, belonged to the Medical Inspectorate organizationally, and then he was a good general hygienist.
He was the head of an investigating office in Germany, and he was not fully occupied there, and he was also occupied with other matters.
Q. I only want to determine here who was his superior with regards to the work.
A. That was Weapons Office 9, the Armament Office 9.
Q. In the cross-examination the Document NO-155 has been handed to you. It was not presented to you, but it was used as a basis for your examination. The Prosecutor has mentioned the name of Professor Wirth, and he has stated that Dr. Wirth had suggested that experiments should be carried out on concentration camp inmates at Neuengammem, that you must have had knowledge of them.
I would like to read you the sentence which has given the reason for this question in Document 154: "A third series of experiments was discussed with the representative of the "lost" group according to the suggestion which Oberstarzt Dr. Loeb made on the occasion of the discussion with the Reich Commissioner on the 4th December, 1944." This is a sentence suitable to give course to the conclusion that Wirth said that this experimental series should be carried out at Neuengammem or at any other concentration camp.
A. No, he did not say that with any other word.
Q. Therefore, it is only a conclusion from the measures which President Konrich drew from the discussion on the fourth of December, 1944.
DR. NELTE: May it please the Tribunal, I shall have the Professor, Wirth, who is located in the prison here -- I shall give him an affidavit, and if the Prosecution wants to know more about the affidavit, then he can be available as a witness at any time.
Q. Now in conclusion I want to come to the typhus question which has occupied so much time in the interrogation by the Prosecution. I believe that we can be grateful that the Prosecution has presented the last four documents because they really give a certain clarification with regard to the question of the typhus vaccine production and distribution.
Is it correct for me to say that the big interest in the typhus question -- and I want to say generally -- consisted in the fact how can typhus be combatted effectively?
A. Yes, by all means.
Q. What is the most natural and the most important means of combatting them?
A. Delousing, that is, combatting the lice.
Q. When towards the end of 1941 the danger existed, did you also have typhus vaccines available?
A. There was the Eyer Vaccine, the Weigl Vaccine and also the chicken egg yolk vaccine.
Q. Wasn't there also a Giroud Vaccine?
A. I do not know if it existed at that time, but I assume that it may have existed then.
Q. Was egg yolk vaccine already produced at that time?
A. Yes.
Q. Now if you have effective vaccines in various types, will it be wrong to discuss the research problem for the time being instead of devoting time to the production of vaccines?
A. That is correct with one exception. In the case of the Weigl Vaccine which was excellent, the production could not be raised over a certain amount, and with the egg yolk vaccine we had difficulty in obtaining the eggs because we would have needed hundreds of thousands of eggs. Already we had to look for something which could be produced more easily.
Q. Does it vary from the urgent problem of trying to raise the production of vaccines?
A. No, that is the same thing.
Q. I assume that the documents which the Prosecution has presented confirm your statement. You have stated in the course of my direct examination: "I had to warn the people at home; I had to tell them that I could not furnish them any vaccine from Cracow."
A. That is stated there.
Q. And this shews what is also contained in these documents, that is, if you recognize the danger clearly, then you must produce more and then you intend to do this through the industry. I, therefore, see in these documents which have been submitted and which I assume you confirm completely -
A. Yes.
Q. -- and which you also recognize as correct today, that I have to ask you the questions now: your worry and your urging for an increase in the production of vaccine, does this mean the necessity of the knowledge now several or individual scientists actually occupied themselves in solving this problem?
A. It has nothing to do with each other.
Q. Now was it shewn by your letter and also from the document about the discussion of 29 December 1941 that on this day the typhus research problem was discussed?
A. No, the vaccines were discussed. That is the vaccine situation.
Q. You even claim at this time that a second conference took place on the 29th of December, 1941, in which you did not discuss anything with the circle of the people mentioned in the Ding diary?
A. Yes, I have stated that clearly.
DR. NELTE: Well, I do not have any additional questions. May it please the Tribunal, the witness, Wuerfler, can be called at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal has received a certificate from Captain C. J. Russell, Medical Corps, United States Army, stating that in his opinion it would be advisable that the Defendant, Rudolf Brandt, be excused from attendance in Court during the balance of this afternoon.
Defendant Rudolf Brandt will, therefore, be excused from attendance in Court for the balance of this afternoon. The Secretary-General will file the certificate received from Dr. Russell.
The Tribunal will now be in recess for a few minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session. May it please your Honors, Dr. Rudolf Brandt he availed himself of the excuse granted him and is absent for the remainder of the afternoon.
THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary General will note for the record the absence of the defendant Rudolf Brandt pursuant to an excuse. The defendant Handloser has been excused as a witness. The Marshall will summon the witness, Paul Wuerfler, in behalf of the defendant Handloser.
PAUL WUERFLER, a witness, took the stand and testified as follows:
JUDGE SEBRING: The witness will raise his right hand and be sworn, repeating after me:
I swear by God, the Almighty and Omniscient, that I will speak the pure truth and will withhold and all nothing.
(The witness repeated the oath.)
JUDGE SEBRING: You may be seated.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY DR. NELTE:
Q. Witness, would you please state your first and surname?
A. Paul Wuerfler.
Q. When and where were you born?
A. On the 4th of February 1895. Born in Wetzlar/Lahn (Wetzlar an der Lahn).
Q. Won't you please describe your educational career until the year of 1939?
A. I visited the secondary school and in 1913 in 1913 do my matriculation. I studied medicine in Goettingen and Berlin, and served as a soldier from August 1914. During the first World War I was a member of the Medical Corps and on the 31st cf January 1919 I was discharged as a Feldhilfsarzt. During the War I had my premedical examination and I passed. After the war I ended my studies and in 1929 male my State examination and had my medical production. At that time I was active as a practical physician n**r Weimar.
And, in 1925 began a communal area district plysician which office I hold for two years. Then I became the physician at the Institution, a psychiatrist at the Mental Institution at **********. I served for eight years, that is until 1935. I then voluntarily volunteered for re-entry into the Wehrmacht since the work in the psychiatric field became very difficult. I could not cope with the currents which at that time prevailed in the psychiatric field and I could not combine then will my medical conception. On 15 April 1935 I entered the Reichswehr. On the first of July cf the same your I was transferred to the Luftwaffe, that is to Koenigsberg in Prussi. I was a troops physician with an anti-aircraft unit. From that, on the first of October 1936, I was transferred to the Medical Inspectorate of the Air Force and I stayed them as an expert. This activity I continued for three years. After the Polish campaign I became air gau physician -- at first in Posen, since 15 cf July 1940 in Muenster. On the first of October 1941 I was transferred to tie Medical Inspectorate of the Air Force as Chief of Staff where I was active until the new agency, Wehrmacht Medical Service was created. From the first of September 1942 I was appointed chief of Staff with the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. As such I remained until the end of the War.
Q. Then you are tie first and only chief of Staff cf the Agency Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A. Yes. That was my position.
Q. What happened after the capitulation?
A. After the capitulation I was imprisoned and I stayed in imprisonment up to 12 Jane 1946. I was released from imprisonment by request of the Military Government at Duesseldorf.
Q. What is your activity today?
A. I am now an employee as Prison physician in the Penal Prisons at Cologne.
Q. In particular I want to ask you what the position of the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was and how the work and activity was carried out in this agency from the year of 1942 until the end of the war. I have shown you the decrees of 20 July 1942 and the decree of 1911, together with the official regulation, in order to ask you to refresh your memory. At first I should like you to answer the question, on the basis of the decree of 28 August 1942, do you know how this decree came about and I mean this decree of 1942?
A. The creation of the agency, Wehrmacht Medical Service, was caused by the difficulties of the winter of 1941 and 1912. In January, 1942, there were urgent demands from the Army which went to the Navy and Air Forces in order to obtain medical officers. We were mainly concerned with transport difficulties and welfare difficulties in winter.
Q. How was this cause of the creation expressed in the decree?
A. The basic thought in the decree was to use the available personnel and material and use them in a planned fashion. That is, at places where they were most urgently required.
Q. Is that what is called, in the decree, "the material and personnel coordination"?
A. Yes, that is right. Personnel that, for instance, was at one Wehrmacht branch was to be transferred to another Wehrmacht branch which needed them more urgently.
Q. What were the further tasks which were given to the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service?
A. All the medical tasks which occurred simultaneously with all Wehrmacht branches were to be worked upon by one central Agency and this was in order to save personnel.
Q. Will you please name occasions where one could speak of mutual matters concerning the entire armed forces? For instance, affairs of troop hygiene which occurred with ground troops and army troops and were the same in both cases?
A. Protective measures, malaria prophylaxis, productive vaccinations against the various epidemics and, finally, medical education.
Q. How do you understand the decree of 1942, bearing in mind the point of view of the creation of a new agency? Was it an agency which, at the moment of its origination, had a very definite sphere of effectiveness? That is to say, almost automatically came under the authority of the chief of the agency?
A. No, that wasn't the case at all. We were concerned with the question to build up this agency and only gradually to deal with one task after the other.
Q. Did the chief of this agency have a special authority which, in the military way, one can designate as an authority to issue commands?
A. No, he had no military authority to issue orders. In the official regulation, which is not available here, it was expressed that he had the right of directives?
A. The difference is teat a superior naturally has authority to issue orders. But you can only speak of the right of giving directives where there is rat a relationship of superior and subordinate and, therefore, no authority to issue commands.
Q. Will you please make it clear to the High Tribunal how this was exercised and practiced which enabled the Chief of the Medical Service to solve the problems which he had?
A. It was our task to made it clear to armed forces branches whatever was necessary to be done. They had to be convinced and won over so that they could cooperate and that could only be done by discussions and conferences.
Q. Now, if such a task could not be dealt with in this friendly manner, what could the Chief of the Medical Services do?
A. He, on his own initiative, could do nothing further but report the lack of success cf his efforts to the Chief of OKW and in this manner would have to bring about an issuance of an order.
Q. Did the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service have any official supervision about the Medical service of the Armed Forces branches?
A. No, he did not have that.
Q. Did ho have a right to gain information?
A. I cannot toll you exactly whether that was laid down in official regulations but we always assumed that as a matter of course.
Q. How was the relationship to the individual Wehrmacht branches that is, to the medical service of the Armed Forces branches?
A. The attitudes adopted ware not always the same. This can be understood by taking into consideration the various tendencies which prevailed among the Armed Forces branches in contrast to the tendency cf the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service. The Wehrmacht Branches endeavored to give up as little as possible of their rights, while the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service has the task to deal with the mutual tasks himself. Naturally, tensions arose from that situation, partly some peculiar situations arose. Maybe I could relate an episode to illustrates: New Year, 1943, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Services gave a directive to all the 3 Wehrmacht branches where, in a friendly manner and in friendly words, he thanked them for their cooperation up to the present time and asked all medical offices to continue working in order to help the wounded soldiers.
During the course of January we received a letter from the Supreme Commander of the Navy protesting, in polite words, tint the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services had thanked his Navy medical officers and wished them a good new year.
Q. What was the relationship to the Waffen-SS, that is, the medical service cf the Waffen-SS?
A. Just us little us the other Wehrmacht branches; the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Service was tic superior of the Waffen-SS. We were never concerned with the entire Waffen-SS. We were always concerned with those branches which were committed with the Wehrmacht, that is to say, fighting front troops.
Q. Shortly, how would you describe the relationship cf the Chief cf the Wehrmacht Medical Service to the Chiefs of the Medical Services cf the other Armed Forces Branches? Try to define it.
A. On the strength cf tie decree, the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services was elevated above the other Chiefs of the Medical Services. He had to represent the medical services of the entire 3 branches; he had to represent them in front cf the civilian health system and towards the medical services of abroad. Furthermore, he had the task to coordinate all mutual problems and deal with them in a unified and planned manner. For this task he had the right of giving directives.
Q. On the strength of the decree cf 1942 was the research system in the Wehrmacht branches and the Waffen-SS touched upon?
A. No.
2. Did you have a department for research in your agency?
A. No. The agency consisted, apart from the departmental chief and myself, cf one medical officer cf the Navy, one pharmacist of the Army, later a second pharmacist of the Air Force; then there was a registration clerk and a few typists.
Q. Did the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services have any means in order to exercise research work?
A. No. We had no means whatever. We could not expend anything on that.
Q. Was the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, this Professor Handloser, in his position as Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services, in an influential and strong position?
A. No. This is was only a beginning which had to be developed.
Q. Wherein lay the strength and the influence which Professor Handloser no doubt had?
A. The influence consisted in his position as Amy Medical Inspector, that is, as inspector of the strongest Wehrmacht branch.
Q. Do you know whether, in 1942, an official reputation was added to the decree?
A. Yes, there was an official regulation, but it is not attached here.
Q. We do not know it here up to this point but you, who for years after the official regulation was issued, had worked in that office, would perhaps be also to tell us something about it. Most of all we are interested in the question of research which I mentioned before. In that official regulation was there any mention made of research, research generally, or research with regard to the Wehrmacht branches?
A. In this official regulation, according to my recollection, there was no such mention name, because this print was only mentioned in the new official regulation.
Q. The new one?
A. Yes, the me of 1944.
Q. Did the Chief of the Wehrmacht Medical Services have a right of inspection after the official regulation of 1942?
A. No.
Q. Was any inspection ever carried out?