TRANSCRIPT OF RECORD OF FINANCIAL INTERROGATIONS OF WALTHER FUNK
[These interrogations were conducted by Major Hiram Gans, Financial Branch, G-5, SHAEF, on June 4, and by Mr. Clifford J. Hynning, Finance Division, U. S. Group CC (Germany)., and Lt. Herbert Dubois, Financial Branch, G-5, SHAEF, on June 25, and 26, 1945.]
INTERROGATION OF FUNK 4 June 1945
Q. What is your full name?
A. Walther Funk.
Q. Do you have any other names ? '
A. Immanuel is my middle name.
Q. What is your address?
A. Berlin Wannsee, Am Sandweider 17-18. Also a small farm in Bavaria where my wife later lived at Bergerhof near Bad Toelz. I have lived there lately. I have no other addresses. The house in Wannsee was an official residence.
Q. What positions have you held?
A. In the Nazi State or otherwise?
Q. Your last position?
A. President of the Reichsbank since 1939. Reich Economic Minister. Reich Director 1938.
Q. Have you had any other jobs since 1938?
A. No. '
Q. Before 1938 what positions did you have?
A. Press chief of the Reich Government; State Secretary in Propaganda Ministry. Held those 2 jobs since 1933.
Q. What kind of job did you have before 1933?
A. Since the middle of 1931 headed an Economic-Political Information Service and before that for 15 years was editor
478
2828—PS
in chief of the Berliner Boersen Zeitung. Headed the Economic Political Service at the request of German Industry and Economy and I joined the party in 1931.
Q. What was the name of the Information Service?
A. "Wirtschaftspolitischer Pressedienst" (Economic-political press service). It was mainly for leading people of leading offices. I was press chief in the office for only 7 months and then took over as party press chief. Then in the Propaganda Ministry I dealt with theaters, films and similar matters.
Q. Who asked you to become liaison in the Ministry of Economics?
A. A wide circle of industries, mainly coal and mining people and especially certain associations called Bergbauverein in Essen.
Q. What are the names of the people who asked you?
A. Albert Voegler, Vereinigte Stahl-werke — still with the same company. Knepper, Gelsenkirchner Bergwerksverdien.
Q. Was I.G. Farben on your list?
A. All mining companies.
Q. Name the individuals with whom you had contact.
A. Thyssen but did not deal with him personally.
Peter Kloeckner, had old mining industry.
Diehn.
Kalisyndikat.
Rosterg Wintershall.
Q. Was there anyone from the Rhein Metal?
A. No.
Q. What about Krupp?
A. He was a member but I had nothing to do with him personally.
Q. Was there anyone from the Alexander Mine?
A. I do not think so. "
Q. Did they approach you or did you have to go to them?
A. They approached me. When I was editor-in-chief of the Berlin paper, people approached me saying they wanted someone to exert economic and political influence in the new party which they assumed eventually would gain power in Germany but these people were in doubt as to the economic aims of the party and wanted them clarified. I was in touch with the party men at Munich, Gregor Strasser and later with Hitler.
479
2828—PS
Q. Have you travelled outside of Germany for the industries ?
A. No. .
Q. Did you get a contribution from the industries for the Nazi party ? .
A. Not directly but whenever I put these people in touch with Hitler—then there would be a conference with Hess or someone and they would organize collections for the party. It was only in some instances during the election in 1932 when the party was seriously financially embarrassed that they would contact me and I would obtain initial funds for the party from industries.
Q. How much?
A. In 3 or 4 cases where direct "intervention was sought, the total was approximately million marks.
Q. Were there any other funds or gifts made for the party from industries?
A. No, they were always for Hitler—they went through Hess.
Q. Did you get anything from Goering?
A. I had hardly any connection with him.
Q. Were any gifts made to Goering directly?
A. I do not know.
Q. You joined the party in 1931?
A. In the summer of 1931.
Q. What position did you hold in the party?
A. No particular position. I was regarded as economic adviser of the party. There was no particular office.
Q. Was this newspaper and news service profitable?
A. The real owner was Dr. Wagener who held some sort of economic position with the Nazi Party.
Q. Had you connections with Dr. Wagener before you became liaison with industry and the party?
A. Before I joined the paper was relatively small and since I had a well known name a good many industrialists started to subscribe.
Q. How many subscribers?
A. This was a very long time ago but I think there were approximately 60 but they paid very well.
Q. Did you furnish economic intelligence to them?
A. Furnished information on economics and politics—also economic articles. The whole thing lasted for about li/2 years.
Q. What was Dr. Wagener in the party?
A. I think he was head of the Political Economy Office but I am not certain. Later on he completely disappeared from the picture. By virtue of Dr. Wagener having that office
480
2828-PS
2828-PS
Dr. Wagener took part in the Nazism of Germany in industry by removing from industrial associations and chambers of commerce people who were not Nazis and replacing them with others who were Nazis.
Q. Is that how you got your appointment?
A. At that time I was in the Propaganda office and press chief.
Q. Was this your only source of income?
A. No other source of income. Since entering the State I have less money than before. I had a very high income as editor-in-chief of the paper.
Q. How much? - '
A. Regular salary of 36,000 marks. Also wrote for other papers and gave lectures. My total income was a little over
40,000 marks a year until 1931.
Q. As President of the Reichsbank did you control issuance of Reichsbank currency?
A. Yes, the Reichsbank would get written note from the Reich
" Finance Minister signed by Hitler instructing the Reichsbank to discount treasury bills up to a certain limit. The duty of the Reich Finance Minister was to satisfy the financial demands of the Reich and especially the Reich Armaments which were very high.
Q. Who asked for initial production of treasury bills? Was it the Ministry of Economics who decided how much money was necessary?
A. The Reich Ministry of Finance. Economics had nothing to do with it. Prior to my taking office another system was enforced which had been devised by Schacht. It inserted the so-called mefo into the financial apparatus whereby the bills were issued by the Mefo but when I took office I eliminated mefo which only served to conceal from the general public the financing methods used.
Q. Who had control of the manufacture of currency in Germany—the Reichsbank?
A. The Reichsbank.
Q. How many outstanding now?
A. I do not know7 what happened during the last 2 months. There were approximately 60 billion outstanding prior to that time.
Q. How many Rentenmarks?
A. Approximately 2 billion.
Q. Is this pretty close to being accurate?
A. Yes.
481
2828-PS
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Are there any papers or records which would indicate exactly?
The last exact records were with the Reichsbank either in Berlin or Weimar. After that they went to little communities between the various Reichsbank branches.
Where were the places? Where were they manufactured? Berlin—Reich Printing Works; Zwickau; Vienna; Witzen-hausen near Kassel. Later since there was a great scarcity of bills in southern Germany, I prepared an auxiliary Reichsbank note to be printed in Munich but it never came to pass as Munich was occupied.
Were there any other places?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
No.
What about Linz?
The place in Linz was making photostatic copies of certain denominations and certain serial numbers with a view to overcoming the emergency period caused by the scarcity of bills in Austria. These photostatic copies were to be recalled later when adequate supplies of bills were available. Did you issue the photostatic copies with the same number ? They all had the same number. This was necessary because no notes had been printed in southern Germany. The paper on which these were published was quite different from the regular money temporarily being issued. It was necessary to do this to pay wages.
Were they photostated or photoengraved ?
They were a regular photostatic copy. They just looked slightly different. Also they were printed on a different size paper. An announcement was published that these would be used as emergency money. The notes had full legal tender and were to be recalled later.
When were they published?
About the last 2 weeks before occupation.
What month?
The end of April.
In what cities?
All over Austria.
Who made them and where were they actually made?
I myself have not seen the notes. The photostats were made in printing shops. Made by the local Gau Economic Adviser.
Who had control of the quantity of money to be manufactured in the towns?
482
2828-PS
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q-A.
Q.
A.
Q-A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
The Reichsbank because the notes could be issued only by the Reichsbank in accordance with Reichsbank instructions. Who controlled the paper?
The Gau Economic Chamber in Linz and Salzburg.
Who controlled the sheets of this paper actually made?
The Gau Economic Chamber had adyisers in the plant. What about the Reichsbank?
The Reichsbank never had any direct supervision in the regular printing shops. The printers were pledged and it was not necessary to exercise any control.
Was there a special kind of paper used for this photostating? I do not know the procedure.
When treasury bills were discounted with the Reichsbank and you made to order notes to be printed for the quantity of bills discounted, how many treasury bills were issued in this way?
Approximately 250 billion in short termed treasury bills. Any other securities? '
Short term—Schatsanweisungen with maturity from 6 to 12 months.
Who issued them ?
Reich Minister of Finance sold through the Reichsbank. Were they sold to the public?
Sold to banks and large industrial concerns.
To insurance companies?
Yes, but not so much. Sold mainly to banks and armament firms.
About how much of this type of paper was issued ?
150 billions approximately. I am not certain and things may have changed during the last 2 months.
What else was issued ?
Long term paper.
How much issued ?
150 billions but the Reich Finance Minister would know better. He obtained the money while the Reichsbank was only the sales office.
About how much in gold would the Reichsbank have?
At what time ?
At any time.
Beginning in January 1945, 450 million Reichsmarks in gold.
February ?
483
2828-PS
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q-A.
Q.
A.
In February 1945 by. instructions of the Fuehrer the gold was moved to a mine in central Germany but this was captured by the American troops.
All of it?
There were smaller items in various Reichsbank branches. Most of the deposits with the Reichsbank branches were taken over by the'American Military Government. There is an exception of 10 tons of gold which was given to a Wehrmacht unit for safe keeping and protection. To date and according to the latest information I do not know whether or not it has been found because no one knows where the officers are that had the gold.
What unit had it?
It was taken by a unit of mountain troops. The mountain troops suggested taking the gold into the mountains because previously it had been hidden in a mine in Bavaria which was not suited. The officers have not been found so the gold cannot be traced. Lists of the gold in this connection were preserved at the Reichsbank. .
Where ?
In Munich.
Where is the list of all the gold?
In Berlin.
There are no lists any place else ?
The Foreign Exchange Director, Friedrich Wilhelm, has all records and if he moved out of Berlin he may have taken them along. He knows about all the small items spread out but they have all been taken by the American Army. The American officers interrogated him and told him where such stocks of gold were found.
All the gold with the exception of a few small lots were put in Merkers?
By far the biggest item, 400 million.
All the rest totaled 50 millions?
Yes.
How many deposits in balance?
6 or 7.
Where ?
They are all small items. Konstanz Reichsbank used to buy Swiss francs from Switzerland. At Lindau on Lake Konstanz in the Reichsbank we have small items in circulation. Any place else?
No.
484
2828-PS
Q. Did you decide where this gold should be distributed?
A. In the case of very large sums I made decisions but on smaller sums the Reichsbank did the directing.
Q. How much did Himmler get from you?
~ A. Himmler did not get anything from me.
Q. How much did Himmler get from the Reichsbank?
A. I do not believe he got anything from the Reichsbank.
Q. Did you get gold from Himmler?
A. Once the SD made a Verschlossenes Depot a deposit of which the Reichsbank had no knowledge of the contents.
. Q. On other occasions would the SS make any deposits?
A. I do not know.
Q. What about their deposits of gold?
A. Definitely not. I know of only one deposit by the SD and the contents is not known.
Q. Did the SS ever bring in deposits of rings, gold teeth or anything else?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure?
A. I do not know because jewelry is something -.the Reichsbank does not handle.
Q. Did you ever melt gold to bullion ?
A. No.
Q. Did you melt gold bars?
_ A. I am not familiar with this and had nothing to do with things of this sort. As President I was concerned only with questions of foreign exchange and deposits.
Q. Isn't gold a question of foreign exchange?
A. So far as the Reichsbank is concerned, everyone in Germany owning gold coin or foreign exchange surrendered it to the Reichsbank for Reichsmarks currency. This was completed before I took office. When I took office I found the gold there which was gradually consumed, then a sizeable receipt from Belgium and France. At first the Reichsbank refused to accept it because the property rights were not clearly defined.
Q. All this happened after 1938?
A. Yes, during the war.
Q. The gold you are talking about, wasn't that gotten from Vichy?
A. The Reichsbank received it from the Foreign Office.
Q. Where did the Foreign Office get it?
485
2828—PS
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
From the Vichy Government. The Foreign Office and the Four Years' Plan were the 2 governmental agencies concerned with the gold.
What'did they do with the gold?
The Reichsbank took it over on account of the law called "Kriegsleistungsgesetz."
Who wrote the law?
Minister of the Interior.
Who objected to your taking this gold?
I did.
Why did you object?
Because the ownership rights were not clear. It was the gold that the Belgium Government and Belgian Central Bank had deposited in France. s
Do you want us to believe that you had been a member of the party since 1931 and you did not want to receive this gold?
Yes, because it would have encouraged serious consequences with the Reichsbank in international relations with other central banks which were entirely in accord.
Do you know anything about deposits of jewels or metals made in the Reichsbank?
I know the Four Years' Plan had diamonds in custody at the Reichsbank not owned by the Reichsbank and with which the Reichsbank had nothing to do. They were left there as protection and later were placed at the disposal of a jeweler who worked on diamonds.
We will give you one more chance—have you any large deposits of gold in the Reichsbank in suitcases?
No. -Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Do you know Melmer?
I am hearing his name for the first time.
Did Melmer deposit any gold in the Reichsbank?
I am hearing his name for the first time.
Do you know Max Heileger?
I am hearing his name for the first time.
Who would handle the receiving of gold in the Reichsbank? The office working under the Director, F. Wilhelm.
Is he the only one that would know ?
His was the only office responsible for receiving and handling gold and foreign exchange.
Who had charge of withdrawals of gold from the Reichsbank?
The same office.
486
2828—PS
Q
A,
Q.
A,
Q
A.
Q.
A,
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
. Were you informed of withdrawals?
. Only very large items. I definitely did not hear names.
How large a sum was delivered to the Four Years' Plan?
, The Four Years' Plan could dispose of all gold held by the Reichsbank. In addition to that, there was a special gold reserve fund at their sole disposal and the Reichsbank could not touch it. This special fund included the 450 million marks in the fund that I mentioned earlier.
In 1938 you became President of the Reichsbank. How much gold did the Reich have? .
Not quite 500 million marks.
In 1944 how much gold? '
A considerable increase occurred only with the influx of Belgian gold—otherwise reduced through sales of gold to foreign countries.
How much did they have before?
Before receiving the Belgian gold approximately 500 million.
How much in Belgian gold?
400 million.
And in 1940 about 900 million?
Including the Belgian gold.
This includes the special gold fund of the Four Years' Plan? This does not include the special fund.
How big was the special fund?
*It is difficult to say off hand—somewhere between 150 and 200 million.
Then in 1941 how much gold was there?
I do not know. All I know is that the gold stock was gradually reduced at the end and left only the gold received from Belgium plus a small remainder. The bulk went to Rumania for the purchase of oil or wheat.
Who in Rumania?
The Rumanian National Bank.
Did they insist on payment in gold ?
Definitely, only against gold payments were we able to obtain wheat.
Weren't you occupying that country?
No.
Were troops there?
They had troops together with Reich troops just stationed there.
Was any gold sent to Sweden?
487
2828—PS
A. At the beginning of the war Sweden took some gold but has taken none lately.
Q. Was any gold sent to Switzerland?
A. Sales of gold were constantly' made.
Q. How much gold was sold?
A. I do not know the details but it would be a considerable amount.
Q. Can you give us a figure?
A. I definitely cannot give a figure. It could have been 100 million or more.
Q. Was any gold sent to South America?
A. I do not know of any gold transaction to South America. We did with Spain via Switzerland. Also sold gold to Portugal and smaller items to Hungary, Belgium and Czechoslovakia.
Q. Did you give any gold to any individuals in Germany?
A. No.
Q. Did you give any to the Four Years' Plan?
A. Not from us. The management could request from the Reichsbank from its stocks of gold for certain purposes. I do not know if it ever happened. I think the gold transactions by the Four Years' Plan were made via the Reichsbank.
Q. How was foreign exchange supplied in the normal way to somebody who needed it?
A. Request for a permit made with the department of the Reich Economic Ministry concerned with Foreign Trade and there it was decided upon. If the request was granted, the Reichsbank paid out the foreign exchange.
Q. Who was the head of this?
A. Dr. Kirchfeld and before him to the Under State Secretary von Jagwitz. The last named man was already there when I took the job in the Reich Economic Ministry.
Q. Why did von Jagwitz leave that position?
A. In the fall of 1943 the Reich Economic Ministry reorganized and all production matters were transferred to the Armament Ministry. In connection with the reorganization the personnel of the Reich Economic Ministry was greatly curtailed. The Secretary left and so did the under-secretary von Jagwitz. Since the purpose of the Reich Economic Ministry from then on was concerned mainly with the matter of disposition of goods, the head of the Reichgruppe Handel, Dr. Hayler, joined the Reich Economic Ministry.
2828-PS
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Was he the one who withdrew the gold from the Reiehs-bank?
No.
What is his first name?
Franz. _
Was he your secretary?
The Ministry did not have anyone at all at the end and settled everything with the State Secretary.
Who handled your personal affairs?
Dr. Schwedler. .
Who handled your personal check book?
Reichsbank Director Reinhardt.
What was his first name? '
He was chief of the President's office. First name was Johannes.
Did he take care of making out personal checks?
Yes.
Did you have any female secretaries?
I did not have a female personal secretary. There were several girls working in the internal office and also at the Ministry and Reichsbank.
The tax report was made out by whom?
I made them out.
Did you type them ?
No, I wrote them out by hand.
Did you keep a copy?
In Berlin there was a copy.
Did you keep a copy for yourself?
I had only my salary and allowance payable to all Ministers—no other income.
What was your salary?
60,000 annually as Reichsbank President and 48,000 annually which was the usual allowance payable to every minister.
Is this your only income?
Yes.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Did you get any payment from the party ?
I never held an office in the party.
Did you ever get any gifts from the party or people in the party ?
No, but I once received a donation from Hitler on my 50th birthday. Received a farm in Bavaria from the German industries and the money given by Hitler was given as an endowment to the Reichsbank.
489
2828—PS
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q-A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
How much?
Half million marks.
Was this from the Fuehrer?
Yes, it was in the form of an endowment to the Reichsbank for Reichsbank employees at war.
You were given the farm by the industries?
Yes, it was given with the permission of Hitler.
What industries?
Reich Economic Chamber—Apex organization of the entire industry.
How big was the farm ?
200 Morgen. 53 hectors.
Is this the farm where your wife lives?
She was there when the troops arrived and they told her to stay or to move to Bad Tolz so she moved to Bad Tolz. I was informed of this by American officers.
Where is the farm?
7 km from Bad Tolz—40 km from Munich.
Was it customary for all ministers to receive gifts from industries ?
No, this was an exception and with special permission because for 25 years I have been active as an economist, political economist.
Did you have any bank accounts?
In the Reichsbank at Berlin where I received my Reichsbank salary. Also in the Thyssen Bank.
Any other bank accounts?
A. No.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Did your wife have any accounts?
She had a small account of a few thousand marks in the Deutsche Bank for current expenses.
Have you any children?
No.
Is your wife living alone?
She is living with a niece of hers who is the wife of a German Army surgeon. Also living in the home is a small girl whom they adopted. She is the daughter of a Swedish woman who was a very good friend of my wife. This woman lived for many years in Paris. On account of the unstable conditions in Paris, we had taken the little girl over so to speak.
Does the woman still live in Paris?
I think so.
490
2828—PS
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
Do you have any insurance?
Yes, with Allianz.
What office?
Berlin.
Any other insurance?
No.
Do you have any property outside of Germany ?
No, except that as a rpember of the Board of the Bank for International Settlement, my Directors fees are deposited there as it is customary with the directors of that Bank. I do not know exactly what it is but it is approximately 15 to 20 thousand Swiss francs.
Have you ever sent any funds abroad to other people?
No. '
Have you ever sent anything to the mother of this daughter? No.
To anybody else?
No.
Have you ever lived abroad?
No, only when on official business.
When did you go on official business?
Went to Basle once a month to attend a board meeting in the Bank of International Settlement. Before the war I went to negotiate a loan in Turkey. Also went to Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Italy, Holland, Rumania, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, but never went while the territories were occupied. Did you ever go to Austria?
Before Anschluss visited Austria once and went for recreation.
Did you go there after Anschluss?
I have frequently been to Vienna, Klagenfurth, Graz, Linz, Salzburg.
Have you ever been to France?
Never after the occupation. In 1937 I went to Paris to conduct a German Cultural Act at the International Exposition. Since that time I have not visited Paris or any' other part of France.
Have you ever been to Holland or Belgium?
Not since the occupation.
Ever been to Spain?
Never.
Did you take care of remitting funds abroad for the Foreign Office?
491
2828-PS
A. No.
Q. Who did?
A. There was a special quota allowed and at its request the Foreign Office could make further deposits.
Q. Did the SS have such a fund?
A. There was a special allotment not to the SS but to the Secret Department of the SS.
Q. Who was head of that secret organization?
A. It was at first a military organization but was combined with the SD and I believe it was Obergruppenfuehrer Kal-tenbrunner. The head of the former army department was Canaris.
Q. What happened to him ?
A. I do not know.
Q. What happened to the other man?
A. I heard he was taken prisoner in the 7th Army area.
Q. Who was Schellenberg ?
A. He was the man who handled the foreign service quota for Himmler. I knew him casually but had nothing to do with him. ,
Q. Did you know of a hunchback man in Berlin who had to do with foreign exchange?
A. No.
Q. Were there any other places for the manufacture of foreign money ?
A. What do you mean?
Q. Money of other countries?
A. I know nothing.
Q. You have heard^about that before?
A. What kind of foreign money?
Q. Every kind, dollars, pounds, francs, etc.
A. I know nothing.
Q. Do you know anything about counterfeiting?
A. No.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
A.
How much foreign exchange did the Reichsbank have lately ? From 7 to 8 million marks worth of foreign funds.
Of all kinds?
I think they were mostly Swedish or Swiss. I do not know definitely.
Who dealt with them?
Wilhelm. The fund may have been more possibly up to 30 million because 7 million I now seem to recall may be 7
492
2828-PS
million dollars. The total amount of foreign exchange amounted to what comes to approximately 30 million marks.
Q. Were there any securities in foreign companies—stocks or bonds?
A. As far as I know they were owned by individuals in Germany and were surrendered on the basis of the Four Years' Plan. They could be sold abroad but I think this took place before I took office.
Q. Were they deposited abroad ?
A. Yes.
Q. What procedure? '
A. Individual owners got Reichsmark equivalent—Reichsbank got the dollars.
Q. These funds were deposited in the Reichsbank in what account? „
A. The foreign exchange account was credited. .
Q. Did you have several Devisen accounts?
A. They had a foreign exchange department which kept foreign exchange accounts.
Q. Were these property of the Reich or the Reichsbank?
A. The Reichsbank.
Q. Then if the Reichsbank made foreign exchange available to the Four Years' Plan, they would owe the Reichsbank for foreign exchange?
A. They paid. The Reichsbank sold foreign exchange only against money.
Q. How could a Minister traveling abroad get foreign exchange ?
A. Make request and then was paid either foreign exchange or cash credit.
Q. What about fine art purchases abroad—would you provide foreign exchange?
A. If the Reich leader Bormann requested lira for something the request was made subject to my examination. He usually got it and the money could have been used to purchase objects of art.
Q. Was the same true of Goering?
A. Not in his case because he already had foreign exchange funds. If the Four Years' Plan notified them it requested foreign exchange and put in the equivalent in Reichsmarks, the foreign exchange had to be supplied but in every case a permit was needed from the foreign exchange branch of the Reich Economics Minister because otherwise the Reichsbank made no payment.
€93258---46—32
493
2828-PS
Q. Do you know of any foreign exchange furnished to Goer-ing?
A. No, it was issued by the office concerned.
26 June 1945 (Evening)
Q. It is reported that most Nazi leaders generally have very substantial accounts abroad. What can you tell us on that subject ?
A. Nothing.
Q. When did you realize that Germany was going to lose the war?
A. It is very difficult.to come to the conclusion that one's country would lose the war but I began to doubt seriously Germany could win the war as soon as America entered the war. In the summer of 1943, I had many discussions with Hitler and I told Hitler about the production of the United States, but Hitler cut me short and said all that was bluff.
Q. Did you have any doubts before the summer of 1943?
A. During the time of big military victories I never believed in final victory, but I always thought that on a basis of those successes there would be negotiation for a final settlement.
Q. When did Germany's industrialists begin to doubt the outcome of the war?
A. In general the people were very careful not to say anything about that since it was very dangerous, but friends I had known for 25 years in economics began to have their doubts since America entered the war.
Q. Who were they? _ -A: Voegler in Vereinigte Stahlwerke. When America entered the war and we were threatened I talked to Schacht about it.
Q. Would Schacht make a good Reichsbank president?
A. I can say yes with very good conscience. I have known him for over 25 years and have always held him in great esteem.
. I also know that Schacht never said anything bad about me, even though he knew that I was not a specialist.
Q. What were the industries which you represented in your negotiations with the Nazi Party in 1931?
A. Represented is not the word. It would be better to say, which circle of industrial people urged me to enter the Nazi Party. Especially those from the mining industry Knepper in the coal industry. Kellerman, Voegler, Thengelmann, Liehm, Rosterg, also some businessman from banking con-
494
2828-PS
cingents such as Fisher, Reinhardt, from insurance companies Schmidt, Hilgard, Winterfeld, (Siemens), Poensgen (United Steel Works), Duisberg (I. G. Farben), Kastl, Herle (Reichs Association of Industry).
Q. Who, besides you and Schacht were negotiating with industry for support of the Nazi Party prior to 1933 ?
A. Secretary of State Keppler. He worked in the Cologne area with Sehroeder. Heinrichbauer in the Ruhr industry (Essen). That's all.
Q. What form of cooperation did the business men take? Did they give you money, advertising or what?
A. As all other parties, the Nazi Party was supported with money by the industrialists. In contrast to other parties, I don't think that it was much more than a couple of million.
Q.' About 1933 we have been informed that certain industrialists attended a meeting in the home of Goering before the election in March. Do you know anything about this?
A. I was at the meeting. Money was not demanded by Goering but by Schacht. Hitler left the room, then Schacht made a speech asking for money for the election. I was only there as an impartial observer, since I was friendly with the industrialists.
Q. Was this the first meeting of this kind that you attended? A. Concerning money, this was the first. .
Q. Who was present when Schacht made the speech ?
A. Kauert, the nephew of Kildorf, Tengelmann, Winterfeld, Schnitzler (I.G. Farben) and quite a big circle that I don't remember very well.
Q. How many such meetings were there in 1933 ?
A. I know only about this one.
Q. Have you attended any other meetings at any later time? A. There was no other one that I know of.
Q. When you said that devisen and gold in Germany were 500 million, what price did you fix on the gold per kilogram?
A. 3,000 marks, the regular price per kilo.
Q. What value did you place on the mark in giving us figures on Germany's foreign exchange1?
A. The official price—2.25 per dollar.
495