JUDGE SEBRING: What preliminary proof has been offered to this Tribunal that Document 910, purportedly signed by I. Bauer, is in truth and in fact the statement of I. Bauer?
MR. MCHANEY: Well, Your Honor, there is no proof of that at all, and I submit that there would be very little more proof of it if we add an attestation to the bottom of them. It would normally be given by a Notary public in Austria, about which, of course, this Tribunal and myself would have no knowledge at all, so unless he attached some certificate of some sort proving who he was, I would assume that we would be no further along even if there were an attestation on it.
JUDGE SEEDING: What preliminary roof is there that this in face was a statement taken by the police of Vienna?
MR. MCHANEY: The only thing that we would call proof on that would be the certificate that is attached to the original document now before the Court, certifying that it was taken from the file of the police department in Vienna; through the CIC detachment in Austria, in Vienna, we secured two files from the Austrian police force. We have the complete files. From those we removed these three statements.
JUDGE SEEDING: Do you state now that you have those files in your possession officially?
MR. MCHANEY: Indeed we do. They were sent to us by the CIC in Vienna.
JUDGE SEBRING: They are now in the possession of the Prosecution?
MR. MCHANEY: Sir?
JUDGE SEBRING: They are now in the possession of the Prosecution?
MR. MCHANEY: They are. I understand that the Vienna police have requested that they be returned. I do not think they have been returned.
JUDGE SEBRING: Could you produce them before the Tribunal?
MR. MCHANEY: I think we could, Your Honor.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will reserve its ruling until any such record has been produced before the Tribunal.
MR. MCHANEY: It is now just a few minutes before the noon adjournment, and I would like to raise only one other point that the Tribunal may wish to rule upon. 493 We now have in the Number jail a man by the name of Walter Neff, and the Tribunal probably has heard mention of his name in connection with some of the documents, particularly in connection with the high altitude and freezing experiments.
Walter Neff was first a prison assistant to Dr. Rascher and was in September 1942 pardoned by Heinrich Himmler and eventually put in a police reserve unit. We think that it would be desirable for the Tribunal to hear the testimony of Walter Neff in connection with the experiments of which he has knowledge in Dachau.
The Prosecution has duly served notice of the calling of Walter Neff on the Defense Counsel on last Saturday, about 12 o'clock. The Prosecution, however, is reluctant to call Walter Neff as its own witness. The reason we feel that way is because Neff may very well be indicted and tried in this courthouse for his participation in the experiments at Dachau, and we would not wish to be bound by what he might testify to in this Court, particularly with respect to what he might have to say about his own participation in those experiments.
On the other hand, he has more knowledge about what went on in Dachau, I think, than any other living man, and I think it might be very desirable for the Tribunal to hear what he has to say. I request, therefore, that Neff be called as a Court witness; that is, the witness of the Tribunal, and in that way the Prosecution would be free to examine him to any extent that might be necessary and also, if necessary, to impeach him? but, even more important, if he is later tried, we would not be in the position of having relied on his testimony before this Tribunal and then proceed to try him and perhaps submit proof at variance with what he had to say here, especially with respect to himself. I would ask the Tribunal to make a ruling on that.
I do not know when it would be convenient for us to call Neff--possibly late today or sometime this week. In any event, we have four Polish witnesses in Nurnberg now. We have two witnesses from Strassbourg. I would like for them to be able to testify this week so they would not have to stay in Nurnberg over the recess.
It might be that we would delay Neff's testimony, possibly until even after Christmas.
JUDGE SEBRING: Would it be your purpose, Mr. McHaney, in the event this witness was called to the stand and was required to testify, to use such testimony as might be elicited from the witness stand against the witness Neff in a subsequent prosecution?
MR. MCHANEY: Well, that does not concern me quite so much as the possibility that he will take a defensive attitude as to his own participation in these experiments. I think that at that point his testimony may come into doubt. I think it would be fair if he were warned before he testified that anything he might say here could be used against him. It is just difficult to foresee what we might want to do with respect to his testimony at a later date.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will now recess until 1:30.
(A recess was taken until 13:30 hours.)
AFTERNOON SESSION (The hearing reconvened at 1330 hours, 16 December 1946)
THE MARSHAL: The Tribunal is again in session.
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, we were discussing, before the luncheon recess, the admission of documents Nos. NO-910, 911 and 912. I am prepared now to submit, for the inspection of the Tribunal, the files sent us by the police in Vienna, and I have marked in these files the places at which the original affidavits appear. If these affidavits can be admitted provisionally at this time, the Prosecution will endeavor to secure, from the Chief of Police or the official in charge of the Vienna police, an affidavit giving the circumstances under which these statements were obtained.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal will examine the files you have just passed up.
The Tribunal is of the opinion that these documents may be received in evidence subject to some later proof of the authenticity of the documents be exhibit of proof from some official in Vienna. In view of that ruling, does any of the Defense Counsel desire to be heard in regard to the provisional admission of these documents?
DR. FRITZ SAUTER (Counsel for defendant Ruff): If it please the Tribunal I should like to ask that the name "affidavit" should be corrected. We are here concerned, according to what the Prosecution has said so far, with extracts from a police interrogation and we are not concerned with an affidavit I therefore ask that the Defense be given the possibility to examine the documents in order to enable them to test the authenticity and correctness of the statements set forth therein.
MR. McHANEY: I am not sure that I understood all the remarks made by the Defense Counsel. We shall, of course, be quite glad to afford him the opportunity to inspect the statements in the original. As to whether they should be called affidavits or reports, I do not see that is a matter great materiality. They are not called anything in the document book itself They are listed as affidavits in the index, but, of course, that is not a part of the record of these proceedings.
But we shall be glad to let him see the original reports.
THE PRESIDENT: As far as Exhibits 137 and 138 are concerned, they are simply what purports to be copies of signed statements made by certain persons whose names are signed to them. The last exhibit contains some sort of a copy of the certification that was taken before some officer. I would suggest that the matter be held in abeyance and the defendant's counsel be permitted to examine the records you have.
At the same time see what you can do toward supplementing these records unless the present records before the Tribunal are satisfactory to the defendant's counsel.
MR. McHANEY: Well, do you suggest then that we do not now offer these as exhibits?
THE PRESIDENT: I suggest the statements be offered at this time; that their admission in evidence be not ruled upon until defendant's counsel has had a chance to examine the documents which are now presented by the prosecution.
MR. McHANEY: For purposes of the record, would it be permissible for Mr. Hardy to offer these and read them into the record at this time and then have the formal ruling, perhaps tomorrow? Of course we won't be able to secure all affidavits from the Vienna police that soon.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, is it your purpose in making that suggestion simply to have a consecutive record?
MR. McHANEY: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: I think we might be allowed to read them in the record, subject to objection and later ruling of the court, whether they should remain in the record or whether they should be stricken from the record.
MR. HARDY: We will all turn to page 25 of Your Honor's document book. This is NO-910, which is offered as Prosecution Exhibit No. 138, provisional This is entitled "Ignaz Bauer, Wahringerstrasse, 162, born on 2 June 1908, interned in the Dachau Concentration Camp from June 1944 to June 1945, Prison #73059, Vienna, 16 March 1946."
Entitled "REPORT, Experiments of the Luftwaffe performed under the direction of the academic lecturer Dr. BEIGLBOCK in the Dachau Prisoners' Hospital Barracks in Summer 1944."
"In summer 1944, shortly after my transfer to Dachau from a French prison I worked in the infirmary of the Light Station where I did physical therapy and made electrocardiograms.
"I think that about the end of July a sick-room for experimental purposes was made available to the Luftwaffe.
Several series of experiments were carried out forcibly, each one on about 15 gypsies. There experiments were carried out in such a way that for 4 to 6 days those people did not get anything to drink or to eat except some saltwater (seawater).
"From the second experimental series on, I had, apart from some electrocardiogram, to test the electric excitability of muscles and nerves the patients and, therefore, had the opportunity to watch part of what was happening and to draw my own conclusions.
"The purpose of these experiments was:
"1. To find out how long it takes until a healthy human specimen without water and food, who at most is given some seawater, will fall in agony.
"2. to study thoroughly the symptoms of dying of hunger and of thirst.
"3. to test the effects of a serum, the composition for which is unknown to me, on the experimental subjects who were already dying.
"In the course of those hunger and thirst experiments, the patients were subjected to numerous tests, among others daily bloodletting and liver punctures were made. This was repeated frequently.
"Symptoms of death by hunger and thirst which were also perceptible to the layman were:
"Visible deterioration of the patients, nervousness, agitation which, some cases, mounted to the point of madness. (The raving people were tied to their beds.) Some of the patients showed signed of apathy and unconsciousness, In many instances, weakness of the heart could be observed.
"Subjectively the patients suffered from gnawing hunger and, above all from terrible thirst, which, through the drinking of waltwater, became even more painful. The thirst was so terrible that some patients did not hesitate to drink dirty water used for washing the floor. I saw one of these poor *** falling on his knees, begging in vain for water. Doctor Beigelbock was pity, One youth, who succeeded in getting some water to drink, was bound to his b* for punishment (whether by Beigelbock or another, I unfortunately do not now know; in any case, Beigelbock, as chief of this division, was responsible)."To all these bodily torments was aided the constant fear of death.
For they know that in other experiments at the real research station, the sadistic pseudoscientific curiosity of the SS had demanded constant sacrifice of lives. For this reason they all feared the same fate.
"When the patients lay, one by one, at the point of death, the aforementioned serum was injected, whereupon they recovered. But whether they be came completely well again after all those bodily sufferings and mental tortures, I do not know, for I did not get to see these people any more. It is true that it is not known to me whether, in the course of events, lasting injuries or deaths occurred, but I consider this quite possible. To these enfeebled people, each "transport", each hard labor meant sure death, even though they received supplementary nourishment two or three days before and after the experiments. Everyone, including Mr. Beigelbock, was aware of the fact that the nourishment in the camp was absolutely insufficient, that the t** and tempo of the work were murder us, and that the hygenic conditions and the conditions in the dormitories were beyond description.
"Were these experiments so important and so valuable for mankind in general that one was permitted to place human life at stake? Aside from the fact that one is not permitted to make harmful experiments on human beings against their will, as was done here, these experiments served only the waraims of the German Luftwaffe.
"Besides this, these experiments could have been carried out just as w** if animals had been used for the purpose. The findings would perhaps have b** even more accurate, but to these unscupulous representations of the master r** the "sub-humans" in the concentration camps were cheaper and more worthless than guinea pigs or dogs.
"I would only like to add that one day I met Professor Eppinger in the infirmary in Dachau; he came from the direction of the aviation experiment station, where he saw to it that he was well informed by his pupil and assistant, Beigelbock, about the status of his experiments."
Signed "I. Bau** We now turn to document NO-911, which is Prosecution Exhibit 139.
This is a statement of Joseph Tschofenig, Miesstaler Street 23, Klagenfurt, Austria.
"Klagenfurt, 7 February 1946.
"Questioned with regard to the occurrences at the Luftwaffe Experiment tion Station of Dachau Concentration Camp, under the direction of Stabarzt Dr. BEIGELBOCK, I make the following assertions:
"I can no longer establish the exact date, but during the summer of 1944 the above-named carried out experiments in which a large number of prisoners had to drink sea water in order to determine how long they could stand this. Previously there had already been a Luftwaffe Experimentation Station at Dachau, which was headed by the Munich doctor, Dr. RASCHER. Innumerable deaths resulted from these experiments. It was one of the most feared experimentation stations in the camp. In 1944, a change in the direction of the experimentation station was going on; Dr. PLOETTNER, an SS doctor who had formerly been active in the Malaria Station, became Dr. RASCHER's successor. A number of highly placed persons visited this station among others the Reich Chief of Physicians CONTI, Reichsfuehrer SS HIMMLER, and, in 1944, the Vienna University Professor EFFINGER, whose name was kept secret but who was recognized by a Viennese medical student by the name of LEBERSDORGER who was a prisoner there. EFFINGER could not help talking with him, tried to convince him of the high purpose of National Socialism and expressed surprise that he was to be found among these criminals. EFFINGER locked the experimentation station over and an agreement was reached with Dr. PLOETNER to open a new experimentation station. After the Professor's departure orders were soon received to make room in the prisoners' infirmary for the new station and arrangements were made that these experiments could begin shortly. 60 gypsies, brought from Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp especially for this purpose, were selected for these experiments. Prof. BEIGELBOCK came with a staff of three Luftwaffe assistants, and the experiments began.
As far as I knew in various methods; starvation diets to begin with, sea water and salt diets, salt injections, and so on. The tortures led to enfeebling of the body which resulted in loss of consciousness and, as far as I know, in one death.
"Even if occasionally the diet was improved, the people couldn't eat it. Some of the experimental subjects had cramps and manic attacks. BEIGELBOCK delivered these so-called troublemakes to the SS, which treated them in the manner customary in the camp. Through these measures of force he was successful, in that the experimental subjects actually drank the salt water. I was known that experimental subjects hurled themselves on the floor rags used by the hospital attendants and sucked the dirty water out of them and tried in every conceivable manner to secure potable water. As in all the experimentation stations, it was BEIGELBOCK's practice too to send those prisoners undermined by the experiments to the regular infirmary in order to conceal the number of deaths among the experimental subjects. The frequent letting of blood and the inefficiency with which this was done also led to severe damage. The experiments lasted about six weeks. During these experiments other scientists also came to Dachau occasionally. It was known to us prisoners that only these people participated in these experiments who, as proven National Socialists, had the confidence of Himmler's most immediate staff, for the additional sufferings of the patients created in connection with the experiments were so obvious as not to be reconcilable with a physician's conscience.
"On account of my position as responsible prisoner at the X-ray Station of the prisoners' infirmary, I was in a position to gain insight into the experimentation station which, however, could only be superficial since this experimental station was kept separated and especially guarded within the prisoners' infirmary. Just to give one example:
"A German political prisoners, a patient in the infirmary, observed from the window the occurrences at the low pressure chamber which was standing in the courtyard. He was taken out by Stabsarzt RASCHER, put into the chamber, and a few hours later his body was in the morgue.
"The experiments in Dachau were carried out there because no one was held responsible for the injury or death of the available people. Every attempt by prisoners, to avoid the experiments, also resulted in death. Therefore, even in the cases which did not result in permanent injuries, it was a matter of exploiting the hopeless position of the prisoners to carry out these criminal experiments."
"(Signature) JOSEF TSCHOFENIG" Police Main Office, Vienna State Police, Dep.
III I, Deutschmeisterplatz Vienna, 13 March 1946 Protocal Re: Seawater Research Mr. Fritz Pillwein, born 11 May 1919 in Vienna, a citizen of Vienna, single, no religion, student, residence:
Baumgasse 31/10, Vienna, states as follows:
Concerning the seawater research at the Luftwaffe Experimental Station at Dachau, I can say the following:
The experimentation station was in Block 5; however, the patients belonging to this station were in Block 1/1. The head of this experimentation station, Dr. Beigelbock, was known to me from Vienna, 9. I remember that gypsies of different nationalities from other concentration camps were used for these experiments. Forty-five of these were used directly in the experiments. Besides Dr. Beigelbock, an Unterarzt of North German descent, three chemists, as well as one French, 2 Alsatian, and one or two Spanish prisoners as laboratory assistants, were present at these experiments. The experiments were carried out from the middle of August until the end of September, 1944. I, myself, came to the station as a nurse about 10 days after the beginning of the experiments and remained there until the end of same. At the same time I was able to bring a second prisoner with me into the experimental station as an assistant nurse. His name is Joseph Worlicek and lives at the present time in Vienna, 18, Geymullergasse 2 4. He himself will surely be able to give further details about the experiments.
I cannot remember that there were any kind of visits from prominent personalities at the station at the time of my activity as nurse.
The experiments themselves were carried out in the following way: in the first three days the experimental subjects received sea distress care, consisting of one coco cola leaf, some Dextropur, several pieces of Zweiback (about 10-12 little pieces). From the first to the last day, the participants were given, besides this, salt water 4-5 times a day, in a total amount of 1/2 to 1 liter. The 44 people were sub-divided into 5 or 6 groups. Two groups received pure sea water, 2 other groups pure sea water with an added salt preparation, the remaining group received distilled sea water without addition. From the beginning, daily samples of blood tests were taken from the participants. With individual patients, the attacks of weakness and especially the thirst produced such crass effects that they could not leave their beds after only several days; I can remember one who broke into convulsive screaming. On several occasions these patients drank dirty water out of the pails of the attendants, as well as taking it in unguarded moments from the pails placed in the halls for air raids. While the floors were being washed, several patients sucked up the water that had been poured out on the floor. I had to weigh the participants daily and established the fact that the daily loss in weight amounted to as much as one kilo. After Dr. Beigelbock determined one day that several patients had drunk other liquids, the attendant nurse (a prisoner also) was put out of the infirmary. (This was a Jugoslavian who was doing night duty at the time).
When the people were chosen for these experiments, they were also promised better care for some time. In reality, this care was only accorded patients in the first group; all the others received water and skimmed milk for two days after the end of the experiment and about the third day were placed on the normal camp diet. The first group received some sausage, bread, butter, cheese, marmalade, and 2 cigaretts for 4 or 5 days.
I remember that disagreements arose between the camp administration and the competent authorities of the Luftwaffe since the Luftwaffe did not make sufficient provisions available for the diet. The ones who bore the brunt of this were naturally the participants.
We prisoners all knew that we would be used for such experiments also, just like other animals, for by such experiments the authorities at that time showed that they considered human beings at least on the same level as animals.
I know from hearsay from other experimental stations that many sacrifices of life were complained of. In most cases, the following measures were practiced: the patients were put back into the regular infirmary, in a very weakened and damaged condition, where they died after a short time. Further information can be given on this by a former fellow prisoner, Heinrich Stohr (Sudoten-German) who, to the best of my knowledge, has already been taken to the Nurnberg court.
read, approved & signed (V.g.g.)"
MR. HARDY: Signed by the Interrogator. At this time, we have completed the presentation of sea water experiments. On another occasion, at a later date, we will ask permission to call witness Fritz Pillwein. At present he is not available; we have been informed that he is in Munich, and that he will be here in a few days.
MR. McHANEY: Is the Tribunal prepared at this time to make a ruling with respect to the testimony of the witness Walter NEFF. It might be expedient to call him at this time.
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal is not prepared to rule upon the question of the testimony of the witness WALTER NEFF at this time.
MR. McHANEY: If the Tribunal please, we will at this time turn to the sterilization experiments, which are charged in Sub-Paragraph 6, "I" of Count 2, paragraph 11; and at Count 3 those who are charged with special responsibility for participation in the sterilization experiments are the defendants Karl Brandt, Gebhardt, Rudolph Brandt, Mrugowsky, Poppendick, Brack, Pokorny and Oberheuser.
The documents which will be produced at this time are contained in Document Book No. 6, before the Tribunal now.
I would like to make clear at the outset of this presentation, that we are here concerned with sterilizations which were carried out pursuant to German practice on that subject. It is true, that in Germany, a Statute did exist which permitted sterilizations of certain persons under certain circumstances: particularly, those persons infected with inheritable diseases. Some such statutes exist in other countries, as I understand it, and, indeed, in several states of the United States. At the end of the proof on the sterilization experiments, there will be no doubt in the Court's mind that the sterilizations with which we are now concerned had nothing whatsoever to do with the German Practice. These sterilizations were carried out against so-called "enemies" of the German State, especially Jewish, and people of the Eastern countries. The weapon of sterilization was in fact used to permit the Crime of Genicide, which is the mass extermination of an enemy people; and that was the purpose of the sterilizations with which we are here concerned.
The first document will be No. 430 -- no, pardon me -"No. 440, which will be Prosecution Exhibit No. 141. This is an affidavit by the defendant Rudolf Brandt, and it reads as follows:
(Reading) "I, Rudolf Emil Hermann Brandt, duly sworn do depose and state:
1. I am the same Rudolf BRANDT who already on 30 August 1946 furnished an affidavit concerning low pressure experiments which were conducted upon affidavit concerning low pressure experiments which were conducted upon inmates of the Dachau concentration camp. I further furnished certain other affidavits concerning medical experiments upon human beings.
2. For the same reasons, set forth in paragraph 1, 2 and 3 of my affidavit of 30 August 1946, I am in a position to draw up this affidavit concerning experiments on human beings.
Sterilization Experiments 3. HIMMLER was extremely interested in the development of a cheap and rapid sterilization method which could be used against enemies of Germany, such as the Russians, Poles and Jews.
One hoped, thereby not only to defeat the enemy but to exterminate him. The capacity for work of the sterilized persons could be exploited by Germany, while the danger of propagation would be eliminated. This mass sterilization was part of Himmler's racial theory; particular time and care were devoted to these sterilization experiments.
4. Surgical sterilization was of course known in Germany and applied. This includes castration. For mass application, however, this procedure was considered as too slow and too expensive. It was further desired that a procedure be found which would result in sterilization that was not immediately noticeable. Medical sterilization experiments were therefore conducted. Dr. MADAUS had discovered that the drug "caladium seguinum" extracted from a North-American plant (Schweigrohr) when taken or injected produced sterilization. Dr. Adolf POKORNY in late 1941 drew Himmler's attention to this scientific research and suggested that it be perfected and applied again Russian prisoners of war.
5. As a result of POKORNY's suggestion, experiments were conducted upon concentration camp prisoners in order to test the effect of the drug. Simultaneously, all efforts were made to cultivate the plant in large quantities. Oswald POHL, chief of the Economic and Administrative Main Office (WVHA) took a personal interest in this matter. Hothouses were used, with a certain amount of success, to cultivate this plant, and the experiments were continued. I don't believe, however, that it was possible to produce sufficient quantities of this drug to make a large-scale application possible.
6. Dr. GLAUBERG developed further a method for the sterilization of women. This method was based upon the injection of an irritating solution into tho uterus. GLAUBERG conducted widespread experiments on Jewish women and gypsies in the Auschwitz concentration camp. Several thousand women were sterilized by GLAUBERG in Auschwitz. Dr. Karl GEBHARDT apparently conducted surgical sterilization in the Ravensbrueck camp.
"7. Sterilization experiments were likewise conducted with X-rays. Dr. SCHUMANN applied this procedure in Auschwitz and sterilized a number of men.
"8. Dr. Karl BRANDT, Reich Physician SS Dr. GRAWITZ and Dr. GEBHARDT certainly were familiar with this sterilization matter. BLUMENREUTHER, POPPENDICK, and MRUGOWSKY probably had knowledge of it also.
(Signed) RUDOLF BRANDT".
This affidavit of the Defendant Rudolf Brandt gives us a short statement as to the broad scope of the program and we now proceed to the German document which give us more detailed information concerning it. Next will be Document Number NO-035 which will be Prosecution Exhibit 142. This is a letter sent by the Defendant POKORNY in October 1941 to Heinrich Himmler. It is addressed to the Reich Commissioner for the Consolidation of German Folkdom, SS Himmler, Chief of Police, Berlin:
"I beg you to turn your attention to the following arguments. I have requested Professor Hoehn to forward this letter to you. I have chosen this direct way to you in order to avoid the slower process through channels and the possibility of an indiscretion in regard to the eventually enormous importance of the ideas presented.
"Led by the idea that the enemy must not only be conquered but destroyed, I fell obliged to present to you, as the Reich Commissioner for the Consolidation of German Folkdom, the following:
"Dr. Madaus published the results of his research on a medicinal sterilization (both articles are enclosed). Reading these articles, the immense importance of this drug in the present fight of our people occurred to me. If, on the basis of this research, it were possible to produce a drug which after a relatively short time, effects an imperceptible sterilization on human beings, then we would have a new powerful weapon at our disposal. The thought alone that the 3 million Bolsheviks, at present German prisoners, could be sterilized so that they could be used as laborers but be prevented from reproduction, opens the most far reaching perspectives.
"Madaus found that the sap of the Schweigrohr (Caladium seguinum), when taken by mouth or given as injection to male but also to female animals, after a certain time produces permanent sterility. The illustrations accompanying the scientific article are convincing.
"If my ideas meet your approval the following course should be taken:
"1) Dr. Madaus must not publish any more such articles.
(The enemy listens!)
"2) Multiplying the plant (easily cultivated in greenhouses!)
"3) Immediate research on human beings (criminals!) in order to determine the dose and length of the treatment.
"4) Quick research of the constitutional formula of the effective chemical substance in order to "5) Produce it synthetically if possible.
"As German physician and Chief physician of the reserves of the German Wehrmacht, retired, I undertake to keep secret the purpose as suggested by me in this letter."
Heil Hitler!
(Signed) Dr. Pokorny Specialist for skin and venereal diseases."
The Defendant Pokorney will tell this Court a strange tale indeed with respect to this letter. I very much doubt that he will deny having written it and he, of course, cannot deny the subsequent proof that action was taken pursuant to his suggestion. He will, instead, insist that he was, in effect, doing the Russian prisoners of war and the Jews who were to be subjected to these abominable experiments, a good turn, that he had been told by SS men that these Russians and these Jews were to be exterminated and killed and that he, out of the goodness of his heart, conceived this idea of saving their lives. Instead of being annihilated they would be sterilized so that they could no longer produce children, be permitted to work in Germany and live out their lives.
That, in effect, will constitute the defense of Pokorney. I think if we put in no more evidence that surely the Defense could not get up and say that we are concerned in this case with sterilizations carried out pursuant to valid German Statute. But what happened as a result of this letter by the Defendant Pokorny? The subsequent documents give us an insight into that matter. Next will be Document Number NO-036, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 143. This is a letter from Heinrich Himmler to Oswald Pohl, dated 10 March 1942. Of course, as we have explained to the Tribunal, it is generally necessary to get in touch with Bear Pohl because he, after all was administratively in charge of the concentration camps; and so Himmler writes him this letter:
"Dear Pohl:
"I read Dr. Pokorny's very interesting memorandum and Dr. Madaus's publications on medicinal sterilization. I would ask you to get in touch with Dr. Madaus and to inform him, on my behalf, that he should not publish anything else on these questions of medicinal sterilization, and offer him possibilities of doing research -- in cooperation with the Reich Physician SS, on criminals, who would have to be sterilized in any case.
"The intended plan of research is, however, to be submitted to me by the office engaged on the subject."
"Heil Hitler!
Yours (signed) H. HIMMLER" A copy is sent to GRAWITZ and here we see the first stop taken in line with Pokorny's suggestion, first, that Madaus should be told not to publish any more articles and second, that research should begin and experiments be carried out on criminals.
We move along to Document Number NO-045, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 144. This is a letter dated 20 April 1942 from a member of Himmler's personal staff, the signature is illegible. It is to the Reich Physician SS care of SS Obersturmfuehrer Dr. SCHOPPER, Berlin: