The report referred to in the letter is attached and is part of the same exhibit 103, and it gives us a running account of the discussion between Dr. Grawitz; and who should be there but our defendant Dr. PoppendicK and Dr. Rascher. This is on the 13th of January 1943.
"Rascher: Reports on freezing experiments with water an emphasizes that they have been concluded practically, but not in theory.
"Grawtiz: Question about the memorandum: Whether Rascher believes this to be absolutely founded for dry freezings, too?
"Rascher: No, a lot of theoretical work is still to be done, primarily many practical experiments have still to be conducted.
"Grawitz: That is my opinion. We cannot distribute a memorandum to the troops, abolishing all former views, if this is not entirely well founded, as otherwise uncertainties will arise among the troops. I shall write to Obersturmbannfurhrer Dr. Brandt that I can asking the Reichsfuehrer-SS not to distribute the memorandum, before a well founded method of treatment of dry frozen persons has been established."
We have got that memorandum coming in somewhere, as I recall, and the Court will appreciate then precisely what they are talking about. Rascher had conducted some experiments on the effects of dry cold and the proper method of rewarming people who had been subjected to dry cold as compared to wet cold; and Grawitz is here questioning the recommendations that Rascher made in this memorandum and is insisting that perhaps he hasn't conducted enough experiments with dry cold to justify his conclusion that the same hot bath method is the proper way for rewarming. Rascher continues:
"Very well, that is the way the Reichsfuehrer gave me the order of 13 December 1942. But I urgently want to emphasize that the results of time freezing experiments with water have been established and are well founded.
"Grawitz: Well now, this had to be mentioned in my letter to Brandt so that you are not blamed in any way. You see, from my former activities (mention of some hospital) I know so much about metabolism that I am almost a specialist in this field and can help you enormously.
"Rascher: As I understood; Gruppenfuehrer; that's why I am to turn to your office for glass materials; chemicals; and so forth.
"Grawitz: No. Not only for that. You have to turn to me in all medical matters; since after all; I am Reich physician SS and all medical affairs are subordinate to me. It is absolutely necessary that all medical matters destined for the Reichsfuehrer go through my office.
"Rascher: I don't know, Gruppenfuehrer; if this was the intention. I am under the direct orders of the Reichsfuehrer-SS and I have always reported directly to him. I have never receive orders to another effect.
"Grawitz: You certainly will be transferred to the Waffen SS?
"Rascher: Yes, I hope so. The transfer is under way.
Grawitz: There you are. Then you will be under my orders as a physician at any rate end all matters will have to go through my office, otherwise the situation would be unbearable.
Rascher: But i am under the orders of the "Ahnenerbe". Am I to report to you, too, what I have to report to the "Ahnenerbe"?
Grawitz: Certainly. At least a copy on all medical matters has to be sent to me for my information. For it is an unbearable situation to have a non-physician, such as Standartenfuehrer Sievers, inform me on medical matters if he does not have the adequate special medical education. I have nothing against Sievers.-- Well, yes, I know you are of the "Ahnenerbe", I don't say anything against your work for the "Ahnenerbe", but I want you to work with the "Ahnenerbe" for the Reich Physician. I shall also write to Brandt in this matter."....
Finally Poppendick gets a word in.
"Poppendick: Well, I already had to ask Standartenfuehrer Sievers several times to come to me to receive information. In the long run all medical matters wind up with us anyway.
Grawitz: You see, this is the point. When the Reichsfuehrer-SS does not understand a medical matter clearly he hands the matter over to me anyway.
Rascher: Of course, I am grateful for every kind of help, but I believe that I an primarilu under the orders of the "Ahnenerbe".
Grawitz: Certainly not when you are a member of the Waffen-SS. I am able to make you profit very much by my knowledge and I shall inform Brandt to that effect. It isn't that I bear a grudge against you or your work, but all things have to follow their way. Don't be afraid, scientific thefts don't occur with us. As I know, you have to acquire the right of giving lectures at universities as a qualified academic teacher under Pfannenstiehl, And you will see support. Do you want to be supported by me?
Rascher: Of course, I think you most obediently. Where I need support, I gladly accept it.
Grawitz: Well, we shall wait then with the memorandum until you have a few hundred cases, then we shall continue. Of course, I would not like the Reichsfushrer-SS to believe that I want to impede you.
But if something has not yet been proved to a great extent, we can not distribute anything to the troops that might spread uncertainty among the responsible authorities. Everything may be true for freezing bey water, but we don't have these in the Waffen-SS. So you agree to wait with the distribution of the memorandum.
Rascher: Gruppenfuehrer, it is anyway entirely your affair, whether the memorandum is issued now, as you are responsible for it. I composed the memorandum on the basis of these few cases of dry freezing, because the Reichsfuehrer SS pressed for it's publication. In composing the memorandum, I was fully aware of the necessity that many experiments still had to be carried out, and I also submitted this view on the occasion of a discussion with the Reichsfuherer SS in Dachau. But the Reichsfuehrer saw the results in Dachau and just wanting to help the troops ordered the memorandum to be drawn up.
Grawitz: in composing a memorandum or in any other scientific work you should not let anybody press you, not even the Reichsfuehrer, that never will do. Well now, you'll send me a copy of all your medical correspondence with the "Ahnenerbe", you'll no longer write directly to the Reichsfuehrer in medical matters but write to me, as it comes to me anyway, will you do that?
Rascher: I'll have to discuss the matter with Standartenfuehrer Sievers first, this comes too much as a surprise.
Grawitz: Well, I shall send you a copy of my letter to Dr. Brandt so that you can get a clear picture. I have been very pleased, to have established such a close contact with you."
I would like to say, with respect to the defendant Poppendick, that if this letter does nothing else it clearly points out the fact that he was in reality subordinate to Dr. Grawitz (Reich physician SS) in medical matters. I have no doubt that he will urge upon the Tribunal that at this time, which is prior to the reorganization of 31 August 1943, that he was subordinate to Dr. Grawitz, Reich Physician SS in medical matters? I have no doubt that he will urge upon the Tribunal that at this time, which is prior to the reorganization on 31 Rugust 1943, that he was subordinated to Chief of Office for Race and Settlement in SS.
Of course, it is a fact that he was subordinated to that office for certain matters. That was the SS Office to which he was officially attached. However, shown upon the chart drawn by us the Chief Dr. Grawitz, as Reich Physician SS, had authority over Poppendick in medical matters. And this memorandum places him at a meeting with Grawitz and Rascher in January 1943 and they fully explored the past experiences on freezing experiments at Dachau and Grawitz insisted at great length that further experiments had to be carried out.
We come now to Doc. NO-238 which is Prosecution Exhibit 104. This takes us bake to the pulling match between the Luftwaffe and the SS over the valuable services of Dr. Rascher. This memorandum is from Sievers and it gives notes on the correspondence from the SS to the Luftwaffe, about conversation with Rascher in Munich 28 January 1943, and conversation with Rudolf Brandt on 29 January 1943, and it reads as follows:
"The Chief of the Luftwaffe Medical Service Generaloberstabsarzt Professor Dr. Hippke asked the SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher through his superior, Oberfeldarzt Dr. Daniel for an immediate report about what had been he working on since he had been made available for new assignment (Z.D.). The Oberfeldarzt Dr. Daniel permitted SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher to continue his experiments in Dachau. I suggested that SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher give a report approximately like this:
"I am continuing the experiments which were assigned to me by the Reichsfuehrer SS. I considered my 'Z.D' position as the first step to the transfer to the Waffen-SS which was discussed by the Reichsfuehrer-SS and General Field Marshal Milch."
As I learned (Dr. Rascher knows nothing about this) Generaloberstabsarzt Prof. Hippke said over the telephone (so that he probably could not be pinned down) when requesting the report: "Rascher's experiments ought to be stopped now. It is impossible to go on like that. Now we will remove him very quickly to the East ". As SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Dr. Rascher cannot continue his experiments at Dachau for the time being for well known reasons it was agreed that he should go on 7 February 1943 to SS-Sturmfuehrer Prof. Dr. Pfannenstiel in Marburg. Due to the interference of Generaloberstabsarzt Prof.
Dr. Hippke the process of admittance has become doubtful.
( signed ) Sievers " One copy went to the record.
The second copy went to SS-Obersturmbann fuchror Dr. Rudolf Brandt.
"With the request that measures be taken on the basis of the situation described in my letter of 12 January 1943."
Now the Tribunal heard the cross examination of the witness Lutz this morning in which certain of the defense counsels tried to draw out that Romberg and Ruff knew - everyone else connected with this clearly understood - they were volunteers, that the Nazis were giving them a big break, they were condemned to death, given life if they survived the experiment. They take the position that that should happen. If that line has any truth at all, why is Dr. Hippke, as stated in this memorandum, upset by certain of Rascher's experiments, if these people were condemned to death, if treated in a good and kind way, why is the reason to be ashamed about them. The reason is perfectly obvious. The high officials of the Luftwaffe realized very well what had gone on. There is not doubt there were there alone the way twinges of consciousness expressed in the document which they wrote at that time but never were they so conscious stricken that they stopped the experiments they conducted from the time Rascher started early in 1942, through the freezing experiments, which require passage through low pressure chamber, or through the sea water experiments at Dachau.
Recess was taken.
THE MARSHAL : The Tribunal is again in session.
MR.McHaney: May it please the Tribunal, the next document will be Document 1616-PS. This will be Prosecution Exhibit 105.
I wish to point out to the Tribunal in this connection that 1616 PS as it appears in your document book on page 120 is noted as being continued. That is a report on the rewarming by animal warmth. Eliminated from the English document book by mistake wa a covering letter, to which the re-warming report was attached. Both the covering letter and the attached report are Document 1616-PS, and both are offered as Prosecution Exhibit 105. The German document books, which went to the German Counsel, did contain both the letter and the report, and the omission of this English translation was simply a mistake when the document book was assembled.
We got some indication that experiments with dry cold, as distinguished from experiments with wet or water cold, were carried out in Dachau from one of the previous exhibits which gave us a transcript of the discussion between Rascher, Grawitz and Poppendick. This letter describes in a little more detail precisely what they did in these dry cold experiments. This is a letter dated 17 February 1943 from Rascher to his" Dear Reichsfuehrer":
"Enclosed I present to you in condensed from a summary of the result of the experiments made in applying animal warmth to people who have been intentionally chilled. Right now I am attempting to prove through experiments on human beings that it is possible to warm up people chilled by exposure to dry cold, just as fast as people who were chilled by means of continued immersion in cold water. The Reichs Physician SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz doubted very much whether that would be possible and said that I would have to prove it first by one hundred experiments. Up to the present, I have carried out intense chilling experiments on thirty human beings by leaving them outdoors naked from 0900 to 1400 hours, thereby reducing their body temperature to 27 degrees Centigrade to 29 degrees Centigrade. After an interval which was supposed to correspond to the period of transportation lasting one hour, I have placed those experiments up to the present, all subjects, despite the fact that hands and feet were partly frozen white, were successfully re-warmed within another hour Only some subjects showed slight lassitude, with slight rise of temperature, on the day following the experiment.
No fatalities occurred as a result of this extraordinarily rapid method of re-warming.
"Unfortunately I could not yet carry out the re-warming by means of Sauna, as was ordered by you, my dear Reichsfuehrer. The weather during December and January was too warm for such experiments outdoors, and at present the camp is quarantined on account of typhus, so that I was not permitted to bring the experimental subjects into the SS Sauna. I have had myself inoculated several times, and I am continuing these experiments in spite of the presence of typhus in the camp.
"The best thing would be if I and Neff, as soon as I am transferred to the Waffen SS, could go to Auschwitz where I could clear up the question of re-warming people frozen on dry land in a large serial experiment. Auschwitz is, in every way, more suitable for such a large serial experiment than Dachau because it is colder there and the greater extent of open country within the camp would make the experiments less conspicuous. The experimental subjects yell when they freeze severely.
"If it is your intention, Highly Honored Reichsfuehrer, to carry out with the utmost speed these experiments which are so important for the army fighting on land in Ruschwitz or Lublin or another concentration camp in the East, I beg you obediently to give me the necessary orders so that the remaining winter cold can still be utilized.
"With most obedient greetings and sincere gratitude, and Heil Hitler, your very devoted Rascher."
Did your Honors receive a copy of this?
THE PRESIDENT: No.
MR. MC HANEY: If Mr. Travis will pass them up to you -
This letter should be inserted in The document book just in front of page 120.
THE PRESIDENT: This letter will be page 119-A.
MR. MC HANEY: The reference in this document to "Sauna" refers to a bath.
The SS-Sauna must be to a bath house in Dachau.
The report which was attached to this letter and which is part of this Prosecution Exhibit 105 is most interesting. He have already put in the documents in which the four women were requested for the purpose of re-warming by animal warmth, and we now got this report on that subject.
It is entitled: "Experiments for re-warming of intensely chilled human beings by animal warmth.
"A. The purpose of the experiment: To ascertain whether the re-warming of intensely chilled human beings by animal warmth, for example, the warmth of animals or human beings, is as good or better then re-warming by physical or medical means.
" B. Method of the experiments: The experimental subjects were cooled in the usual way, clad or unclad, in cold water of temperatures varying between for degrees Centigrade and nine degrees Centigrade. The rectal temperature of every experimental subject was recorded therme-electrically. The reduction of temperature occurred within the usual span of time, varying in accordance with the general condition of the body of the experimental subject and the temperature of the water. The experimental subjects were removed from the water when their rectal temperature reached 30 degrees Centigrade. At this time the experimental subjects had all lost consciousness. In eight cases the experimental subjects were then placed between two naked women in a spacious bed. The women were supposed to nestle as closely as possible to the chilled person. Then all throe persons were covered with blankets. The speeding up of re-warming by light cradles or by medicines was not attempted.
"C. Results:
1. When the temperature of the experimental subjects was recorded it was striking that an after-drop of temperature up to 3°C occurred, which is a greater after-drop than that seen with any other method of rewarming. It was observed, however, that consciousness returned at an earlier point, that is a lower body temperature than with other methods of rewarming. Once the subjects regained consciousness they did not lose it again, but very quickly grasped the situation and smuggled up to the naked female bodies. The rise of body temperature then occurred at about the same speed as in experimental subjects who had been rewarmed by packing in blankets. Exceptions were four experimental subjects who, at body temperatures between 30°C and 32°C, performed the act of sexual intercourse. In these experimental subjects the temperature rose very rapidly after sexual intercourse, which could be compared with the speedy rise in temperature in a hot bath.
"2. Another set of experiments concerned the rewarming of intensely chilled persons by one woman. In all these cases rewarming was significantly quicker than could be accomplished by two women. The cause of this seems to me that in warming by one woman only, personal inhibitions arc removed, and the woman nestles up to the chilled individual much more intimately. Also in these cases, the return of complete consciousness was strikingly rapid. Only one experimental subject did not return to consciousness and the warming effect was only slight. This person died with symptoms suggesting cerebral hemorrhage, as was confirmed by subsequent autopsy.
"D. Summary:
Rewarming experiments of intensely chilled experimental subjects demonstrated that rewarming with animal warmth was very slow, only such experimental subjects whose physical condition permitted sexual intercourse rewarmed themselves remarkably quickly, and showed an equally strikingly rapid return of complete physical well-being. Since excessively long exposure of the body to low temperatures implies danger of central damage, that method must be chosen for rewarming which guarantees the quickest relief from dangerously low temperatures. This method, according to our experiences, is massive and rapid supply of warmth by means of a hot bath.
"Rewarming of intensely chilled human beings by human or animal warmth can therefore be recommended only in such cases in which other possibilities for rewarming are not available, or in cases of specially ten or individuals who possibly may not be able to stand a massive and rapid supply of warmth. As for example, I am thinking of intensely chilled small children, who are best rewarmed by the body of their mothers, with the aid of hot water bottles.
"Dachau, 12 February 1943.
(Signed) DR.S. RASCHER" The Court will see on the following pages of this well nigh unbelievable document charts which graphically show the rewarming of these frozen victims by women.
That is to say, by two women. They give an average figure for different rewarmings in which they compare rewarming by packing in blankets, rewarming with two women, rewarming with one woman, and rewarming with one woman where sexual intercourse occurred.
We move now to Document No. NO-268 which will be Prosecution Exhibit 106. This is a letter from Dr. Hippko who, according to the information furnished by the defendant Sievers in his memorandum and letters, was suffering some tinge of conscience because of the experiments at Dachau and he here is writing to the Reichsfuehrer on the 19th of February 1913. I want to ask the Court to observe the file number on this document where it will see the code letters 2 II B, and I call to your attention a gain that refers to the Department for Aviation Medicine which was, as that time, headed by Dr. Anthony with his assistant, the defendant Becker-Freyseng.
"Reichsfuehrer":
"The experiments conducted in Dachau concerning protective measures against the effects of freezing on the human body by immersion in cold water have lead to results of practical use. They were conducted by the Stabsacrzte of the Luftwaffe Professor Dr. Holzloehner, Dr. Finke and Dr. Rascher in coorperation with who SS, and are now finished. The result was reported upon by those who worked on them during a conference on medical problems arising from distress at sea and winter hardships on 26 and 27 October 1912 in Nurenberg. The detailed report on the conference is a present in state of preparation.
"I thank you most gratefully for the great assistance that cooperation of the SS has meant for us in conducting the experiments, and beg you to express our thanks, too, to the commander of the Dachau camp.
"Heil Hitler !
Prof. Dr. Hippke" The Court will have occasion, when we come to the introduction of evidence on the sea water experiments, to read a letter written and signed by the defen dant Schroeder which he wrote to Himmler in the middle of 1944 again asking, on behalf of the Luftwaffe, for human experimental subjects in order that the experiments to render sea water drinkable could be carried out and in that letter, as your Honors will see, will appear language somewhat similar to that used by Dr. Hippke in this letter, and, in addition, the defendant Schroeder stated that Himmler had been most helpful on similar occasions, obviously referring to these experiments carried out in Dachau.
We turn now to Document NO 1580-PS which will be Prosecution Exhibit 107. If your Honors please, the translation appearing in your document book at Page 128 contains two letters. We are not here concerned with the letter at the button carrying the date May 2, 1941. In looking at that letter you will remember that it wont into evidence under the proof on the low pressure experiments and it carried the document No. 1582-PS. I do not recall the Exhibit number. In any event, it is just an instance of the same document being registered under two numbers and here they have coupled up two documents under 1580-PS. Actually going into evidence is the letter of 26 February 1943, So, if you will simply strike out the translation at the bottom of Page 128 and on 129 then your book will be accurate. The bottom letter, I am informed, wont in as Prosecution Exhibit 46.
This is a letter from Heinrich Himmler to Rascher dated 26 February 1943:
"Dear Rascher;
"Best thanks for your letter of 17 February with report on warming-up cxperiments. I agree to experiments being made at Auschwitz or Lublin, although I believe that the time for the cooling-off and warming-up tests under natural conditions of cold weather has nearly passed for this winter.
"I am sending this letter at the same time to SS Obergruppenfuchrer Pehl, whom I request to order the execution of your experiments at Lublin or Auschwitz.
"Kind greetings and Heil Hitler ! Your A. Himmler".
This letter is in response to the warming-up report which I read into evidence under Prosecution Exhibit 105, and you will note that Himmler is expressing the same fear that we found in the defendant Sievers a few moments ago in stating that it was felt that Rascher's experiments would be delayed beyond the proper time of cold weather so that he could not carry out his dry cold experiments. We are coming to a documenting a few moments which will indicate that neither the deceased Dr. Himmler or the defendant Sievers were disappointed: in that respect.
We come now to Document NO-262 which will be Prosecution Exhibit 108, and here again we find that the real difficulty between the Luftwaffe and the SS over the valuable services of Dr. Rascher was not because of the feeling on the part of the Luftwaffe that these experiments (should not have been carried out on living human beings, but that it was simply a matter of professional jealousy between the people who worked on these experiments and a problem of which organization was to receive credit for these valuable experiments. This letter is from Professor Dr. Hippke, Chief of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe, dated 6 March 1943, addressed to "Dear Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff" whom your Honors will recall was the liaison officer between the SS end the Luftwaffe with respect to Rascher's experiments.
"The State Secretary Milch has given me your letter of 21 November of the last year - Diary No. 1426/42 top secret - regarding the release of the Stabsarzt of the Luftwaffe, Dr. Rascher to the Waffen-SS.
"I am prepared to release the Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher from the Luftwaffe, even after the Reich Physician of the SS, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz, explained to me that he could not find any substitute; I shall put him at the disposal of the Waffen-SS if Rascher himself desires this releases. I shall ask him about that.
"Your conception that I, as the responsible director of all Medical-scientific research work, would have been opposed to the chilling experiments on human beings, and so retarded their development is erroneous. I immediately agreed to the experiments because our own previous work experiments on large animals were concluded and supplementary work was necessary. It is also highly improbable that I, in that I am responsible for the development of all types of possibilities for rescuing our flyers would not do everything possible to further such works. When Rascher in his time explained his wishes to me, I agreed with him immediately. The difficulties, Mr. Wolff, lie in an entirely different sphere: it is a question of vanity on the part of individual scientists, every one of whom personally wants to bring out new research results, and very often it is only with great effort that they can be led to work unselfishly for the common good. None of them is without guilt in this respect; Rascher is not either.
"If Rascher wants to build up his own research institute within the framework of the Waffen-SS, I have not objection. All research work within the field of aviation medicine - that is, altitude - moreover, is under my scientific supervision in my capacity as director of German aviation medicine. This institute would then be under the supervision of the Reich Physician of the SS, SS-Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz.
"Momentarily, however, this work cannot be carried on because its continuation would require a low pressured chamber, in which not only the altitude of the stratosphere, but also the stratospheric temperature can be established, but there is no such chamber available in Germany as yet: It is just being guilt as a general chamber in the frame-work of the new Research Institute for Aviation Medicine of Berlin, and I hope I shall be able to have it completed in the course of this your.
If Rascher, on the other hand, wishes to conduct other experiments, not concerned with altitude and chilling problems, these would not be under supervision (Aviation medicine) but under the supervision of military medicine, whom he would have to contact.
"I am going to talk ever all these problems with Rascher in old comradeship, and I shall again notify you".
"With kind regards and Heil Hitler!""Hippke".Now, there are at least two interesting points about this letter, one of which is Hippke's explanation of the apparent difficulties between contain members of the Luftwaffe Medical Service and Dr. Rascher, and Hippke himself puts it on the ground of professional jealousy.
May I suggest to the Court that that is certainly a sufficient explanation of the difficulties which Dr. Weltz, the defendant in this dock, will have you believe existed between him and Rascher, and that is the explanation of these difficulties, rather than any compunction on the part of the defendant Weltz, as to these experiments.
Secondly, Hippke here indicates that any problems concerning aviation medicine come within the jurisdiction of the Medical Service of the Luftwaffe. He states that if Rascher wishes to conduct experiments not concerned with aviation medicine then he comes under the jurisdiction of military medicine, and the German words there are given, "Hocressanitactsp ektion" which, if Your Honor please, refers to the position occupied by the defendant Handloser at this time. He was Chief of the Army Medical Inspectorate.
I turn now to document 1615-PS, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 109. This is a letter written by the defendant Rudolf Brandt to Dr. Grawitz on 9 March 1943.
"Dear Gruppenfuehrer: I wish to inform you very briefly, that Reich Fuehrer SS on February 26, 1943 authorized SS Captain Dr. Rascher to make warming experiments in Auschwitz or Lublin. Of course, considering the warm weather, the time for cooling and warming experiments under natural temperature conditions would not be possible in that proportion".
This letter, of course, refers back to the conference had between Dr. Rascher on the one hand and Grawitz and the defendant Poppendick on the other, and Brandt ishere advising him that further dry cold experiments will take place as requested by Grawitz raid his assistant, Poppendick.
The next document is NO-270, which will be Prosecution Exhibit 110. This consists of a cover letter from Dr. Rascher to the defendant Rudolf Brandt, enclosing a running account of a talk Rascher had with Hippke. The letter is dated 14 March 1943.
"Dear Obersturmbannfuehrer, on 12 March I was ordered to a conference with Generaloberstabsarzt Prof. Dr. Hippke. The inspector was extremely friendly. I had the impression that tho whole affair was painful to him. For your information I enclose a short description of the conversation. This description is by no means a complete one despite the fact that I took down notes immediately after the conference. I would like to emphasize the Inspector's unusual amiability and caution in all expressions concerning the SS.
"May I respectfully ask you to inform the Reichsfuchrer SS of the report in so far as this appeals necessary to you.
"May I also ask you, if you do not mind, to inform Kauptsturmfuehrer Heckenstaller since as far as I know he worked on my transfer by order of Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff.Signed Rascher".
The report is part of the same exhibit, and is dated 14 March 1943.
"Report on the conference between Generaloberstabsarzt Prof. Dr. Hippke and Stabsarzt Dr. Rascher on 12 March 1943 in Berlin. The course of the discussion can be described in its meaning only, not literally, since the conference lasted for 3/4 of an hour.
"Very friendly welcome by Prof. Hippke. Immediately after that the question, who desired the transfer to the Waffen-SS, and who suggested it, "Rascher: Suggested and desired by the Reichsfuehrer SS as well as by myself. I, too, have submitted a transfer request through the official Luftwaffe channels.
"Hippke: Sl then it is true. Why do you really want to leave the Luftwaffe? I give you every opportunity to work in the scientific field, and with us you will be backed by the solidarity of the entire medical officers' corps of the Luftwaffe. Besides, we have the necesary experience in treating medical problems connected with aviators. The SS cannot possibly be interested in these questions.
"Rascher: But the Reichsfuehrer SS does not desire at all to have these tasks carried out for the benefit of the SS alone, he expressed himself to that effect that the tasks shall be accomplished and the results shall be really made available to all interested agencies on the most rapid way.
"Hippke: We can maintain this connection with the SS also if you stay with the Luftwaffe. I hereby request you to stay with the medical corps of the Luftwaffe.
"Rascher: I beg to submit respectfully that in as far as I am concerned, the decision about this has already been taken.
"Hippke: But in this case you must realize that the medical officer's corps of the Luftwaffe will no longer solidly back you up and that you have to expect scientific enmitics and perhaps even a bitter fight in the scientific field with individual gentlemen specially reservists, who brought along from private life their scientific manners. But even if you no longer belong to my officers, you will always have my full support. I wish that even later on we continue to work together. For instance, I would like to see that you carry out together with Romberg the rescue from highest altitudes and that you go even higher than 21.000 meters. For this case some two-stage device should be procured some way for the low pressure car. Further, I would desire that in your experiments on human beings, you would combine the altitude experiments with the cold experiments.
"Rascher: I proposed this to you already in July of last year and the Reichsfuehrer SS for his part has also submitted this proposal to Marshall Hilch. Unfortunately nothing resulted from intervention so far.
"Hippke: How embarrasing this question must have as caped my notice at that time (he takes down some notes) as already said you see there are numerous problems and you are going to be really overburdened with scientific matters. I do not let you go readily and this I emphasize again. Would you not thin it over again for four weeks."
"RASCHER: For this it was too late, I asked for my part too to be transferred.
"HIPPKE: This could be canceled. I call your attention to the fact that with the Luftwaffe i can offer you very good possibilities for your promotion. You do not yet know your advancement with the SS, do you already know in which capacity you are going to be taken over? You are now Hauptsturmfuehrer, I suppose?
"RASCHER: I do not know how I am going to be taken over, but I have full confidence in my future with the SS where efficiency is what matters.
"HIPPKE: But this is certainly the case with us too, think it over whether you go, I request you again to stay here".
When I told Hippke during the further course of the conversation how the work is done at my place, he was very surprised and said, " Well, you built up an independent institute for yourself and so you are leader of the institute".
Hippke mentioned also that Gruppenfuehrer Grawitz did not want to furnish a substitute for me, no, nobody at all, not to speak of a medical officer trained in scientific matters. In conclusion Professor Doctor Hippke said, trained in scientific matters. In conclusion Professor Doctor Hippke said, leaving when you are transferred. Most friendly dismissal. Postscript: Professor Hippke offered me the possibility of publishing the results hitherto obtained in an Luftwaffe periodical. It was certainly not clear whether the SS could make accesible to me a periodical in which I could publish. He was afraid I could suffer from the competition between physicians of the Luftwaffe and SS physicians. I would like to mention that in connection with the hostility to be expected on the part of genuine Luftwaffe physicians Professor Hippke said" in this case you have of course the SS behind you - and this is a powerful factor!"
The court will see that the defendant Romberg is again mentioned in connection with Rascher at this late date when Hippke suggested that his subordinate, Romberg, in the Institute of DVL, cooperate still further in the murderous experiments conducted at Dachau.
The next Document is No. 292 which will be Prosecution's Exhibit No. 111. This is a letter from Rascher to defendant Rudolf Brandt. It is a letter dated 4 April 1943.
"Much esteemed Obersturmbannfuehrer!
"Enclosed you will find acknowledgment of the receipt of the letter"-of such and such a date -- " secret. In the meantime you have perhaps had the opportunity of placing over the note concerning the Rascher-Hippke conference. The conference described in it took place approximately as Generaloberstatsarzt Dr. Hippke outlined it in his letter to SS Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff. There is only one thing that I repudiate: the reproach of scientific vanity. I will gladly and immediately put the results of any research at the disposal of any person who can use them in a proper way. As is to be seen in the report about the conference, I clearly communicated this to Hippke, even before I had knowledge of the letter which I have just received. If, however, certain -gentelmen-without making sure beforehand-- would like to present my results as unliely, that is their business.
Also Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz doubted only the possibility of forced quick warning of frozen persons--though he could easily have had the opportunity to verify the correctness of my statement.!
"The question of the saving of people frozen in the open air has in the meantime been cleared up, since, thank goodness there was once again a period of heavy frost weather in Dachau. Certain people were in the open air for 14 hours at -6° Centigrade, reached an internal temperature of 25 degrees Centigrade, with peripheral freezings, and could all be saved by a hot bath. As I said, it is easy to contradict. But before someone does so, he should come and see. Moreover, a report about freezing in the open air will be sent to the Reichsfuehrer in the next few days.
"With best wishes" Signed "S.Rascher."
Document No. 240 will be Prosecution's Exhibit No. 112. Again, it is a letter from Rascher. This time to Himmler, and is dated 11 April 1943.
"Dear Reichsfuehrer!
"Enclosed I beg to submit a brief report concerning freezing experiments on human beings exposed to the open air.
"Early in May I hope to be in a position, dear Reichsfuehrer; to submit to you my habilitation thesis. SS Obersturmbannfuehrer; Professor Dr. Pfannenstiel of Marburg is prepared to use and accept it as secret thesis of habilitation.
"Do you want me to send copy of the enclosed report to the Reich Physician SS?
"With most devoted greetings and Heil Hitler I am always your obedient and grateful - S. Rascher."
Unfortunately we do not have a copy of this freezing report which is mentioned in the letter.
We come now to Document No. 241, which will be Prosecution's Exhibit No. 113. The letter is dated 16 April 1943. It is addressed to "Dear Conrado Rascher," by the defendant Rudolf Brandt.
"The Reichsfuehrer SS has received the report concerning the freezing experiments on human beings exposed to the open air, and thanks you for transmitting same.
"Kindly contact SS Gruppenfuehrer Professor Gebhardt who received from Reichsfuehrer SS your report for study. Please ask SS-Gruppenfuehrer Gebhardt personally at Hohenlychen wien your visit would suit him.
"Also sen copy of the report to the Reich physician SS.
"I take the opportunity of confirming receipt of your letter of April 4, 1943.
"Cordial greetings and Heil Hitler!
"Yours Rudolf Brand."
Here again we see the name of Gebhardt mentioned; as it appears even before that of Reich physician Doctor Grawitz.
The next Document is No. 322, which will be Prosecution's Exhibit No. 114. This letter is by Rascher to SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Keindl, who was the commander of the Sachenshausen Concentration Camp near Oranienburg which is just above Berlin.